The Infrastructure Projects

[stirred]

The Trent End concerns me about staying put. Obviously hemmed in and seems to limit us in terms of expansion. It’s not big for your home end. Am I being too greedy?

[ToryTom]

Man City moved out of Moss Side the roughest area of the City to a venue still only 2 miles from Manchester City centre.
Arsenal moved to a site a very short distance from Highbury
West Ham fans would move back to the Boleyn in a heartbeat, the offer of a free tax payer funded stadium was too good even though they hate the place.
Brighton were homeless and had no choice. their new stadium is nice but in a horrible location and is exactly what I would fear about Toton. Difference is we havent got to go.
Southampton stadium is in good location in the heart of the City. The Dell wasn’t even close to being big enough and they had to move.
Leicester likewise, Filbert street hemmed in on 3 sides had to move, new stadium less than a mile away.
Derby? Really? You want to move to a retail park? Besides again they moved from a cramped location in the shittiest part of a shitty city to a lcation that’s actually closer to the centre.

Do you see the difference above vs moving from an outdated but upgradeable venue in a superb location to one 8 miles away and no longer in the City and community it represents?

Problem is it isn’t really upgradeable. This regime and before that Doughty’s one all looked at a expansion and came to the same conclusion that it could only ever be piecemeal. Top premier league teams are becoming worldwide brands. The venues are expanding to accommodate an ever increasing number of people worldwide who want to watch, often in person when visiting those countries. It’s getting like top american sporting brands. People attend for the day hours before kick off the to engage in a loads of family entertainments going off in and around the stadium. Usually inside. Hospitality is massive. Fans come for the food and drink as well. Most of those stadiums are on the outskirts of cities or further afield. If we stay at a 35,000 old stadium which isn’t able to cater for the experiences more and more people, we will get left well behind even by our local rivals whose stadiums are better located to expand and develop. also i disagree that west ham fans would go back to upton park if they had the option. at least half of the fans attending now wouldn’t get the opportunity to go and watch them.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Look I have always agreed commercially we are better off moving, I get it.
But we don’t live in America, we don’t support a franchise, we don’t watch NFL. Football in this country is different and has a different culture.
Let’s agree to disagree.

P.s. Half West Ham fans would vote to go back to Upton Park. The other half sit at the new ground scrolling through their mobiles on the evidence of the atmosphere there.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

The huge difference is that Man Utd plan to build their new ground adjacent to the old one still within Old Trafford. Its a big industrial area with room for development.

Forest of course dont have the room and its just not possible, even a move within a few miles would seem to be impractical, pretty sure the club have looked at alternatives. So the option is Toton or some other site probably outside the City. Commercially a move would make sense but if you think that’s the only consideration in my opinion you miss the point. Personally I think that alternative strips the club of its identity and what we lose is far more than we gain.

Man City, Arsenal, West Ham, Brighton, Southampton, Leicester Derby , Sunderland all moved to bigger and better stadiums in different locations. I bet not many of their fans would regret those moves and wish to go back to their old stadiums. Why would Forest fans be any different.

Sorry but that is Dog shit ^

None of them left from an iconic location like the City Ground for a start and non of them moved to a shit tip like Toton.

You are completely missing a much bigger picture.

The love affair and the history and nostalgia  etc of the CG, doesn't it mean anything to you?

Those other clubs you mentioned didn't have that.

The comparison you are trying to make is not  valid and is actually a bit annoying and offensive.

[ToryTom]

The huge difference is that Man Utd plan to build their new ground adjacent to the old one still within Old Trafford. Its a big industrial area with room for development.

Forest of course dont have the room and its just not possible, even a move within a few miles would seem to be impractical, pretty sure the club have looked at alternatives. So the option is Toton or some other site probably outside the City. Commercially a move would make sense but if you think that’s the only consideration in my opinion you miss the point. Personally I think that alternative strips the club of its identity and what we lose is far more than we gain.

Man City, Arsenal, West Ham, Brighton, Southampton, Leicester Derby , Sunderland all moved to bigger and better stadiums in different locations. I bet not many of their fans would regret those moves and wish to go back to their old stadiums. Why would Forest fans be any different.

Sorry but that is Dog S**t ^

None of them left from an iconic location like the City Ground for a start and non of them moved to a S**t tip like Toton.

