Joao Carvalho

[Strawberry Avenger]

One of the only players who looked like he wanted to create anything last night. Lolley did one of his great disappearing acts after 5 mins.
But we all know Carvalho won’t start on Saturday because his name isn’t Murphy, Osborn or Lolley.

Perhaps a few disappeared last night.

Problem is.  If Car' disappears it's like playing with ten men.  If Car' can't get stuck in and make a threat for us, defending higher up the pitch then Colback has sort McGinn on his own.  (what it seemed like last night and he got done for the 1st goal...but what about higher up the pitch.  I don't recall hearing Car's name much at all last night.)

I don't think it was right to start Car' or Ani' to be honest.

I'd have kept them as super subs and made Forest defensively stronger for the 1st half.  Villa put it all into that.  They gambled and won.

SA.

Gueddy should have started yesterday (instead of Carv) and see how it goes. We needed to wear them down for a half and if we managed to remain unscatted, then bring on Carv for the second half or part of it. What we did yesterday was, put back Carvs `good` performance against Hull in the bin, and we are back to square one with him ... probability is that he will return on the bench...until further notice...

In short.  I agree.  ON both counts.  

SA.  :cool:

[wassy04]

One of the only players who looked like he wanted to create anything last night. Lolley did one of his great disappearing acts after 5 mins.
But we all know Carvalho won’t start on Saturday because his name isn’t Murphy, Osborn or Lolley.

Perhaps a few disappeared last night.

Problem is.  If Car' disappears it's like playing with ten men.  If Car' can't get stuck in and make a threat for us, defending higher up the pitch then Colback has sort McGinn on his own.  (what it seemed like last night and he got done for the 1st goal...but what about higher up the pitch.  I don't recall hearing Car's name much at all last night.)

I don't think it was right to start Car' or Ani' to be honest.

I'd have kept them as super subs and made Forest defensively stronger for the 1st half.  Villa put it all into that.  They gambled and won.

SA.

Did you watch the game? Blaming carvalho and saying he went missing is completely ignoring what happened. For the record carvalho had more tackles/duels (not sure what that means) than lolley. More /better success rate of passes than lolley and Yates/Pele infact. As well as more runs than lolley. In fact he was our best attacking player on the night

[wassy04]

Just because he’s an academy player Yates should be treated the same he was poor in what is not his position. This amongst other things was why they dominated midfield not carvalho. Not blaming anyone really justdidnt have any other options with injuries/suspension. Was Yates or goncalves in the wing!

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

One of the only players who looked like he wanted to create anything last night. Lolley did one of his great disappearing acts after 5 mins.
But we all know Carvalho won’t start on Saturday because his name isn’t Murphy, Osborn or Lolley.

Perhaps a few disappeared last night.

Problem is.  If Car' disappears it's like playing with ten men.  If Car' can't get stuck in and make a threat for us, defending higher up the pitch then Colback has sort McGinn on his own.  (what it seemed like last night and he got done for the 1st goal...but what about higher up the pitch.  I don't recall hearing Car's name much at all last night.)

I don't think it was right to start Car' or Ani' to be honest.

I'd have kept them as super subs and made Forest defensively stronger for the 1st half.  Villa put it all into that.  They gambled and won.

SA.

Did you watch the game? Blaming carvalho and saying he went missing is completely ignoring what happened. For the record carvalho had more tackles/duels (not sure what that means) than lolley. More /better success rate of passes than lolley and Yates/Pele infact. As well as more runs than lolley. In fact he was our best attacking player on the night

If that is true Wassy and I have no reason to doubt you, then we really do have problems because he never bothered the Villa defence once all night.

[wassy04]

He did that one cruyff turn that put karim through...well yeah neither did anyone really hence the loss. We did look good on set pieces, the goal disallowed was an excellent cross from everyone’a favourite number 10

Also this was purely stats based off the TLS football app. No idea I’d accuracy/validity but I thought it at least proved he didn’t deserve to be singled out for criticism. Not expecting him to start Sat I assume we’ll go back 451

[Alf]

Yep I agree the criticism here is the odd decision for a rebuilding team to invest the majority of its budget in a player that will take time to develop.

