NFFC Financial Talk

[ozzyten10]

If that can be proved iot is clear grounds for appeal.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

In case this hasn't been posted before, but an Athletic article by Paul Taylor yesterday includes the line:

"The club expect to fall well within the allowable losses for the financial year ending in June — they have worked well within the PSR guidelines this season"

(That's a quote from Tails' article, not the club)

Tails is fed his info by the club though, he was saying the same thing this time last year. Don’t blame Forest for putting out the message that we are on track, any other stance makes out we will be having a fire sale.

Youve got to expect that all the big clubs will have got their financial departments to root into as much info as they can about every other club in the league and see which might be close to PSR limits. Then their findings are going to land on the desks of the recruitment teams.

What makes you so certain that Forest knew they were in the sh*t and were lying to the supporters and everyone. Again if we were told we could use covid and promotion bonuses in our calculations then the info given to us by whoever was bad and by all accounts the info was from the PL themselves.

Just my opinion and Im not having a go at you in any way but some of the arguments you put forward fall into the Evertonisms of “Its not fair, can’t you all see we’re innocent”.
Ultimately the report in Dec 22 prepared by our own director of finance was forecasting a breach. That means to the best of his knowledge we were using the correct amounts for Covid and promotion bonuses. The amounts he used for those forecasts should have been the number we were working towards. I dont accept goalposts were moved, that could only have been the case had our DOF had forecasted we were OK only to fail later. We went on to sign 7 more players after that.
My opinion (and its only an opinion) is that Forest knew exactly the gamble they were taking. They had to mislead us, they couldn’t exactly go public and they never will. As I have said repeatedly , it was a gamble worth taking because here we are still in the PL. Had we bought a few more players with a backbone this summer I think we would be comfortably mid table and laughing that we had got away with it.

[Forest1970]

In case this hasn't been posted before, but an Athletic article by Paul Taylor yesterday includes the line:

"The club expect to fall well within the allowable losses for the financial year ending in June — they have worked well within the PSR guidelines this season"

(That's a quote from Tails' article, not the club)

Tails is fed his info by the club though, he was saying the same thing this time last year. Don’t blame Forest for putting out the message that we are on track, any other stance makes out we will be having a fire sale.

Youve got to expect that all the big clubs will have got their financial departments to root into as much info as they can about every other club in the league and see which might be close to PSR limits. Then their findings are going to land on the desks of the recruitment teams.

What makes you so certain that Forest knew they were in the sh*t and were lying to the supporters and everyone. Again if we were told we could use covid and promotion bonuses in our calculations then the info given to us by whoever was bad and by all accounts the info was from the PL themselves.

Just my opinion and Im not having a go at you in any way but some of the arguments you put forward fall into the Evertonisms of “Its not fair, can’t you all see we’re innocent”.
Ultimately the report in Dec 22 prepared by our own director of finance was forecasting a breach. That means to the best of his knowledge we were using the correct amounts for Covid and promotion bonuses. The amounts he used for those forecasts should have been the number we were working towards. I dont accept goalposts were moved, that could only have been the case had our DOF had forecasted we were OK only to fail later. We went on to sign 7 more players after that.
My opinion (and its only an opinion) is that Forest knew exactly the gamble they were taking. They had to mislead us, they couldn’t exactly go public and they never will. As I have said repeatedly , it was a gamble worth taking because here we are still in the PL. Had we bought a few more players with a backbone this summer I think we would be comfortably mid table and laughing that we had got away with it.

I'm not saying we're completely innocent mate but I find it very hard to believe that EM would knowingly allow us to get in the sh*t with the very high chance of being relegated after saying he wants us to be a top 10 team. It just defeats everything the big man has said for his hopes for Forest. I would also say that everyone that was responsible for keeping us on the straight and narrow has most likely been sacked. But at the end of the day everyone has a opinion on this and all pretty much valid.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Agreed mate, we are all guessing, even those of us who claim to know something definitely don’t know it all.

By the way, think you mentioned the other day you were a carer for your wife? My full respect to you and very best wishes to you both.

[Forest1970]

Agreed mate, we are all guessing, even those of us who claim to know something definitely don’t know it all.

By the way, think you mentioned the other day you were a carer for your wife? My full respect to you and very best wishes to you both.

Thank you much appreciated. 

Yes she has had Parkinsons Disease for 25 years so its bloody hard work so this site is a small break for me. I love how everyone has their own view on things.

[Reds73]

Mangala is on a loan to buy for 30 million.  Which would balance the books.

Provided Mangala leaves in the summer then we are ok.

Door would be open to a loan or two, but no purchases unless we sell to buy.

