NFFC Financial Talk

[Jean_claude_killy]

I’m hearing we have indeed been charged but unlikely to be points deduction but a strict business plan due to mitigating factors (promotion, market forces and timescales of rule changes) and a concrete willingness to adhere to the plan as demonstrated in subsequent transfer windows.

That is exactly what I thought would happen if we have been charged, but how have you heard this, No Journalists have said anything at all?

If we are charged though isn't it an automatic 6 point deduction no matter what?

I can live with a transfer ban for a window or two and a suspended points deduction.

No there isn’t any specific punishment, there are some saying PL follow the AD HOC model which was 6pts plus 1pt for every 5m over but PL don’t follow that model.

This is basically what I was told that we'd get a flat -6

No, there is no framework in place for deciding what penalties will be imposed; this is one of the reasons Everton are appealing.

The penalties imposed are very much abitrary, the 6 points plus 1 point for every 5m over the agreed amount is not set in stone

[PsychoStooge]

That is exactly what I thought would happen if we have been charged, but how have you heard this, No Journalists have said anything at all?

If we are charged though isn't it an automatic 6 point deduction no matter what?

I can live with a transfer ban for a window or two and a suspended points deduction.

No there isn’t any specific punishment, there are some saying PL follow the AD HOC model which was 6pts plus 1pt for every 5m over but PL don’t follow that model.

This is basically what I was told that we'd get a flat -6

No, there is no framework in place for deciding what penalties will be imposed; this is one of the reasons Everton are appealing.

The penalties imposed are very much abitrary, the 6 points plus 1 point for every 5m over the agreed amount is not set in stone

I get that, just passing on what I've heard though.

[Jean_claude_killy]

Everton had be warned and had a plan to follow but they didn't and that's when they got hit hard. I'm hoping we get the same opportunity to put things right.

It sounds like we have spoken to and kept the Premier league up to date of where we are.

https://burlingtonslegal.com/insight/eve...-decision/

Absolutely 100% correct

They flaunted the rules over a period of time and were not subject to just the one breach; they ignored advice given by the PL and made up a long list of "the dog ate my homework" excuses and downright lies in trying to defend their position.

The PL have gone on record stating they are active in helping Clubs avoid punishment; they speak with Clubs regularly over the course of a season offering advice on what to do if a breach seems likely - this is why very few PL Clubs have fallen foul of the rules.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Everton had be warned and had a plan to follow but they didn't and that's when they got hit hard. I'm hoping we get the same opportunity to put things right.

It sounds like we have spoken to and kept the Premier league up to date of where we are.

Absolutely 100% correct

They flaunted the rules over a period of time and were not subject to just the one breach; they ignored advice given by the PL and made up a long list of "the dog ate my homework" excuses and downright lies in trying to defend their position.

The PL have gone on record stating they are active in helping Clubs avoid punishment; they speak with Clubs regularly over the course of a season offering advice on what to do if a breach seems likely - this is why very few PL Clubs have fallen foul of the rules.

Cheers JCK that seems more hopeful.

[Jean_claude_killy]

If we are charged though isn't it an automatic 6 point deduction no matter what?

I can live with a transfer ban for a window or two and a suspended points deduction.

No there isn’t any specific punishment, there are some saying PL follow the AD HOC model which was 6pts plus 1pt for every 5m over but PL don’t follow that model.

This is basically what I was told that we'd get a flat -6

No, there is no framework in place for deciding what penalties will be imposed; this is one of the reasons Everton are appealing.

The penalties imposed are very much abitrary, the 6 points plus 1 point for every 5m over the agreed amount is not set in stone

I get that, just passing on what I've heard though.

Yes, I appreciate that and that's fair enough; I certainly was not having a go at you.

However, we only get to find out if we are on the naughty step tomorrow; an Independent tribunal will decide what is imposed later in the year.

The PL can recommend a penalty or a slap on the wrist, but it will not be certain what happens until the Tribunal sits.

I can well see a situation where we get charged and the PL make a recommendation not to penalise us, due to mitigating circumstances.

Can you imagine what will happen then?

You will see the relegation battle settled in the High Court

[Marinakis Red]

Everton had be warned and had a plan to follow but they didn't and that's when they got hit hard. I'm hoping we get the same opportunity to put things right.

It sounds like we have spoken to and kept the Premier league up to date of where we are.

Absolutely 100% correct

They flaunted the rules over a period of time and were not subject to just the one breach; they ignored advice given by the PL and made up a long list of "the dog ate my homework" excuses and downright lies in trying to defend their position.

The PL have gone on record stating they are active in helping Clubs avoid punishment; they speak with Clubs regularly over the course of a season offering advice on what to do if a breach seems likely - this is why very few PL Clubs have fallen foul of the rules.

I thought that had been the case from the reading/studying that I've done on it the last couple of weeks to have a better understanding of the situation.

