The Infrastructure Projects

[Sausage Roll]

Indirectly having a new stadium *could* help the football side (e.g. more revenue = less PSR worry = more spending power) but as you say Sniff it's no guarantee. Lots of clubs with big new stadiums have been relegated to the Championship and lower, whilst clubs who've stayed put and redeveloped have established themselves in the PL.

[wassy04]

So what do we do about the fans who can't get tickets. For 29000 people it's very easy to sit on the side of the city ground. For all those who can't get seats.... Those people need something to change. 5000 extra seats hits about a third of the waiting list.

City ground or no city ground something needs to change and the sooner the better

I think we are now looking at the possibility of finding a way to increase the CG by a further 15,000.

If that indeed is the case then I am all for stopping where we are thank you very much.

Where does the idea come from that if we move into a new 50,000 seater stadium then we are all of a sudden going to turn into a top six club?

Nothing is guaranteed in life but you can make decisions which improve the probability of outcomes. The changing picture as a result of P&S is going to even more equalize league position with income. The owner is ambitious for the club and I share that. Do we want to be a yo yo club at best or do we want to be a force in English football. Do we want to be like a Preston North End or more like a Spurs or Villa. Do we want to say we were once contenders or still be. We did win the European Cup twice in living memory.

This is what i keep getting at.

How does a new stadium guarantee that we will be a force in English football? We are a million miles behind Manchester City, Manchester Unitrd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle and Tottenham etc. There is no magic wand with a new stadium. We could just as easily fall out of the PL than suddenly become a force. 

It will be on the pitch that will make us a top side again not a new stadium. You don't get any points for building a new ground, points are earned out on the pitch.

It doesn't of course but it does increase the chance with better resources for wages etc.

Can you really see us getting top 6 ever with the current setup?

[wassy04]

So what do we do about the fans who can't get tickets. For 29000 people it's very easy to sit on the side of the city ground. For all those who can't get seats.... Those people need something to change. 5000 extra seats hits about a third of the waiting list.

City ground or no city ground something needs to change and the sooner the better

I think we are now looking at the possibility of finding a way to increase the CG by a further 15,000.

If that indeed is the case then I am all for stopping where we are thank you very much.

Where does the idea come from that if we move into a new 50,000 seater stadium then we are all of a sudden going to turn into a top six club?

The original development included 170 flats which they were planning to sell to fund construction costs.

We are now in the PL with big income (far more from tv than we will ever get from commercial btw) so do we need the flats or build fewer. EM has deep pockets and a growing empire. Develop the PT stand without the flats, Result a 40k stadium with room for far more corporate space and everyone happy?

Maybe that part isn't looking so likely? Why would EM want to fund a massive stadium development if he didn't feel like it would have a big impact? (Why would anyone?!)

[Shawoddyred]

So what do we do about the fans who can't get tickets. For 29000 people it's very easy to sit on the side of the city ground. For all those who can't get seats.... Those people need something to change. 5000 extra seats hits about a third of the waiting list.

City ground or no city ground something needs to change and the sooner the better

I think we are now looking at the possibility of finding a way to increase the CG by a further 15,000.

If that indeed is the case then I am all for stopping where we are thank you very much.

Where does the idea come from that if we move into a new 50,000 seater stadium then we are all of a sudden going to turn into a top six club?

Nothing is guaranteed in life but you can make decisions which improve the probability of outcomes. The changing picture as a result of P&S is going to even more equalize league position with income. The owner is ambitious for the club and I share that. Do we want to be a yo yo club at best or do we want to be a force in English football. Do we want to be like a Preston North End or more like a Spurs or Villa. Do we want to say we were once contenders or still be. We did win the European Cup twice in living memory.

This is what i keep getting at.

How does a new stadium guarantee that we will be a force in English football? We are a million miles behind Manchester City, Manchester Unitrd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle and Tottenham etc. There is no magic wand with a new stadium. We could just as easily fall out of the PL than suddenly become a force. 

It will be on the pitch that will make us a top side again not a new stadium. You don't get any points for building a new ground, points are earned out on the pitch.

It doesn't of course but it does increase the chance with better resources for wages etc.

Can you really see us getting top 6 ever with the current setup?

Not sure I can see a big site in Toton actually improve our chances to be honest. I think we're more likely to make better sponsorship money at the current site, with it's history than a new stadium etc and that'd make as big a difference to our revenues than the rest. I'm fairly sure EM was drawn to us in part due to our history etc, and that very much includes the City Ground! 