You are completely missing a much bigger picture.

The love affair and the history and nostalgia  etc of the CG, doesn't it mean anything to you?

Those other clubs you mentioned didn't have that.

The comparison you are trying to make is not  valid and is actually a bit annoying and offensive.

‘Annoying and offensive’. That’s a bit over the top isn’t it. I am sure Man City Arsenal Sunderland WHam fans and even Derby ones would say they also have great histories and a lot of nostalgia for their old stadiums but they moved because they wanted to progress and move with the times. We risk being stuck in the past and seen as a novelty like a Preston North End or Huddersfield. A once succesful club living in the past. Top level football has changed dramatically in the last thirty years. Football in the premier league has taken off. Crowds are bigger and spectators expect much better facilities and experiences than in the 70’s and 80’s. If Forest don’t provide that people will go elsewhere. We live in more of a consumer society and loyalty to specific brands are much weaker. Recent general elections show that. At one time people would vote for one of the two parties all their life but now are much more fluid.

[zicorice]

I'm amazed that people are still pushing the 'pros' of moving now that we are getting towards what we really want. SM and Sniff have nailed it.

In this day and age expansion could easily go well over 40k. We could also build a monster 3rd tier on BC stand in the future similar Newcastle or Scousepool extensions bringing it close to 50k in the future IF its necessary or worthwhile.

Why would we consider leaving such an iconic location when there is no need now?  Madness. If anything, there would be a risk that many long term supporters disenchanted by the various negative aspects of the Premier League may break ties from attending  not being ar$ed with stupid membership schemes for the right to buy a ticket from time to time. Living so close to the ground (and clearly on Social media) there's alot of longterm supporters getting pi$$ed off with the rinsing of fans.

I'm just one of the idiots that puts up with it. Season Card  Away membership, Shirt for holiday, shirt for youngest etc..I love Forest, but hate much of what the premier league has become.

Edit: Also need to move forward more on the pitch first

[Marinakis Red]

Have we now been given full planning permission to expand the city ground? Until that's been secured and we start building then surely debate about moving remains valid?

[Sausage Roll]

Have we now been given full planning permission to expand the city ground? Until that's been secured and we start building then surely debate about moving remains valid?

Nothing has changed for a few weeks now. 

Last update was that the City Council had agreed to sell the freehold of the land to Forest, though I'm not sure a deal has actually been agreed yet.

Rushcliffe Borough Council granted planning permission a couple of years ago but I think the plans have changed now so presumably that would need reapproving.

[Marinakis Red]

Have we now been given full planning permission to expand the city ground? Until that's been secured and we start building then surely debate about moving remains valid?

Nothing has changed for a few weeks now. 

Last update was that the City Council had agreed to sell the freehold of the land to Forest, though I'm not sure a deal has actually been agreed yet.

Rushcliffe Borough Council granted planning permission a couple of years ago but I think the plans have changed now so presumably that would need reapproving.

Thanks SR and you are right we will need to resubmit plans if we are changing the plans. So a long way to go. The last planning application took 3 years until we got to the approval stage.

So whilst it's all up in the air the club and fans will continue to look at all the options. 

My personal opinion is to stay put and try to get what we want where we are but how long are we willing to wait?

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Have we now been given full planning permission to expand the city ground? Until that's been secured and we start building then surely debate about moving remains valid?

Nothing has changed for a few weeks now. 

Last update was that the City Council had agreed to sell the freehold of the land to Forest, though I'm not sure a deal has actually been agreed yet.

Rushcliffe Borough Council granted planning permission a couple of years ago but I think the plans have changed now so presumably that would need reapproving.

Thanks SR and you are right we will need to resubmit plans if we are changing the plans. So a long way to go. The last planning application took 3 years until we got to the approval stage.

So whilst it's all up in the air the club and fans will continue to look at all the options. 

My personal opinion is to stay put and try to get what we want where we are but how long are we willing to wait?

Agree MR that we cannot wait indefinitely. The other factor is none of us know how the sums stack up, in other words is upgrading the PT stand affordable without the residential development should we not get full planning permission?
EM has deep pockets but we have to accept his generosity isn’t limitless if he stands to lose £100 or more on the whole thing. I want to stay and have said above there is more to it than just commercial gain but at some point the club has to draw a line if it just isn’t workable. I truly hope they exhaust every option before they get to that though.

