Are We Going Down?

[Marinakis Red]

Don't we have a squad now to be competitive in both?

I don't see how we need to prioritise one or the other.

Just use the squad.

McAtee or MGW, Hutchinson or Ndoye, Bakwa or CHO, Dominguez or Luiz, Sangare or Anderson, Kalimuendo or Jesus, I think you get my drift.

And I totally agree with this but none of them are firing. We really do not look like a team full of goals or confidence for that matter. Its a problem.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Okay so putting Bournemouth aside what about all the others?

We played Porto at home we didn't have to travel.

Nothing unusual playing midweek and then at the weekend we have been doing it for about a 100 years.

[Cornish forest]

Okay so putting Bournemouth aside what about all the others?

We played Porto at home we didn't have to travel.

Nothing unusual playing midweek and then at the weekend we have been doing it for about a 100 years.

It was 3 games in 8 days compared to Bournemouth’s one. 
It does make a difference. 
I think last season Villa didn’t win a league game immediately following their Europa midweek games.

[Marinakis Red]

Okay so putting Bournemouth aside what about all the others?

We played Porto at home we didn't have to travel.

Nothing unusual playing midweek and then at the weekend we have been doing it for about a 100 years.

We all know the fitness levels etc in football have changed.

History also tells you that teams in europe struggle domestically in recent years unless you are one of the big clubs with ridiculous quality. 

We thought we had the squad to cope with both and EM certainly put his money in that is for sure but right now we are not at it and when every game matters which is does when you are effectively 4 points adrift with the goal difference. 

Being in the Premier league for me comes first and foremost, we expected to be top half again and having an enjoyable run in the Europa League, but so far the teams that have had a full week off have turned us over, we didnt lay a glove on Newcastle or Bournemouth in those games. 

Were are past the stage of thinking we will be alright, we'll i bloody hope we are otherwise we could find ourselves where Leicester were when they thought there squad was to good to go down. 

Be careful what we wish for.

This isn't doom and gloom, this is realism, we have a fight on our hands a proper fight, and we look incapable of scoring goals.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Okay so putting Bournemouth aside what about all the others?

We played Porto at home we didn't have to travel.

Nothing unusual playing midweek and then at the weekend we have been doing it for about a 100 years.

Which is why PL teams for many years have been playing weakened or B teams in midweek cup games. Big 6 clubs have the resources to keep strong sides in Europe, its a new thing for us.
No problem from me playing McAtee, Bakwa and the rest and if we don’t integrate them at some point there is an awful lot of money sitting around getting unhappy. Just saying if we do that our first European journey in 30 years may be a short one.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Okay so putting Bournemouth aside what about all the others?

We played Porto at home we didn't have to travel.

Nothing unusual playing midweek and then at the weekend we have been doing it for about a 100 years.

Which is why PL teams for many years have been playing weakened or B teams in midweek cup games. Big 6 clubs have the resources to keep strong sides in Europe, its a new thing for us.
No problem from me playing McAtee, Bakwa and the rest and if we don’t integrate them at some point there is an awful lot of money sitting around getting unhappy. Just saying if we do that our first European journey in 30 years may be  a short one.

Yes that's why I keep banging on about using our squad.

I maintain that the Europa League is not the problem but lack of rotation is the problem.

Too many players many who are PL or EL proven not being used.

[wassy04]

Okay so putting Bournemouth aside what about all the others?

We played Porto at home we didn't have to travel.

Nothing unusual playing midweek and then at the weekend we have been doing it for about a 100 years.

Which is why PL teams for many years have been playing weakened or B teams in midweek cup games. Big 6 clubs have the resources to keep strong sides in Europe, its a new thing for us.
No problem from me playing McAtee, Bakwa and the rest and if we don’t integrate them at some point there is an awful lot of money sitting around getting unhappy. Just saying if we do that our first European journey in 30 years may be  a short one.

Yes that's why I keep banging on about using our squad.

I maintain that the Europa League is not the problem but lack of rotation is the problem.

Too many players many who are PL or EL proven not being used.

The top 6 sides do largely play their first teams in the CL, at least until they are qualified, just check their lineups. I agree here, I don't think we would've been doing way better if we'd not have the Europa League games.

It's only been three weeks, one of which was Newcastle who also had a Euro game anyway. 

I do think we need to use the squad for the Sturm Graz game though, play our best team in the two PL games either side and play McAtee, Bakwa, Kalimuendo, Dominguez, Yates in the EL game. It's only really Anderson and MGW that have been overplayed, maybe Neco too. Centre backs don't need to cover as much ground so less of an issue there. Maybe just leave those three guys in Nottingham and keep the rest the same?

