Joao Carvalho

[Alf]

As our most expensive signing ever I would expect him to be leading the way. When you look at previous record signing such as Francis, Teddy, Stanley and PVH then I think there’s more of a perspective and it seems MON would agree. I totally agree we can’t have three defensive midfielders selected every week otherwise we’ll become very predictable but so long as Cavalhro goes missing for 85 minutes each week he won’t be in the team.

Cisco, great point but Bowyer, Anderson, O’Neill and Barrett (?) were all struggling prior to Sir Brian’s arrival, then suddenly they were part of the best team in Europe. Let’s hope MON can spark our man in the same way Brian sparked them. It’s in Cavalho’s hands but he must embrace the wider game and not just when he’s got the ball.

He may be our most expensive signing but relative to what.
Francis was also the most expensive signing ever, equivalent to Neymar to PSG. 
The two cannot be compared.
That's how much the finished product costs nowadays.
13 million is peanuts in the grand scale.

But the grand scaled shows us as a club which 13m isn't peanuts for.

I'm totally with Woody on this. A record transfer should be leading the way, not being developed. Prem clubs may spend 13m on potential, but the core team is usually made up of 20m+ players. Our most expensive signings should be ones which make the difference every week between winning & losing like PVH used to.

That's not a slate on Carva as a player or blaming him for it. It's criticism of how poorly we've thought through our resource allocation. Had we landed a quality striker + winger as well I wouldn't have any qualms, but we didn't and it's left us chancers not certainties.

[Maltared]

First class response Alf...

[wassy04]

Yep I agree the criticism here is the odd decision for a rebuilding team to invest the majority of its budget in a player that will take time to develop.

[McDurban]

Yep I agree the criticism here is the odd decision for a rebuilding team to invest the majority of its budget in a player that will take time to develop.

The ones that don't need developing won't be coming to Forest.
They go straight to the Premier leagues.

We got lucky with Lolley, Antonio and BA09 over the past few years in signing game changers who didn't need development on the cheap.
We have more failures in that regard than successes.

On the premise of a 4-2-3-1 formation JC was bought to build the team around.
Not to lead it from day 1, he was always going to need a season to adapt and learn.
Now we've got people comparing him to JR and criticizing him for it.
At the same age JR was a struggling winger in a relegated div 2 team and I doubt anywhere close to being as good as JC.

Should we have bought another Majewski for 500k instead?

[McDurban]

On the premise of a 4-2-3-1 formation JC was bought to build the team around.
Not to lead it from day 1, he was always going to need a season to adapt and learn.

There only ever was a one season plan this season, promotion.

He was bought to be a central part of that (he was our only #10), therefore he was quite clearly expected to be delivering from day one, not in a season or two.

At the same age JR was a struggling winger in a relegated div 2 team and I doubt anywhere close to being as good as JC.

Then you'd doubt wrong

Well he couldn't get past me and I was three.  :D

[TheGreenMan]

One of the only players who looked like he wanted to create anything last night. Lolley did one of his great disappearing acts after 5 mins.
But we all know Carvalho won’t start on Saturday because his name isn’t Murphy, Osborn or Lolley.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

One of the only players who looked like he wanted to create anything last night. Lolley did one of his great disappearing acts after 5 mins.
But we all know Carvalho won’t start on Saturday because his name isn’t Murphy, Osborn or Lolley.

Osborn and Lolley deserve to start.

Is it Murphy's fault that Grabban is injured and he is being asked to fill in because the other options are even more dire?

What is Carvalho's excuse?

[Strawberry Avenger]

One of the only players who looked like he wanted to create anything last night. Lolley did one of his great disappearing acts after 5 mins.
But we all know Carvalho won’t start on Saturday because his name isn’t Murphy, Osborn or Lolley.

Perhaps a few disappeared last night.

Problem is.  If Car' disappears it's like playing with ten men.  If Car' can't get stuck in and make a threat for us, defending higher up the pitch then Colback has sort McGinn on his own.  (what it seemed like last night and he got done for the 1st goal...but what about higher up the pitch.  I don't recall hearing Car's name much at all last night.)

I don't think it was right to start Car' or Ani' to be honest.

I'd have kept them as super subs and made Forest defensively stronger for the 1st half.  Villa put it all into that.  They gambled and won.

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

One of the only players who looked like he wanted to create anything last night. Lolley did one of his great disappearing acts after 5 mins.
But we all know Carvalho won’t start on Saturday because his name isn’t Murphy, Osborn or Lolley.

Osborn and Lolley deserve to start.

Is it Murphy's fault that Grabban is injured and he is being asked to fill in because the other options are even more dire?

What is Carvalho's excuse?

Yes.

Yes.

Agreed.

Should have come on as super sub.  Not just him but Ani' as well.  Starting them was part of our downfall.

Perhaps Villa are just a better side than Forest.  I hate to admit that though.

SA. :cool:

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

When you scout players and recruit properly you get players like McGinn who can dominate a game from start to finish in the Championship.

When you don't recruit properly and you sign players 'blind' on the recommendations of an agent you get players like Carvalho.

[Maltared]

One of the only players who looked like he wanted to create anything last night. Lolley did one of his great disappearing acts after 5 mins.
But we all know Carvalho won’t start on Saturday because his name isn’t Murphy, Osborn or Lolley.

Perhaps a few disappeared last night.

Problem is.  If Car' disappears it's like playing with ten men.  If Car' can't get stuck in and make a threat for us, defending higher up the pitch then Colback has sort McGinn on his own.  (what it seemed like last night and he got done for the 1st goal...but what about higher up the pitch.  I don't recall hearing Car's name much at all last night.)

I don't think it was right to start Car' or Ani' to be honest.

I'd have kept them as super subs and made Forest defensively stronger for the 1st half.  Villa put it all into that.  They gambled and won.

SA.

Gueddy should have started yesterday (instead of Carv) and see how it goes. We needed to wear them down for a half and if we managed to remain unscatted, then bring on Carv for the second half or part of it. What we did yesterday was, put back Carvs `good` performance against Hull in the bin, and we are back to square one with him ... probability is that he will return on the bench...until further notice...

[Strawberry Avenger]

I would have started Geddy in the ACM role.

This is an area...because of the midfield strength issue you highlight, Malta...(and you often, rightly do...) I would put extra muscle in that ACM area for the 1st hour to tire teams out. 'Mix it.'

Geddy, primarily but also Bridcutt would be suited to this role. Robust players who can get stuck in but can also play a bit and have a shot on them.

It's been under utilised in my view. If you don't have a balanced top 6 midfield, you have to compensate for that somehow. And starting with a light weight ACM against a seasoned Villa midfield was not the way to go...and even further up the pitch...Ani diving over doesn't help with '11' men defending from the front, does it?

SA.