Isn't county hall up for sale too?? Why can't we redevelop that site to put in this magical hotel, apartments and conferencing facilities there and improve the walkway under Trent Bridge and Nottingham Forestify the whole area a bit more??

I'm very against moving, as you can probably tell and I don't even get to matches anymore. So it wouldn't actually make any difference to me, directly. I genuinely think if we moved then people will look back and regret it. I honestly don't think Nottingham has the requirement for facilities that clubs based in more major cities can make good money from. Especially if that facility is out of town.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

So what do we do about the fans who can't get tickets. For 29000 people it's very easy to sit on the side of the city ground. For all those who can't get seats.... Those people need something to change. 5000 extra seats hits about a third of the waiting list.

City ground or no city ground something needs to change and the sooner the better

I think we are now looking at the possibility of finding a way to increase the CG by a further 15,000.

If that indeed is the case then I am all for stopping where we are thank you very much.

Where does the idea come from that if we move into a new 50,000 seater stadium then we are all of a sudden going to turn into a top six club?

Nothing is guaranteed in life but you can make decisions which improve the probability of outcomes. The changing picture as a result of P&S is going to even more equalize league position with income. The owner is ambitious for the club and I share that. Do we want to be a yo yo club at best or do we want to be a force in English football. Do we want to be like a Preston North End or more like a Spurs or Villa. Do we want to say we were once contenders or still be. We did win the European Cup twice in living memory.

This is what i keep getting at.

How does a new stadium guarantee that we will be a force in English football? We are a million miles behind Manchester City, Manchester Unitrd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle and Tottenham etc. There is no magic wand with a new stadium. We could just as easily fall out of the PL than suddenly become a force. 

It will be on the pitch that will make us a top side again not a new stadium. You don't get any points for building a new ground, points are earned out on the pitch.

It doesn't of course but it does increase the chance with better resources for wages etc.

Can you really see us getting top 6 ever with the current setup?

With the current setup no but leaving the setup like it currently is is not an option so that doesn't matter. 

I think another 15K seats in our present location though gives us just as good a chance as moving into a brand new stadium.

[Sausage Roll]

I don't think the footprint at County Hall is big enough for a football stadium and everything that comes with it.

[Shawoddyred]

I don't think the footprint at County Hall is big enough for a football stadium and everything that comes with it.

I meant keep the stadium where it is, improve it and locate a load of the ancillary stuff that people have been talking about (hotel, conference, apartments etc) at the County Hall site. 

Could even build a forest brewery and pie factory!

[wassy04]

I think we are now looking at the possibility of finding a way to increase the CG by a further 15,000.

If that indeed is the case then I am all for stopping where we are thank you very much.

Where does the idea come from that if we move into a new 50,000 seater stadium then we are all of a sudden going to turn into a top six club?

Nothing is guaranteed in life but you can make decisions which improve the probability of outcomes. The changing picture as a result of P&S is going to even more equalize league position with income. The owner is ambitious for the club and I share that. Do we want to be a yo yo club at best or do we want to be a force in English football. Do we want to be like a Preston North End or more like a Spurs or Villa. Do we want to say we were once contenders or still be. We did win the European Cup twice in living memory.

This is what i keep getting at.

How does a new stadium guarantee that we will be a force in English football? We are a million miles behind Manchester City, Manchester Unitrd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle and Tottenham etc. There is no magic wand with a new stadium. We could just as easily fall out of the PL than suddenly become a force. 

It will be on the pitch that will make us a top side again not a new stadium. You don't get any points for building a new ground, points are earned out on the pitch.

It doesn't of course but it does increase the chance with better resources for wages etc.

Can you really see us getting top 6 ever with the current setup?

With the current setup no but leaving the setup like it currently is is not an option so that doesn't matter. 

I think another 15K seats in our present location though gives us just as good a chance as moving into a brand new stadium.

Ok but that isn't on the table is it? The original plans had between 5 and 10k didn't they? Everything that has gone on since does seem to imply that those plans aren't viable otherwise we'd have already progressed them? Perhaps the flats weren't possible? Or is it simply we're trying to think bigger? The original plans did seem a little too good to be true.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Nothing is guaranteed in life but you can make decisions which improve the probability of outcomes. The changing picture as a result of P&S is going to even more equalize league position with income. The owner is ambitious for the club and I share that. Do we want to be a yo yo club at best or do we want to be a force in English football. Do we want to be like a Preston North End or more like a Spurs or Villa. Do we want to say we were once contenders or still be. We did win the European Cup twice in living memory.

