Stevie Cooper

[Magictorch]

Some interesting views expressed here.

Last season was another miracle - I doubt it will happen again for a long time. Deep down inside we all know that this season was going to be extremely tough and in all probability end in relegation (as that happens often now in the Prem). Given we didn't own most of the squad that got us promoted, I believe we have done well to give ourselves a chance. I am though disappointed that we didn't build on the platform we gave ourselves and have safety now in our grasp.

Is Steve as brilliant as some think? Probably not. Is he blameless for the situation we are in now? Absolutely not. Below average away form would have been enough to see us safe. We have been pathetic away from home and ultimately it will be that which sends us down. Steve has not fixed that and he has had plenty of time to do so.

I remain surprised that he is still here. I thought EM would have taken action before now to secure our survival. He should be applauded for his bravery in not doing so as well as his passion (and financial support) for the club. He cares and I'm sure he is as disappointed as us at where we are. I too suspect he regrets not making the change. It staggers me the amount of flack the owner gets. It was him and Cooper and the whole club that took us up and all those that will take us down if it happens. 

I don't want Cooper sacked. I like him and I like his passion and connection with the club. The positivity of last season and this season has been a breath of fresh air after the last 23. If we do go down, I do believe he would give us a great chance of bouncing straight back especially if we can keep the majority of the squad together. The gulf between Prem and Championship is far greater than we thought and I think the players that have struggled at times this season will be far better in the Championship. But he may take a job elsewhere or EM may think we need a change to take us up and to survive in Prem. That will be his call and I will accept it if it happens.

Whatever happens, as fans we need to stick together and support the club whoever the manager or players and maintain the positive atmosphere that has done so much to make the last 18 months a success. It is that as much as anything else that has moved us forwards and will consign us to another 20+ years outside the prem if we return to the toxic atmosphere and infighting of the past.

[Ciscokid]

I applaud your post Magictorch.

[Paplane]

Great post Magic. I agree entirely.

Cooper has been like a breath of fresh air since he came in but would a team of a 'great coach' have conceded 3 goals from set plays the way we did on Saturday? Probably not. Were not doing the basics right and we're at the back end of the season now so there's been plenty of time to sort this kind of stuff out. Cooper has changed formations and players all season but we continue to be terrible away from home. Thats got to be down to coaching, tactics, mental approach.

He's a lovely, genuine bloke and I dont want him sacked but we've got to admit that maybe he's not as good a coach as the fans think, or want to think he is. But that said, next season in the Championship he could do great stuff with us again.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Yes good post Magic.

Pap, yes Cooper has made plenty of mistakes and is nowhere near the messiah he is made out to be. But its his first season in the PL, he is learning as he goes along that the step is bigger than any of us realised. He is for the first time having to manage higher quality and more senior players with bigger egos (as became clear last night), integrate 29 new faces into the club, deal with injuries and backroom change and still get results.

To be honest all things considered he is doing very well. I think he would do quite a lot of things differently in a second premier league season. Whether he gets the chance to do that here I am not so sure.

[wassy04]

Great post Magic. I agree entirely.

Cooper has been like a breath of fresh air since he came in but would a team of a 'great coach' have conceded 3 goals from set plays the way we did on Saturday? Probably not. Were not doing the basics right and we're at the back end of the season now so there's been plenty of time to sort this kind of stuff out. Cooper has changed formations and players all season but we continue to be terrible away from home. Thats got to be down to coaching, tactics, mental approach.

He's a lovely, genuine bloke and I dont want him sacked but we've got to admit that maybe he's not as good a coach as the fans think, or want to think he is. But that said, next season in the Championship he could do great stuff with us again.

I wanted to just touch on your last point as for me it's not about whether he's some generational coach (which I've never really bought in to). For me he's been the best coach we've had since I've been a fan which in itself is enough to want him to stay and reward him for last year and reward him for the positive atmosphere he created.

However, from a more rational perspective and ignoring the points, I also remain of the opinion that whether Cooper is amazing or not (I think he's young and learning at this level still), I don't believe there was a better alternative out there. Emery was never an option for us, is Dyche better? He's got Everton in broadly the same position as Lampard did. Doesn't feel like a long term appointment either or one that would be able to produce the kind of attacking football we saw last year. Rafa, no thanks. Any of the other options post Dyche were either young and unproven (eg Cooper) or Rafa types. Good managers seem less willing to move mid-season at the moment, particularly to relegation candidates and that was born out in the failure of Leeds, Southampton, Leicester and ourselves to find a better option.

