NFFC Financial Talk

[JollyLolly]

nffc93, based on your assumed selling figures and again on the rumoured purchase prices we paid for these guys we would be taking a large hit if we could indeed get these type of sums if selling. Also are any of these players wanted by other clubs?

[wassy04]

That's working on the massive assumption that we'll find buyers for all those players.

Yeah exactly, not been any rumours so far. Feels like these are moves that will likely happen nearer the end of the window if at all.

[Sausage Roll]

That's working on the massive assumption that we'll find buyers for all those players.

Yeah exactly, not been any rumours so far. Feels like these are moves that will likely happen nearer the end of the window if at all.

There have been a few:

- Scarpa to Turkey or back to Palmeiras
- Leeds interested in Dennis
- O'Brien wanted permanently by DC United
- Ipswich interested in Surridge
- Rangers wanting Panzo

*But* that's all they've been so far, rumours. No firm bids.

[nffc93]

nffc93, based on your assumed selling figures and again on the rumoured purchase prices we paid for these guys we would be taking a large hit if we could indeed get these type of sums if selling. Also are any of these players wanted by other clubs?

Mckenna last year of contract 
Shelvey - no comment 
Frueler- year older, not the best season, Atlanta rumored to want him back
Bowler - could have been handled better. I think someone will take him for what we paid.
Surridge rumored to be wanted by Ipswich. If I was a guessing man we'd get more than what we paid at 2m
Panzo Rangers
Dennis rumored to be wanted by Leeds. We ain't getting what we paid are we? 



Can't be arsed to go on but yeah, probably our own doing on why we take a hit on some of them.

And yes, some are rumored to be wanted. Never said they all were.

[wassy04]

nffc93, based on your assumed selling figures and again on the rumoured purchase prices we paid for these guys we would be taking a large hit if we could indeed get these type of sums if selling. Also are any of these players wanted by other clubs?

Mckenna last year of contract 
Shelvey - no comment 
Frueler- year older, not the best season, Atlanta rumored to want him back
Bowler - could have been handled better. I think someone will take him for what we paid.
Surridge rumored to be wanted by Ipswich. If I was a guessing man we'd get more than what we paid at 2m
Panzo Rangers
Dennis rumored to be wanted by Leeds. We ain't getting what we paid are we? 



Can't be arsed to go on but yeah, probably our own doing on why we take a hit on some of them.

And yes, some are rumored to be wanted. Never said they all were.

It's reasonable too, we signed so many players, we couldn't maintain the value for all of them!

For example, say if Freuler turned out good then Mangala (or Danilo or Yates) would not get as much game time so their value would decrease. 

I would say of the new signings, Danilo, MGW, Taiwo have definitely increased in value. Mangala kept his value, Neco not sure really, looked good at RWB, maybe could retain value to the right team. Niakhate probably worth about the same too.

[nffc93]

nffc93, based on your assumed selling figures and again on the rumoured purchase prices we paid for these guys we would be taking a large hit if we could indeed get these type of sums if selling. Also are any of these players wanted by other clubs?

Mckenna last year of contract 
Shelvey - no comment 
Frueler- year older, not the best season, Atlanta rumored to want him back
Bowler - could have been handled better. I think someone will take him for what we paid.
Surridge rumored to be wanted by Ipswich. If I was a guessing man we'd get more than what we paid at 2m
Panzo Rangers
Dennis rumored to be wanted by Leeds. We ain't getting what we paid are we? 



Can't be arsed to go on but yeah, probably our own doing on why we take a hit on some of them.

And yes, some are rumored to be wanted. Never said they all were.

It's reasonable too, we signed so many players, we couldn't maintain the value for all of them!

For example, say if Freuler turned out good then Mangala (or Danilo or Yates) would not get as much game time so their value would decrease. 

I would say of the new signings, Danilo, MGW, Taiwo have definitely increased in value. Mangala kept his value, Neco not sure really, looked good at RWB, maybe could retain value to the right team. Niakhate probably worth about the same too.

