Crap Referees

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Yes agreed ^
If you excuse the players the manager and the club you are simply left with excuses, that doesn’t cut it.

[wassy04]

Surely it depends on how good you actually think the team is compared to everyone else?

Personally I think we're about the 15/16th best team so when accounting for the points deduction/remaining fixtures/VAR probably about where we are.

At worst IMO we're maybe 5 points or so worse than where we should be.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Surely it depends on how good you actually think the team is compared to everyone else?

Personally I think we're about the 15/16th best team so when accounting for the points deduction/remaining fixtures/VAR probably about where we are.

At worst IMO we're maybe 5 points or so worse than where we should be.

I posted this earlier today and I think its about right

“PSR deduction 4 points, VAR/ref decisions 4 points, questionable tactics from managers 4 points, players making basic mistakes 4 points.”

PSR 4 points - whats done is done
VAR 4 points- immediately I can hear people saying No its far more. But I doubt it is. Some decisions have gone our way too (6 sendings off for opponents but we have only won once), no guarantee we score those penalties last weekend etc etc
Manager decisions 4 points - Coopers infamous triple sub vs Luton, Nuno’s decision to play Niakhate left back vs Villa and one or two others.
Players 4 points. Maybe learn to defend the odd corner lads. But it probably hasn’t been much more than that because as you say we aren’t a top team yet.

So add in those 16 points gives us 42 and 14th place. Not far off?

[wassy04]

Surely it depends on how good you actually think the team is compared to everyone else?

Personally I think we're about the 15/16th best team so when accounting for the points deduction/remaining fixtures/VAR probably about where we are.

At worst IMO we're maybe 5 points or so worse than where we should be.

I posted this earlier today and I think its about right

“PSR deduction 4 points, VAR/ref decisions 4 points, questionable tactics from managers 4 points, players making basic mistakes 4 points.”

PSR 4 points - whats done is done
VAR 4 points- immediately I can hear people saying No its far more. But I doubt it is. Some decisions have gone our way too (6 sendings off for opponents but we have only won once), no guarantee we score those penalties last weekend etc etc
Manager decisions 4 points - Coopers infamous triple sub vs Luton, Nuno’s decision to play Niakhate left back vs Villa and one or two others.
Players 4 points. Maybe learn to defend the odd corner lads. But it probably hasn’t been much more than that because as you say we aren’t a top team yet.

So add in those 16 points gives us 42 and 14th place. Not far off?

I'm less sold on the managers/players part, surely that's just part of saying how good they are? Every manager will have made decisions that had massively negative outcomes, only one team can win after all.

Similarly, if players can't defend corners, surely that's because they aren't very good at defending? I guess our set piece record is an outlier stat so it probably is more of a system issue as well as players being unable to defend.

Either way I would factor the above in when saying we have the 16th best squad. Whereas I would consider PSR/VAR external, if those rumblings make sense?

[Salvatore Matrecano]

I posted this earlier today and I think its about right

“PSR deduction 4 points, VAR/ref decisions 4 points, questionable tactics from managers 4 points, players making basic mistakes 4 points.”

PSR 4 points - whats done is done
VAR 4 points- immediately I can hear people saying No its far more. But I doubt it is. Some decisions have gone our way too (6 sendings off for opponents but we have only won once), no guarantee we score those penalties last weekend etc etc
Manager decisions 4 points - Coopers infamous triple sub vs Luton, Nuno’s decision to play Niakhate left back vs Villa and one or two others.
Players 4 points. Maybe learn to defend the odd corner lads. But it probably hasn’t been much more than that because as you say we aren’t a top team yet.

So add in those 16 points gives us 42 and 14th place. Not far off?

I'm less sold on the managers/players part, surely that's just part of saying how good they are? Every manager will have made decisions that had massively negative outcomes, only one team can win after all.

Similarly, if players can't defend corners, surely that's because they aren't very good at defending? I guess our set piece record is an outlier stat so it probably is more of a system issue as well as players being unable to defend.

Either way I would factor the above in when saying we have the 16th best squad. Whereas I would consider PSR/VAR external, if those rumblings make sense?

Yes makes sense. Was kind of pointing out our problems are multi factorial which is why we are in a mess. I was deliberately trying to be even handed when apportioning blame but I think those internal and external factors are probably pretty even as to why we are below where we should be.

Even if only 2 out of the 4 issues of PSR, Refs, managerial and player failings had happened we would be comfortably safe. However it remains that PSR rules would still be unfair, Refs would still be incompetent, Cooper would still have fallen out with Marinakis and Origi would still be shit.
It is what it is, Natalie.

[Sausage Roll]

The independent body which looks at refereeing decisions has said that the only one vs. Everton they think we should have had a penalty for was the last one (the foul against CHO).

They voted 5-0 in favour of a penalty for that one and didn't understand why VAR didn't intervene.

For the handball they voted 3-2 against a penalty and for the first one (vs. Reyna) they voted 5-0 as no penalty, even though they agreed the ball wasn't played!

Bizarre.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

The independent body which looks at refereeing decisions has said that the only one vs. Everton they think we should have had a penalty for was the last one (the foul against CHO).

They voted 5-0 in favour of a penalty for that one and didn't understand why VAR didn't intervene.

For the handball they voted 3-2 against a penalty and for the first one (vs. Reyna) they voted 5-0 as no penalty, even though they agreed the ball wasn't played!

Bizarre.

How convenient for them to say that only one was a penalty when we lost by 2 goals so it didn't affect the outcome of the match in their eyes.

Total filth the lot of them.

[wassy04]

The independent body which looks at refereeing decisions has said that the only one vs. Everton they think we should have had a penalty for was the last one (the foul against CHO).

They voted 5-0 in favour of a penalty for that one and didn't understand why VAR didn't intervene.

For the handball they voted 3-2 against a penalty and for the first one (vs. Reyna) they voted 5-0 as no penalty, even though they agreed the ball wasn't played!

Bizarre.

Really interesting, pretty much exactly where the majority are. First not a pen, 2nd was 50-50, 3rd clear pen.

The bit with the 3rd one that is especially sketchy is that the ref clearly suggests on the field that the Everton player got the ball so VAR chose to ignore that information that the ref was wrong.

Frustrating.

[Sausage Roll]

That first one would be given to *some* teams, I guarantee you that. Even that commission said 'the ball wasn't played and there was contact' so how is that not a foul? Minimal contact and the player 'exaggerating' it is still contact. Or is it only contact if you're Liverpool etc?

[wassy04]

That first one would be given to *some* teams, I guarantee you that. Even that commission said 'the ball wasn't played and there was contact' so how is that not a foul? Minimal contact and the player 'exaggerating' it is still contact. Or is it only contact if you're Liverpool etc?

Yeah I doubt VAR overturns it if it was given on the field.

Ironically with the 2nd one isn't that very similar to the one Cov got in the FA Cup game? Kind of goes against the big clubs theory.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Again the verdict overlooks the fact that the 3rd pen which should have been given was at a pivotal moment in the game with the score 1-0 to Everton. Score the pen the game is even and any result is possible. To say we would have lost 2-1 regardless is of course total BS.
Wonder if we draw a line under this or still take it further?

[Sausage Roll]

The Mic'd Up programme on Sky Sports Premier League at 19:00 tonight will feature audio from the Everton match.

I bet the audio will be of one of the first two penalty appeals though, and most likely the Reyna one.