[JohnG]

The other thing is, Dyche has only been here a week now. With the Porto game he maybe had one two session and not many between that and Bournemouth, Am sure they've identified the two biggest problems as being set pieces and converting chances. And working on those as priority.

[Username]

Ive loved the nights against Betis and Porto and wouldn’t change it for the world, you’ll remember them long after Sunderland and West Ham.

However the point is that game on Thursday clearly took it out of the team, energy levels of Anderson, Luiz, MGW and even Williams were way below vs Bournemouth, that would have been a very tough game with everyone 100%, as it was we got battered.

We were constantly told over the summer we needed all the incomings to cope with Europe yet many of them have hardly been utilised. Then when Ange did try to rotate he got slaughtered and people said he shouldnt change a winning team. So what do you want?

I wouldn’t be against having a different team we play on a Thursday but its very difficult to do effectively, Man City for example rarely rotate their team. Does a team of Kali, Bakwa, McAtee, Yates and Sangare get the same result? Probably not and there goes your European excitement. The other factor is that a positive result whoever its against breeds confidence. Getting beaten twice in a week definitely doesn’t. As you can tell I haven’t a clue myself what the answer is.

When did Ange change a winning team?

I worded that badly but as put in previous reply, we played excellently in Seville IMO in stifling heat and couldn’t quite hang on for the win. Ange changed 5 for the game vs Sunderland a few days later which I believe was the correct thing to do. The result we know and he got slaughtered for rotating the team.

So what do people want us to do? Keep the same side and risk an exhausted team or prioritise the league and weaken in Europe?

He also made substantial changes mid game in Seville? It wasn’t the same eleven for 90 minutes

[wassy04]

Ive loved the nights against Betis and Porto and wouldn’t change it for the world, you’ll remember them long after Sunderland and West Ham.

However the point is that game on Thursday clearly took it out of the team, energy levels of Anderson, Luiz, MGW and even Williams were way below vs Bournemouth, that would have been a very tough game with everyone 100%, as it was we got battered.

We were constantly told over the summer we needed all the incomings to cope with Europe yet many of them have hardly been utilised. Then when Ange did try to rotate he got slaughtered and people said he shouldnt change a winning team. So what do you want?

I wouldn’t be against having a different team we play on a Thursday but its very difficult to do effectively, Man City for example rarely rotate their team. Does a team of Kali, Bakwa, McAtee, Yates and Sangare get the same result? Probably not and there goes your European excitement. The other factor is that a positive result whoever its against breeds confidence. Getting beaten twice in a week definitely doesn’t. As you can tell I haven’t a clue myself what the answer is.

When did Ange change a winning team?

I worded that badly but as put in previous reply, we played excellently in Seville IMO in stifling heat and couldn’t quite hang on for the win. Ange changed 5 for the game vs Sunderland a few days later which I believe was the correct thing to do. The result we know and he got slaughtered for rotating the team.

So what do people want us to do? Keep the same side and risk an exhausted team or prioritise the league and weaken in Europe?

He also made substantial changes mid game in Seville? It wasn’t the same eleven for 90 minutes

It was less the player rotation and more the system rotation that was the issue. Not to mention some of the more surprising changes that he made such as that final team sheet. Ange found a really successful structure for what he wanted against Betis and then never played it again after half time! How infuriating.

[wassy04]

We are currently in the same position Crystal Palace were at the same time last season.

Say no more..............it is ridiculous all this panic posting and worrying.

Some significant differences with Palace. We are into our third manager this season with changes in playing style and preferred personnel that goes with that. They kept with the one manager. Their performances were improving and ours are going in the opposite direction. The performance at Bournemouth was in my opinion at least as bad as the thrashings we had at Fulham and Leicester under Cooper and also this season the promoted clubs are much better than those that went up the previous season making it much more competitive. Also Palace did not have the distraction of European football. Make no mistake we are in trouble.

Can I just push back a bit on one thing, the Bournemouth game was nowhere near as bad as those thrashings. For a start we weren't even thrashed. We lost 2-0, one from a flukey direct corner and a long range strike. Otherwise we did keep their chances down to a minimum, shown in the fact that their xG was 0.6, barely higher than ours. You can say they slowed things down second half as they didn't need to push but that was to stop us attacking. We also had a few chances of our own too that were decent saves. This was against the in form team in the league. 

Attacking wise we're looking weak but Dyche immediately got us to tighten up in terms of chances conceded, similar to Porto and completely different to Ange games. He's not even reached his one week anniversary in the job either!

[Spangles]

Attacking wise looking weak is the understatement of the year . Our goal threat has been absolutely pathetic . The alarm bells were ringing pre-season .