The ones that don't need developing won't be coming to Forest.
They go straight to the Premier leagues.

We got lucky with Lolley, Antonio and BA09 over the past few years in signing game changers who didn't need development on the cheap.
We have more failures in that regard than successes.

On the premise of a 4-2-3-1 formation JC was bought to build the team around.
Not to lead it from day 1, he was always going to need a season to adapt and learn.
Now we've got people comparing him to JR and criticizing him for it.
At the same age JR was a struggling winger in a relegated div 2 team and I doubt anywhere close to being as good as JC.

Should we have bought another Majewski for 500k instead?

They will for £13m .

Antonio & Lolley are perfect examples of what's available if we look hard enough, instead of letting agents dictate who to buy.

There's no doubting Carva's class & potential, but last night was a prime example of when he should have turned a game in our favour out of nothing. Shock horror, he didn't.

[wassy04]

Just because he’s an academy player Yates should be treated the same he was poor in what is not his position. This amongst other things was why they dominated midfield not carvalho. Not blaming anyone really justdidnt have any other options with injuries/suspension. Was Yates or goncalves in the wing!

Being an academy player means you're free, gratis, £0, & so you can just be popped back into the oven for a little bit longer, or flogged off for a profit, there's always an upside, but, yes, that was Ryan's worst match so far, & shows he has developing to do yet, as you'd expect.

Ha I seem to have developed a role of villain calling out the academy players when they’re overrated! (The opposite to you!) i think it was due to his position last night rather than anything else.

As discussed carv has this price tag so he needs more defence as he hasn’t got the academy aspect to fall back on. I just don’t like lazy criticism because we’ve lost there’s an assumption that’s carv automatically was bad whereas they were all bad and he was probably least bad!

[wassy04]

Yep I agree the criticism here is the odd decision for a rebuilding team to invest the majority of its budget in a player that will take time to develop.

The ones that don't need developing won't be coming to Forest.
They go straight to the Premier leagues.

We got lucky with Lolley, Antonio and BA09 over the past few years in signing game changers who didn't need development on the cheap.
We have more failures in that regard than successes.

On the premise of a 4-2-3-1 formation JC was bought to build the team around.
Not to lead it from day 1, he was always going to need a season to adapt and learn.
Now we've got people comparing him to JR and criticizing him for it.
At the same age JR was a struggling winger in a relegated div 2 team and I doubt anywhere close to being as good as JC.

Should we have bought another Majewski for 500k instead?

They will for £13m .

Antonio & Lolley are perfect examples of what's available if we look hard enough, instead of letting agents dictate who to buy.

There's no doubting Carva's class & potential, but last night was a prime example of when he should have turned a game in our favour out of nothing. Shock horror, he didn't.

I disagree with this (shock) I think this is the kind of game where we needed strong defensive players to take control ankeep the ball/calm everyone down. The hull game was the perfect example of where’s carv sshould make the difference ie a game where we aren’t the better side and should be winning.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

So in answer to the question in the original post.

Is Carvalho our secret weapon?

Sadly no, he is not, based on the evidence we have seen since the original post was made.

[Strawberry Avenger]

So in answer to the question in the original post.

Is Carvalho our secret weapon?

Sadly no, he is not, based on the evidence we have seen since the original post was made.

No.  Sadly not.

Not everything in life works out.  It happens.

Take what money we can get for him and show the same level of prudence that uncovered our two CHs this latter Jan' window.

There's gold out there.  It doesn't have to cost £13.5 million for unproven talent.  That's a 1st team worth of money right there.

SA.

[the jock]

sell him with a big sell on clause in the hope we might get more some day.

hes not suitable for rough and tough of the championship in a cold and wet december when Preston are kicking you on the pitch.

[wassy04]

Bit early to be writing him off, he’s only a kid. No one has written Yates off and he’s been rubbish last few games. Just because he didn’t come from our academy. Foreign players very often have a big jump in their second season in England once they’ve had time to adapt to the climate, tempo etc. Patience