Stevie Cooper

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

You seem determined that Cooper is to blame for our current plight Sniffer? If you dont mind me reminding you were of a similar opinion back in September and if not actually saying Cooper Out I think its fair to say you were firmly in the “we can do better” camp.

No other possibilities?
Giraldi for example?
Or maybe we do have a weak squad?

I do get where you are going on the other thread about players not being improved and that we seem currently to be going backwards. That bit I have no answer to.
I wonder if there is a lack of PL experience on the coaching staff too.

Still think the sheer quantity and turnover of new squad members is an issue. Last years success was very much built on a small core playing squad. Those players definitely improved. As have MGW, Johnson Yates and I would say Taiwo and Lodi too. Others are clearly struggling to adapt.

Although I thought Wood and Shelvey were sound at the time I have to say with hindsight I think they are both poor buys and have significantly disrupted the squad. Were they Cooper’s choice? No idea but if they were I dont think he did his homework properly.

Anyhow rewind a few weeks everyone was lauding Cooper. On MOTD they actually mentioned him as potential future England manager. Same old problem in football no manager is more than 6 losing games away from the sack.

No I don't like to blame or single out individuals SM.

It is a collective responsibility, we win together, we lose together, therefore I think Steve is partly to blame but no way is he the only one to blame for our current plight. The thing is that some (not on here) think that the sun shines out of his arse and that he can do no wrong, well that is not the case.

Some also seem to think that Steve Cooper is bigger than Nottingham Forest, well he isn't. Some appear to be Steve Cooper fans ahead of being a Nottingham Forest fan. All this frustrates the shit out of me and perhaps I get misunderstood sometimes. I took off my rose tinted specs after the West Ham shambles.

Look, hand and heart I don't want anyone sacked, I want us winning football matches and I want us in the PL. I want Steve Cooper to succeed and if we start winning games and we stay up I will give him all the credit he deserves.

However if we keep losing football matches, keep playing shit boring tactics, can't string 2 passes together, keep picking strange team selections and keep making shit substitutions and losing and we get relegated then why shouldn't we question him.

That is all I want to say, I am not looking for a row I am just being honest and passionate about our current situation. I have no problems with those who don't agree with me. You all know me well enough now I love a bit of hard talk.

[Reds73]

Wood shouldn't have dispruted the squad. He should have been phased in like any other new player is to a squad. Cooper chose to stick him in for the full 90 right from the off including against Bournemouth when he hadn't even trained with the squad. Thats mental.

Cooper keeps us up he will be lauded again as a football genius. There is no doubt our squad is one of if not the weakest in the league and a lot of money has been wasted on players who are not good enough. I suspect with all that money spent that if we go down it is going to have very serious financial consequences for the club. It will be disastrous.

It won’t be financially disastrous in terms of the stability of the club.
The vast majority of the big contracts we don’t have a liability on for either longer than this season or next.
Couple that with being able to get at least 70m combined for Johnson and MGW and 70m parachute payments for next 2 years and were absolutely fine.

ANYWAY - WE ARENT GOING DOWN !

[Salvatore Matrecano]

You seem determined that Cooper is to blame for our current plight Sniffer? If you dont mind me reminding you were of a similar opinion back in September and if not actually saying Cooper Out I think its fair to say you were firmly in the “we can do better” camp.

No other possibilities?
Giraldi for example?
Or maybe we do have a weak squad?

I do get where you are going on the other thread about players not being improved and that we seem currently to be going backwards. That bit I have no answer to.
I wonder if there is a lack of PL experience on the coaching staff too.

Still think the sheer quantity and turnover of new squad members is an issue. Last years success was very much built on a small core playing squad. Those players definitely improved. As have MGW, Johnson Yates and I would say Taiwo and Lodi too. Others are clearly struggling to adapt.

Although I thought Wood and Shelvey were sound at the time I have to say with hindsight I think they are both poor buys and have significantly disrupted the squad. Were they Cooper’s choice? No idea but if they were I dont think he did his homework properly.

Anyhow rewind a few weeks everyone was lauding Cooper. On MOTD they actually mentioned him as potential future England manager. Same old problem in football no manager is more than 6 losing games away from the sack.

No I don't like to blame or single out individuals SM.

It is a collective responsibility, we win together, we lose together, therefore I think Steve is partly to blame but no way is he the only one to blame for our current plight. The thing is that some (not on here) think that the sun shines out of his arse and that he can do no wrong, well that is not the case.

Some also seem to think that Steve Cooper is bigger than Nottingham Forest, well he isn't. Some appear to be Steve Cooper fans ahead of being a Nottingham Forest fan. All this frustrates the S**t out of me and perhaps I get misunderstood sometimes. I took off my rose tinted specs after the West Ham shambles.

Look, hand and heart I don't want anyone sacked, I want us winning football matches and I want us in the PL. I want Steve Cooper to succeed and if we start winning games and we stay up I will give him all the credit he deserves.