Agreed. Those are most certainly our hits last season. If we have a similar success hit rate with our targets this time around we'll have a fantastic sqaud. 

Looking at between 10 and 25m for purchases.
I can see why Brennan might possibly be off if the right offer comes in but if we manage to maximize sales on deadwood it might JUST not be needed this window/season. But again I won't lose sleep in he goes for silly money. 

We've multiple sponsorships to come, increase in memberships/tickets/ merch etc. We should be fine moving forward. I don't see any worries with FFP this season. 

We got 8m for Alvin Appiah. I'm sure it's all in hand. Haha

[Reds73]

Just some very rough figures.
The current amortised costs for players is circa 50m.
I am assuming the current wage bill after the departure of some big earners in the summer is probably around 75m.
Other costs such as infrastructure and academy aren’t included in FFP figures.
Income this year will be higher than last year due to shirt sponsorship, higher ticket prices etc.
So let’s assume turnover will be around 170/180m (120m of that us TV rev).

If we increase the wage bill to circa 100m with new signings
Plus the 50m amortised cost we are carrying forwards.

We can effectively add around 20/30m without posting a loss.

Remember fees are amortised so if we spent 100m with an average 4 yr contract length that would add another 25m to the current 50m amortised cost.

So what I am trying to say is that I think we have enough room through selling fringe players to not have to be too concerned about FFP

maybe the Brennan thing is more about us thinking we can put those funds to better use ?

[Salvatore Matrecano]

According to the Athletic

Our rolling 3 year allowable loss for this season is £83m

[wassy04]

According to the Athletic

Our rolling 3 year allowable loss for this season is £83m

Yeah its 35m per season, minus 22m (eg 13m) for EFL seasons as mentioned above. So we still have one EFL season on our FFP numbers. This was a season where we made no sales (as we ended up going up) and will have paid out a large amount of extra costs on promotion bonuses. So we probably went a reasonable amount over the 13m for that year. Hence we may have slightly less room this year until that year is off the FFP calcs.

[TrickySte]

Our operating loss for 21/22 was nearly £50m. There will have been some adjustments for allowable losses but we'll have been miles over £13m.

I'd be surprised if we weren't in breach of the EFL FFP limites for our final 3 years in the Champ as well. Bournemouth & Leicester both got fined for doing similar when they went up.

[wassy04]

Our operating loss for 21/22 was nearly £50m. There will have been some adjustments for allowable losses but we'll have been miles over £13m.

I'd be surprised if we weren't in breach of the EFL FFP limites for our final 3 years in the Champ as well. Bournemouth & Leicester both got fined for doing similar when they went up.

Yeah I think we'd have failed it by around 10m, however that would've been based on the promotion bonuses. I think that might be deemed acceptable. We also would've had the option to sell Brennan in June too, so I think we could argue that. 

I think Swiss Ramble estimated around 19m loss on FFP something like that for 21/22. I'd be surprised if we made a massive loss last year though with the increased TV money, even with the massive wage increase.

[Reds73]

Our operating loss for 21/22 was nearly £50m. There will have been some adjustments for allowable losses but we'll have been miles over £13m.

I'd be surprised if we weren't in breach of the EFL FFP limites for our final 3 years in the Champ as well. Bournemouth & Leicester both got fined for doing similar when they went up.

Yeah I think we'd have failed it by around 10m, however that would've been based on the promotion bonuses. I think that might be deemed acceptable. We also would've had the option to sell Brennan in June too, so I think we could argue that. 

I think Swiss Ramble estimated around 19m loss on FFP something like that for 21/22. I'd be surprised if we made a massive loss last year though with the increased TV money, even with the massive wage increase.

I can’t see how we would have made a loss in last seasons accounts.
TV Money we earned was 124m and overall revenue including that would have been around 160-165m.

Wage bill max 100m
Amortisation amount for last seasons transfers and previous was circa 50m

I think we would have been at least break even last year.