[Tricky]

Very well balanced post Magic.

In my opinion, Steve has been let down more by his backroom staff than anything.

Are the coaching methods adequate enough? Is it fair to say our coaching staff are too inexperienced at this level? Are the Physios part of the problem with returning players getting injured again so quickly? Have a lot of the acquisitions over this past season been good enough? If so, were the acquisitions largely down to Steve's naivety or other persons being involved not having the experience to bring in better players? 

Let us delve into the regular criticisms directed at Steve so far this season.......... 

• Sticking with the same formation week after week - Could this be down to the players he has available to him at any given time, largely due to injuries or is he just a stubborn bugger?
  
• Substitutions - Sometimes, we have looked at the bench and wondered what kind of impact any of those players could have on a game midway through. Maybe the same question is being made by Steve, who may have had the bare bones of a squad to pick. What has been happening in training? Are certain players not pulling their weight or showing a lack of effort? Also see the first bullet point.
  
• Personality - I do not ever recalling ever seeing anybody say anything nasty or horrible about Steve. Everybody says what a nice person he is. We all KNOW he is a lovely bloke and he has worked wonders in uniting the fans and the club like never seen before. Even Cloughie had his knockers after him and Pete Taylor parted ways and Forest were renowned through football as having fans that would turn on the team if things weren't going well. Teams would set up to frustrate us in the knowledge our fans would turn. This isn't happening now, so kudos to him for that achievement. But, do the players know this and use his niceness to their advantage and go out and do what they want rather than what was the plan? Are players taking on board their instructions? Or is he too naïve and inexperienced to deal with the rigours and threats that come with Premier League football? 
  

Here's another point to ponder............

Are we, the fans being too unrealistic in our aims for this season? I have taken off my rose (Garibaldi) tinted glasses to do this last part and I want to be as honest as I can with my thoughts here......

Last season we won the Play Off final. We were so lucky to have won that match! Our goal was deflected into the net by an opponent and Huddersfield had 2 really good shouts for a penalty waved away. I believe at least one of those calls should have been given, if not both. We were actually lucky to be at the final. If it hadn't been down to some extraordinary research by Brice Samba, we could've still been in the Championship now, having got to the final by one penalty!.

We went up last season with some really good loanees. Djed Spence, Zinkernagel, Davies, Garner to name but a few. Those players, along with our own squad gelled superbly to bring some entertaining attractive football into our lives. Those players had to go back to their parent clubs. How many of them would have cut the mustard in the PL? I dont think any TBH. Garner is struggling for game time at Everton, Spence is out on loan at Rennes, where he has made just 8 appearances. Zinkernagel is doing well at Standard Liege after a spell at Olympiacos, having scored 9 times in 24 appearances. Zinks was formerly at Watford in the PL and didn't seem to make the cut there, so the jury is out on that one. Many of our exisiting squad players were not deemed good enough for the PL, with the exception of Brice Samba, who wanted to go home to France. It was a scattergun approach to dealing with a promotion we were, by and large, lucky to have won! So we then had the scattergun approach to bringing in an entire new squad of players. Some of the names being bandied around were wetting our juices. Henderson from Man Utd, Liguard preferred to come to us rather than West Ham, £19M for Taiwo Awaniyi (who? never mind he plays in the Bundesliga and costs more than our current transfer record, so he must be good!), Frueler, the Swiss international, Neco Williams from Liverpool (He plays for Wales alongside Brennan, so he must be worth the £17M price tag) and the list goes on. But how many had heard of most of the players we brought in? With the exception of the British players, I personally hadn't heard of any of them! How many others of you were the same? Lets face it! During the summer, all of the selling clubs took the piss out of us royally in terms of the fees being asked for certain players....Awoniyi, Williams, MGW were all vastly overpriced and this is where I feel most of the clubs naivety has harboured from. But who is to blame? Cooper? yes, Marinakis and his son? Yes, others, Yes. So to some extent, they are all to blame. But to what extent? Is this why Steve has so far managed to dodge not one, but two bullets this season? Only the powers that be know the answer to that question.