And in the summer the same people saying we made our own problems will no doubt be complaining we are not signing anyone........

It depends on how the deal is structured but I suspect Lyon have structured it like this so that the cost is split across multiple years.

It’s irrelevant how it’s structured.
For FFP purposes a player sale hits the accounts at the point of sale, irrespective of when the money is received

[wassy04]

Mangala is on a loan to buy for 30 million.  Which would balance the books.

Provided Mangala leaves in the summer then we are ok.

Door would be open to a loan or two, but no purchases unless we sell to buy.

And in the summer the same people saying we made our own problems will no doubt be complaining we are not signing anyone........

It depends on how the deal is structured but I suspect Lyon have structured it like this so that the cost is split across multiple years.

It’s irrelevant how it’s structured.
For FFP purposes a player sale hits the accounts at the point of sale, irrespective of when the money is received

Yeah I know, I'm suggesting they'll likely have set up the sale contract to go through in July.

[Username]

The biggest thing from the Everton case which we'll find out is how the double (or even triple) jeopardy issue will be handled. As obviously this will have a large implication for us this summer. Watch this space I guess!

Having read the whole 52 pages on our judgement it is difficult to not conclude that the PL will be pushing for a harder points deduction for Everton due to

1 A PSR breach by definition warrants a deduction, no exceptions 
2 A repeat offence is seen as a blatant disregard 
3 The PL need to be seen to be taking a strict approach as part of their defence to any Government intervention longer term 
4 They do not appear to have the level of mitigating factors or have taken the same “mea culpa” approach that we did

[BomberBowyer]

The biggest thing from the Everton case which we'll find out is how the double (or even triple) jeopardy issue will be handled. As obviously this will have a large implication for us this summer. Watch this space I guess!

Having read the whole 52 pages on our judgement it is difficult to not conclude that the PL will be pushing for a harder points deduction for Everton due to

1 A PSR breach by definition warrants a deduction, no exceptions 
2 A repeat offence is seen as a blatant disregard 
3 The PL need to be seen to be taking a strict approach as part of their defence to any Government intervention longer term 
4 They do not appear to have the level of mitigating factors or have taken the same “mea culpa” approach that we did

That’s kind of where I got to after reading the ruling too. Especially as generally in life re-offending gets you a worse punishment. Let’s hope so hey although Everton fans in their ‘we did nothing wrong view’ seem convinced there is something in this double jeopardy malarkey - appear completely oblivious of course as well to the fact the first deduction was for the previous 3 year period and they should have had that deduction last year which would have seem them relegated! Somehow we are the baddies and they are being targeted by the PL.

I think personally though they’ll get 4pts max taking them back to the original 10pts.

[Paplane]

The biggest thing from the Everton case which we'll find out is how the double (or even triple) jeopardy issue will be handled. As obviously this will have a large implication for us this summer. Watch this space I guess!

Having read the whole 52 pages on our judgement it is difficult to not conclude that the PL will be pushing for a harder points deduction for Everton due to

1 A PSR breach by definition warrants a deduction, no exceptions 
2 A repeat offence is seen as a blatant disregard 
3 The PL need to be seen to be taking a strict approach as part of their defence to any Government intervention longer term 
4 They do not appear to have the level of mitigating factors or have taken the same “mea culpa” approach that we did

That’s kind of where I got to after reading the ruling too. Especially as generally in life re-offending gets you a worse punishment. Let’s hope so hey although Everton fans in their ‘we did nothing wrong view’ seem convinced there is something in this double jeopardy malarkey - appear completely oblivious of course as well to the fact the first deduction was for the previous 3 year period and they should have had that deduction last year which would have seem them relegated! Somehow we are the baddies and they are being targeted by the PL.

I think personally though they’ll get 4pts max taking them back to the original 10pts.

Its been so refreshing that our fan base hasnt gone down the 'we done nothing wrong, its a conspiracy' route. Sheep fans did the same. I guess the difference is those two clubs acted with deception and tried to pretend there was nothing to see, when all the world,  except their fans, thought their actions were a dodgy as owt.

[Username]

There’s a decent amount of finger pointing at Masters and the EPL, that to me is the same as the “we done nothing wrong” stance.

[The reds]

I think most Forest fans have accepted it, it could have been a lot worse with the 8 point deduction they were pushing for even though the PL double counted in that, what I find embarrassing is the PL got the punishment from how much bigger the breach was than Everton’s even though both teams breached from different limits. Shouldn’t be comparing different cases. The only thing I’m confused about is why were the promotion bonuses disallowed, that’s 60% of the breach and also why we weren’t allowed to add an extra. 9.7m in Covid allowances, when other clubs claimed over 100m