However if we keep losing football matches, keep playing S**t boring tactics, can't string 2 passes together, keep picking strange team selections and keep making S**t substitutions and losing and we get relegated then why shouldn't we question him.

That is all I want to say, I am not looking for a row I am just being honest and passionate about our current situation. I have no problems with those who don't agree with me. You all know me well enough now I love a bit of hard talk.

You know I always back Cooper, Sniff but I agree with your reply entirely.

To be honest you could probably show it to Cooper himself and I reckon he would agree with you.

[wassy04]

You seem determined that Cooper is to blame for our current plight Sniffer? If you dont mind me reminding you were of a similar opinion back in September and if not actually saying Cooper Out I think its fair to say you were firmly in the “we can do better” camp.

No other possibilities?
Giraldi for example?
Or maybe we do have a weak squad?

I do get where you are going on the other thread about players not being improved and that we seem currently to be going backwards. That bit I have no answer to.
I wonder if there is a lack of PL experience on the coaching staff too.

Still think the sheer quantity and turnover of new squad members is an issue. Last years success was very much built on a small core playing squad. Those players definitely improved. As have MGW, Johnson Yates and I would say Taiwo and Lodi too. Others are clearly struggling to adapt.

Although I thought Wood and Shelvey were sound at the time I have to say with hindsight I think they are both poor buys and have significantly disrupted the squad. Were they Cooper’s choice? No idea but if they were I dont think he did his homework properly.

Anyhow rewind a few weeks everyone was lauding Cooper. On MOTD they actually mentioned him as potential future England manager. Same old problem in football no manager is more than 6 losing games away from the sack.

No I don't like to blame or single out individuals SM.

It is a collective responsibility, we win together, we lose together, therefore I think Steve is partly to blame but no way is he the only one to blame for our current plight. The thing is that some (not on here) think that the sun shines out of his arse and that he can do no wrong, well that is not the case.

Some also seem to think that Steve Cooper is bigger than Nottingham Forest, well he isn't. Some appear to be Steve Cooper fans ahead of being a Nottingham Forest fan. All this frustrates the S**t out of me and perhaps I get misunderstood sometimes. I took off my rose tinted specs after the West Ham shambles.

Look, hand and heart I don't want anyone sacked, I want us winning football matches and I want us in the PL. I want Steve Cooper to succeed and if we start winning games and we stay up I will give him all the credit he deserves.

However if we keep losing football matches, keep playing S**t boring tactics, can't string 2 passes together, keep picking strange team selections and keep making S**t substitutions and losing and we get relegated then why shouldn't we question him.

That is all I want to say, I am not looking for a row I am just being honest and passionate about our current situation. I have no problems with those who don't agree with me. You all know me well enough now I love a bit of hard talk.

You know I always back Cooper, Sniff but I agree with your reply entirely.

To be honest you could probably show it to Cooper himself and I reckon he would agree with you.

I don't think Cooper is immune from criticism however there's also plenty of things he's got criticised for that were later vindicated or has just been criticised for in both directions.

Criticised for picking Jonno early in the year when struggling, clearly has worked out.
Criticised for not picking Dennis, who whilst offering glimpses of ability has been very frustrating overall.
Criticised for not picking Freuler, criticised for picking Freuler. 
Criticised for being too open, criticised for being too defensive. Criticised for not picking a proper striker, criticised for picking a proper striker.
Criticised for player a front three of Brennan, MGW, Lingard, then later for not.
Criticised for playing Taiwo as a left winger/forward, which for 2 games seemed to actually unlock him.

He played the fans team more or less on Friday and we were probably the worst we've been (although did almost get a battling point regardless which I commend them for despite the poor performance, can't say they don't work for it)

There are legitimate criticisms in there of course but my point has always been they get drowned out by the above type of things. For what it's worth I thought Taiwo as a left winger was bizarre at the time, I didn't like the false 9 strikeforce, I thought Jonno may need to be taken out and I thought 4231 would probably be our best available tactics with the players available. All of these things have been disproven so this is why I think you need to qualify any criticism and be really careful to add mitigation. I'm sorry if that doesn't fit the panic every time we lost narrative either.

(if you want legit criticisms, he clearly stuck with 352 too long at the start which cost us vs Bournemouth/Fulham. I agree Wood shouldn't have come straight in and when he did he should've adjusted the tactics to accommodate him rather than play him in the same position as Taiwo. I think despite how incredibly irritating Dennis is and the fact he clearly didn't want him, he should've played ball and given him more games as we were always going to need him in some capacity and he's been a bit too stubborn on that front, hopefully these things get disproven too!)

The recent one of we keep setting up too defensively was surely completely disproven by the performance on Friday and how easily Newcastle slaughtered us down our left side. Then again tactics could still work with players fit/available and one game in a new system against 4th place is probably not a great sample size. So another easy decision on team against Wolves then!

[Salvatore Matrecano]

A thought and a theory, please dont put too much emphasis on it…but is Cooper actually bowing to pressure either from Social media or from someone within the club who is saying effectively what we are on here?