For me, my expectations have never been very high for this season. We were very lucky to get here. I think we would've been far better prepared for the PL next season, having given Steve more time to build and shape his own squad if we had fallen at the final fence at Wembley last year. I have looked at previous newly promoted sides and have seen just how many have dropped straight back down the following season. Why should we be any different? Because we spent in excess of £150M? We all know that money spent had to be spent. We had no squad at the start of the season. That money could and should have been spent more wisely. Easy to say in hindsight isnt it? But last summer, we didn't know that. Here's something to ponder over........during the summer fans were asking how many CB's did we need as every other signing seemed to be a CB. We had Worrall, Mbe Sow, McKenna, Cook, then we went out and brought some more in. How many are fit now? 3. Nobody saw that coming, but it happened.

At the end of the day, this season will have been a steep learning curve for the club, it's owners and it's fans. Maybe even the manager if he keeps his job. If we do go down, which I think we will, then we are in a good position to challenge to bounce back up. WE ARE NOT ENTITLED TO GO STRAIGHT BACK UP THOUGH. Teams will see us as one of the teams to beat and will in some cases be a cup final for them. Remember 2005-06 in League 1, our first season in the third tier, where we finished in 7th place? We have to set up right and work hard for each other, then if we do go back up, we can better prepare for what we now know, not what we thought we knew. If we do go down, yes, it will be disappointing, but it's not the end of the world as Fulham, Newcastle, Bournemouth, Burnley can testify to.

Any way, I think I've said enough and taken up too much of your time reading it. Thanks for staying with this to the end.

[wassy04]

Good essay, B+!

Just wanted to bring you up on one thing, parachute payments really does have a massive impact in the championship. Therefore the idea we'd have been better prepared if we'd lost in the playoffs is really not true. We'd have had to sell Brennan otherwise we were about to fail FFP, plus he was out of contract. We wouldn't have got Spence etc back either so would've required the same rebuild but with no money or parachute payments.

Going up meant we could spend 150m within the rules and stock the club for years to come. Sure, some were overpays and some won't work out. However, if we do go down we'll have a stacked squad next year and assets with significant resale value still even if we make a loss on those deals. Plus, don't forget we have parachute payments for two years as well which is a massive advantage.

[JollyLolly]

Excellent post Tricky and it pretty well sums up my own thoughts on both this and the previous season. Hope that we are now planning for next season in the Championship as only a magical turn of events can save us now. If we get it right as a complete club all working in the same direction we will bounce back at the first attempt and I will look forward to enjoying matches again.

[Tricky]

Good essay, B+!

Just wanted to bring you up on one thing, parachute payments really does have a massive impact in the championship. Therefore the idea we'd have been better prepared if we'd lost in the playoffs is really not true. We'd have had to sell Brennan otherwise we were about to fail FFP, plus he was out of contract. We wouldn't have got Spence etc back either so would've required the same rebuild but with no money or parachute payments.

Going up meant we could spend 150m within the rules and stock the club for years to come. Sure, some were overpays and some won't work out. However, if we do go down we'll have a stacked squad next year and assets with significant resale value still even if we make a loss on those deals. Plus, don't forget we have parachute payments for two years as well which is a massive advantage.

B+???????????????? That is near perfect grammar FFS!!! At least an A- for content, spelling and grammar Wassy ya tight git!!

[Username]

Yes but 3 months ago most hadn't changed managers, I think only Wolves had done it.

None of this really matters anyway.

We have Steve now and like I said yesterday we will never know now what would have happened if we had changed manager after Leicester away.

Sounds like EM f****d up big time then

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Yes but 3 months ago most hadn't changed managers, I think only Wolves had done it.

None of this really matters anyway.

We have Steve now and like I said yesterday we will never know now what would have happened if we had changed manager after Leicester away.

Sounds like EM f****d up big time then

Not sure why you are being so provocative there is some really good posts and debate going on here.

[RyanR]

Really enjoyed reading the posts here. Nice to see a balanced view.

I have really enjoyed this season, regardless of how it ends. If we stay up I would be over the moon, if we go down then I’ll look forward to next season.

We would start the Championship season with parachute payments (which don’t guarantee success, but really help).

I also think we’d have the bones of a decent squad based on players who would stay:

Horvath

Williams, Worrall, Niakhate, Richards, McKenna, Panzo

Yates, O’Brien, Shelvey (?), Colback

Bowler, MGW, Awoniyi, Wood, Dennis (?)

Obviously we may not keep all of those players, but I think it’s not too unrealistic. We’d also likely bring in some more quality.