[Cornish forest]

Everton had be warned and had a plan to follow but they didn't and that's when they got hit hard. I'm hoping we get the same opportunity to put things right.

It sounds like we have spoken to and kept the Premier league up to date of where we are.

Absolutely 100% correct

They flaunted the rules over a period of time and were not subject to just the one breach; they ignored advice given by the PL and made up a long list of "the dog ate my homework" excuses and downright lies in trying to defend their position.

The PL have gone on record stating they are active in helping Clubs avoid punishment; they speak with Clubs regularly over the course of a season offering advice on what to do if a breach seems likely - this is why very few PL Clubs have fallen foul of the rules.

Equally then if we have fallen foul, then that is worse as we would have been repeatedly warned?

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

And why would we ignore warnings and dig a bigger hole for ourselves?

What would we have gained by doing that?

[Cornish forest]

And why would we ignore warnings and dig a bigger hole for ourselves?

What would we have gained by doing that?

Absolutely nothing and hopefully that hasn’t happened and there is no case to answer and this is all just pessimistic speculation that we all love as Forest fans! 

But that’s my point if we have ignored warnings then surely we as supporters have at least the right to question the running of the club. 

Let’s wait and see what tomorrow brings, whilst there’s nothing wrong in forum discussions and opinions, I certainly won’t condemn anyone without evidence.

[Marinakis Red]

This is how convinced the Premier League is of the worth of its profit and sustainability rules. From August 2024, they change. Quite how isn’t yet in the public domain, but the expectation is for a system more aligned with the Uefa model, focusing on wages to turnover. So, on Monday, the likelihood is that Everton and Nottingham Forest will be charged and, if found guilty, potentially relegated, for falling foul of a system rated so highly by its enforcers that it has eight months to live. There’s governance for you. Watch out, the Post Office.
Changing profit and sustainability rules (PSR) is a tacit admission that, in the present state, they are no longer fit for purpose. This would figure as the system hasn’t really evolved since 2014 and does not take into account changes in the football landscape. Yet, while admitting that the rules need updating, the punishments have become draconian if Everton’s ten-point deduction is now the benchmark. This will come to its head when Manchester City eventually answer 115 charges for breaching rules in a system that has already been discarded. It could be that Everton may even pass PSR, as they will exist in August, having suffered relegation in May under the redundant system.
And rules are rules, as we often hear. Clubs break rules as they were, not as they will be at a future date. But punishment shouldn’t be punishment, not on such a ruinous scale, when so much is in flux. There should be proportionate tempering that takes this into account. Instead, the Premier League insists on donning the black cap. Peter Allen and Gwynne Evans were the last men sentenced to death in Britain, and were hanged on August 13, 1964. Capital punishment was later suspended and finally abolished in 1969. The Premier League, meanwhile, is intent on hurrying through capital sentences, in the weeks before capital punishment is done. And is the sentence fitting the crime? In the present five-year period — from summer 2019 to summer 2024 — Everton are 18th in the Premier League net spend table, with only Luton Town and Brighton & Hove Albion below them. It is hard, then, to view this club as the epitome of all that is wrong in football.
The argument that financial controls are what makes English football competitive also foundered in a week when this season’s success story, Aston Villa, and the bright sparks of last year, Newcastle United, both admitted, through the Villa head coach, Unai Emery, and the Newcastle chief executive, Darren Eales, that they would have to sell good players to comply with PSR rules. These are two great clubs finally in a position to compete after so long in the wilderness. And forcing them to shed talent to meet regulations that are being consigned to the bin before the end of that same transfer window is of benefit to the English game?
So Everton and Forest are lawyering up. Everton have engaged Laurence Rabinowitz KC to fight their case, Forest have enlisted Nick De Marco KC. They’ll be condemned for doing that, too, if City’s experience is anything to go by. Many feel it unfair that City’s lawyers have slowed the progress of the 115 charges to a crawl, yet it’s a strange world in which a club can’t use lawyers to fight a legal process.
Those who have watched Mr Bates vs The Post Office will know what can happen on entering court armed with little beyond a feeling of righteousness. The clubs may not win but, with the Premier League coming over all masterful, they would be mad not to meet a legal challenge head-on.
If this were a gold-standard system, if it took into account the way the game has evolved through ownership, transfer fees, compound interest, inflation and a hundred other tiny factors, the punishments would be more palatable.
As it is, a soon-to-be discarded system could be about to do immeasurable, potentially irreparable, harm. Profit and sustainability? As Premier League entities, Everton and Forest may yet be regulated to death.

[ozzyten10]

We have stayed inside EFL rules and under this ownership despite the obvious now resources we could have spent. We have sold players this year and are looking to be more sustainable going forward. We had to spend to be competitive. I hope we have stayed the right side and any breach is minimal.

In my biased view if we are punished and end up relegated because of it then it will be one of the largest miscarriage of justice in the game to date.

[Marinakis Red]

That is the latest from the times that seemingly it looks like we will be charged.