He plays his gut instinct, it doesnt work, gets criticised, changes against his better judgement for the next game which proves the wrong decision again.

Example, plays 3 defensive mids vs Everton. Criticised, goes more attacking vs Newcastle
Freuler gets criticised (guilty here! ) drops him
Worrall gets criticised, drops him
Plays false 9 system, gets criticised, changes it

He has proved us wrong before. Maybe he needs to stick to his principles and ride it out. The chopping and changing doesn’t seem to be working to the extent he no longer seems to know his preferred team or his preferred formation.

[wassy04]

A thought and a theory, please dont put too much emphasis on it…but is Cooper actually bowing to pressure either from Social media or from someone within the club who is saying effectively what we are on here?

He plays his gut instinct, it doesnt work, gets criticised, changes against his better judgement for the next game which proves the wrong decision again.

Example, plays 3 defensive mids vs Everton. Criticised, goes more attacking vs Newcastle
Freuler gets criticised (guilty here! ) drops him
Worrall gets criticised, drops him
Plays false 9 system, gets criticised, changes it

He has proved us wrong before. Maybe he needs to stick to his principles and ride it out. The chopping and changing doesn’t seem to be working to the extent he no longer seems to know his preferred team or his preferred formation.

Yep, pretty much what I was saying. I don't think many would disagree we've looked best this year when we had a consistent team selection for a run of about 6-8 games before injuries took over. Basically after that victory in the league cup over Spurs.

We had consistency in CM with Yates, Kouyate and Freuler. Consistency at CB with Boly and Worrall and consistency in attack with Brennan, MGW and Taiwo.

I'm sure that would've broadly been the team for the season without the injuries.

It seems like now is a good time with the break and returning players that he can potentially pick something close to the above (Felipe in for Worrall an upgrade too) and just stick with it.

[JollyLolly]

Wassy, at last you agree with some of the comments I make on this forum. Like you and probably many others it was obvious Friday night from very early on in the match that we were getting overload on our left hand side defensively as most attacks were mounted from there. I said as much in the after match comments but SC and the coaching staff did not make any changes so it continued all game. When Yates went off, Danilo (I my opinion) should have come on and played left side midfield as he is left footed has good pace and could help Lodi both defensively and the attack in equal measures. If I could see that situation why was SC unable to change that and this is the point why many are questioning if he can make the move from very good Championship manager to PL status, I am unsure if he is able or experienced at this time, maybe in a few years time?

[wassy04]

Wassy, at last you agree with some of the comments I make on this forum. Like you and probably many others it was obvious Friday night from very early on in the match that we were getting overload on our left hand side defensively as most attacks were mounted from there. I said as much in the after match comments but SC and the coaching staff did not make any changes so it continued all game. When Yates went off, Danilo (I my opinion) should have come on and played left side midfield as he is left footed has good pace and could help Lodi both defensively and the attack in equal measures. If I could see that situation why was SC unable to change that and this is the point why many are questioning if he can make the move from very good Championship manager to PL status, I am unsure if he is able or experienced at this time, maybe in a few years time?

You were also complaining that we weren't attacking enough and needed to play on the front foot etc up until this game though? So he can't win really can he? Doesn't this just show how limited the options are regardless?

What was he going to do, bring off Dennis after 20 mins? The weakness was a combination of Shelvey and Dennis being unable to provide adequate cover (and Dennis repeatedly giving it away). I'm not convinced Danilo coming on over Freuler would've had much if any impact. It's a fair point that he could've taken any one of Shelvey, Dennis, MGW or Brennan off earlier than the Dennis sub.

I think at 1-1 it would've been a bit of a shock if MGW was subbed though, despite his performance. Brennan didn't really look fully fit so perhaps should've come off but did have that chance near the end so who knows.

He actually did change things anyway when he brought Neco on and we had a couple of decent half chances and looked more solid for the final 10 mins.

[JollyLolly]

Hear what you say Wassy, but by stopping the continual threat to the LHS of our defence would ensure that Newcastle's game plan would have to change which means that Forest are on the front foot by forcing an issue which does not happen based on your argument. I still maintain as you say that I was complaining weeks ago that we should be more attack minded, for example we were so negative from the kick-off against Wet Spam it became our eventual downfall and we seem to have been spiralling downward since. What is also evident is that so many supporters are thinking along the same lines, we simply have to change or the inevitable will happen, just don't leave it to the last few games when all is lost. SC also need to be so much more proactive with subs when players are simply not performing in games, I believe the Forest fans will support him even if he gets in wrong but as long as its just not apparent favourite players when there are better alternatives but for some reason he does not go with the obvious?

[Sausage Roll]

Spanish press reporting that Forest were prepared to sack Cooper this week and replace him with Marcelino García Toral.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

[quote="Sausage Roll" pid='188045' dateline='1679609020']
Spanish press reporting that Forest were prepared to sack Cooper this week and replace him with Marcelino García Toral.

^ BS

[Paplane]

I dunno. I half belive it. Is the big man going to watch the club go down the toilet and not try to intervene?