[stirred]

I'm amazed that people are still pushing the 'pros' of moving now that we are getting towards what we really want. SM and Sniff have nailed it.

In this day and age expansion could easily go well over 40k. We could also build a monster 3rd tier on BC stand in the future similar Newcastle or Scousepool extensions bringing it close to 50k in the future IF its necessary or worthwhile.

Why would we consider leaving such an iconic location when there is no need now?  Madness. If anything, there would be a risk that many long term supporters disenchanted by the various negative aspects of the Premier League may break ties from attending  not being ar$ed with stupid membership schemes for the right to buy a ticket from time to time. Living so close to the ground (and clearly on Social media) there's alot of longterm supporters getting pi$$ed off with the rinsing of fans.

I'm just one of the idiots that puts up with it. Season Card  Away membership, Shirt for holiday, shirt for youngest etc..I love Forest, but hate much of what the premier league has become.

Edit: Also need to move forward more on the pitch first

Can we also move the pitch forward so we can extend the Trent end?

[Tricky]

The huge difference is that Man Utd plan to build their new ground adjacent to the old one still within Old Trafford. Its a big industrial area with room for development.

Forest of course dont have the room and its just not possible, even a move within a few miles would seem to be impractical, pretty sure the club have looked at alternatives. So the option is Toton or some other site probably outside the City. Commercially a move would make sense but if you think that’s the only consideration in my opinion you miss the point. Personally I think that alternative strips the club of its identity and what we lose is far more than we gain.

Man City, Arsenal, West Ham, Brighton, Southampton, Leicester Derby , Sunderland all moved to bigger and better stadiums in different locations. I bet not many of their fans would regret those moves and wish to go back to their old stadiums. Why would Forest fans be any different.

Sorry but that is Dog S**t ^

None of them left from an iconic location like the City Ground for a start and non of them moved to a S**t tip like Toton.

You are completely missing a much bigger picture.

The love affair and the history and nostalgia  etc of the CG, doesn't it mean anything to you?

Those other clubs you mentioned didn't have that.

The comparison you are trying to make is not  valid and is actually a bit annoying and offensive.

‘Annoying and offensive’. That’s a bit over the top isn’t it. I am sure Man City Arsenal Sunderland WHam fans and even Derby ones would say they also have great histories and a lot of nostalgia for their old stadiums but they moved because they wanted to progress and move with the times. We risk being stuck in the past and seen as a novelty like a Preston North End or Huddersfield. A once succesful club living in the past. Top level football has changed dramatically in the last thirty years. Football in the premier league has taken off. Crowds are bigger and spectators expect much better facilities and experiences than in the 70’s and 80’s. If Forest don’t provide that people will go elsewhere. We live in more of a consumer society and loyalty to specific brands are much weaker. Recent general elections show that. At one time people would vote for one of the two parties all their life but now are much more fluid.

What an absolute c**k of a statement!!!! If FOREST fans don't like the stadium and the facilities it provides and will go elsewhere, then they aren't Forest fans!!!

The facilities when I started going to watch the Reds (50 years ago) were virtually non-existent in comparison to todays facilities. Outside toilets with no roof over them (unless you pissed down the Trent End steps!), no running water (either hot or cold!) minimal foods availability, no alcohol available, stood on packed to crushing terracing with only crush barriers in the way to stop the crowd cascading down from top to bottom, but which if you were on the wrong side of could (and did) cause significant injuries, fighting on the terraces and around the ground, all the way up to the station (and beyond occasionally), fenced in like animals, in partial wooden stands. I could go on. BUT!! I loved it and I'm sure every other true Forest fan, irrespective of which era they started watching OUR team, will say the same thing. They love the place. I did then and I do now.

I know there are many issues with the ground that do need urgent attention, especially in todays day and age, but irrespective of whether there is hot water or not or bird shit on the terracing, it is our ground, our home, our history and our legacy. If people want to go elsewhere to watch their football with better facilities (a statement I find ridiculous to say the least), then in my opinion, f**k off to Man City or Arsenal or Spurs or West Ham and watch football from a distance in stadia with little or no atmosphere. 

One last thing to state, you look at other fans forums and see how many fans from other clubs love coming to the City Ground, with the most common point being made, that it is a proper old school football ground, not a lifeless bowl.