This is what i keep getting at.

How does a new stadium guarantee that we will be a force in English football? We are a million miles behind Manchester City, Manchester Unitrd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle and Tottenham etc. There is no magic wand with a new stadium. We could just as easily fall out of the PL than suddenly become a force. 

It will be on the pitch that will make us a top side again not a new stadium. You don't get any points for building a new ground, points are earned out on the pitch.

It doesn't of course but it does increase the chance with better resources for wages etc.

Can you really see us getting top 6 ever with the current setup?

With the current setup no but leaving the setup like it currently is is not an option so that doesn't matter. 

I think another 15K seats in our present location though gives us just as good a chance as moving into a brand new stadium.

Ok but that isn't on the table is it? The original plans had between 5 and 10k didn't they? Everything that has gone on since does seem to imply that those plans aren't viable otherwise we'd have already progressed them? Perhaps the flats weren't possible? Or is it simply we're trying to think bigger? The original plans did seem a little too good to be true.

Like I stated earlier today in this thread I heard that we are now exploring the possiblity of increasing the CG by a further 15K.

[wassy04]

This is what i keep getting at.

How does a new stadium guarantee that we will be a force in English football? We are a million miles behind Manchester City, Manchester Unitrd, Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle and Tottenham etc. There is no magic wand with a new stadium. We could just as easily fall out of the PL than suddenly become a force. 

It will be on the pitch that will make us a top side again not a new stadium. You don't get any points for building a new ground, points are earned out on the pitch.

It doesn't of course but it does increase the chance with better resources for wages etc.

Can you really see us getting top 6 ever with the current setup?

With the current setup no but leaving the setup like it currently is is not an option so that doesn't matter. 

I think another 15K seats in our present location though gives us just as good a chance as moving into a brand new stadium.

Ok but that isn't on the table is it? The original plans had between 5 and 10k didn't they? Everything that has gone on since does seem to imply that those plans aren't viable otherwise we'd have already progressed them? Perhaps the flats weren't possible? Or is it simply we're trying to think bigger? The original plans did seem a little too good to be true.

Like I stated earlier today in this thread I heard that we are now exploring the possiblity of increasing the CG by a further 15K.

Fair enough, probably worth shelving this discussion until we see how that goes.

[Tricky]

So what do we do about the fans who can't get tickets. For 29000 people it's very easy to sit on the side of the city ground. For all those who can't get seats.... Those people need something to change. 5000 extra seats hits about a third of the waiting list.

City ground or no city ground something needs to change and the sooner the better

I think we are now looking at the possibility of finding a way to increase the CG by a further 15,000.

If that indeed is the case then I am all for stopping where we are thank you very much.

Where does the idea come from that if we move into a new 50,000 seater stadium then we are all of a sudden going to turn into a top six club?

This ^^

[Tricky]

If we can find a way to increase the CG to an amount that is deemed worthwhile that'd be great.

I think the issue that seems to be ignored is the cost. EM is essentially paying for this, if we're saying the cost of the CG rebuild is going to be X, then he's going to be footing the bill. Now from that perspective, would it be a good move for him to spend 500m on a stadium rebuild that doesn't really offer value for money, probably not (and this would apply to any owner of Forest). It seems to me that rebuilding the City Ground isn't particularly financially viable. I think someone spending that kind of money would expect a return either financially or with potential for greater sporting success, do we think an extra 5-10k seats gives you enough of a benefit to justify the massive cost?

It seems like the conclusion is not, so then you're really left with the question of do we allow EM to spend 500m to build a new stadium (presumably some of the cost will be offset by whatever happens to the City Ground site?) or do we just stay as is, do smaller cheaper improvements and accept this is the level the club is.

Basically I think it's fairly clear the CG rebuild is not financially viable, hence there are really only two options.

Does anyone think a different owner would be willing to come in and pay to rebuild the CG?

Interesting question.

I suspect the club will get the lions share of sweet f**k all if we move from the City Ground, as the land that it sits on belongs to the City Council and nobody is going to want to buy a disused football stadium that is limited within its surroundings. Surely, the club would be wise to take the City Councils offer to buy the freehold, then if the club do decide to relocate, they can sell the land for as much as they want as developers will pay good money for that location