NFFC News None Transfer Related
Let’s just temper that.

Had we signed Johnson from a rival this summer - the outstanding talent in the championship last year for say £25-£30m - would he be bunched with the failure signings…

Again Worrall and Yates - say a combined £25-30m for a player in team of the year and a consistent CH at championship level. That is what the going rate is…

What would our assessment be?

FWIW - zink, garner and Davies were a mistake not to sign from my point of view.

LOB and Mangala - look decent to me but both small which does us on corners and set pieces.

Niakhate- looked a decent signing- injured.

Dennis - scored on home debut- has scored goals in prem before.

It is way too early to judge and who is to say these players won’t become good EPL players. Is everyone really writing off Williams MGW and BJ after 9 games at this level and at their age.

Astonishing!
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Sorry sniff - thread is non transfer related!
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(12-10-2022, 11:17 AM)ozzyten10 Wrote: Let’s just temper that.

Had we signed Johnson from a rival this summer - the outstanding talent in the championship last year for say £25-£30m - would he be bunched with the failure signings…

Again Worrall and Yates - say a combined £25-30m for a player in team of the year and a consistent CH at championship level. That is what the going rate is…

What would our assessment be?

FWIW - zink, garner and Davies were a mistake not to sign from my point of view.

LOB and Mangala - look decent to me but both small which does us on corners and set pieces.

Niakhate- looked a decent signing- injured.

Dennis - scored on home debut- has scored goals in prem before.

It is way too early to judge and who is to say these players won’t become good EPL players. Is everyone really writing off Williams MGW and BJ after 9 games at this level and at their age.

Astonishing!

So if we've got good players and we're bottom of the league then something else must be wrong. It's got to be the coach then?
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We need to compare Like for Like.

Johnson was a stand out player in the Championship and in League 1.

Now up against PL opposition, he is bloody hopeless.


It is crazy to say "We should have signed Zinc and Davis and Spence" because quite likely they too would look crap against PL opposition.

Watford dumped Zinc as not good enough, Villa dumped Davis as not good enough and Spence has played for a few seconds..........thats what they are rated at.

You cannot compare performances in different leagues............

So far in the PL of the 3..........only Yates is looking ok............both Worrall and Johnson look out of their depth.

We are in the PL..........its not easy.
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This is the thing, Niakhate is good signing, he has been very good in a battling Mainz side, 26 and Senegalese international. Orel Mangala, again, stand out player in a very decent Stuttgart team, international and 24.

On paper you cant argue with these signings and it is exactly the approach you would want but they will take time to adapt and of course injuries havent helped.

Awoniyi i think is the real sticking point, its alot of money to shell out on the wrong type of striker (hold the ball up style we are desperately lacking).

As people have said the real disappointments have been the likes of Neco, Lingard and to some extent henderson who all have prem experience and should be better. Im not sure thats at Syrianos door tbh.
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It's like I said before we are not supposed to be here.
We were not ready or prepared to go up it was not in the script.
It was such a short close season too because of the play off's and the early start to the PL because of the World Cup.
It all plays a roll in where we currently find ourselves.
Panic on the streets of London
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got to agree which is why patience was needed not looking for scapegoats
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(12-10-2022, 01:34 PM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote: It's like I said before we are not supposed to be here.
We were not ready or prepared to go up it was not in the script.
It was such a short close season too because of the play off's and the early start to the PL because of the World Cup.
It all plays a roll in where we currently find ourselves.

At the end of the season we went into the play off tournament as favourites. That was what 3 or 4 weeks before the day of the final? I dont buy the argument we were somehow hindered due to timescales. Discussions with agents can take place at any time.
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(12-10-2022, 01:44 PM)Paplane Wrote:
(12-10-2022, 01:34 PM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote: It's like I said before we are not supposed to be here.
We were not ready or prepared to go up it was not in the script.
It was such a short close season too because of the play off's and the early start to the PL because of the World Cup.
It all plays a roll in where we currently find ourselves.

At the end of the season we went into the play off tournament as favourites. That was what 3 or 4 weeks before the day of the final? I dont buy the argument we were somehow hindered due to timescales. Discussions with agents can take place at any time.

Not just about discussions with agents though Pap. Other teams player's were already on the beach when we were still playing.
Then there is the really short pre season to work with all the new player's. Other clubs with a settled squad would have dealt much better with that short pre season than what we did because we had to completely overhaul our squad.
Panic on the streets of London
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(12-10-2022, 01:48 PM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote:
(12-10-2022, 01:44 PM)Paplane Wrote:
(12-10-2022, 01:34 PM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote: It's like I said before we are not supposed to be here.
We were not ready or prepared to go up it was not in the script.
It was such a short close season too because of the play off's and the early start to the PL because of the World Cup.
It all plays a roll in where we currently find ourselves.

At the end of the season we went into the play off tournament as favourites. That was what 3 or 4 weeks before the day of the final? I dont buy the argument we were somehow hindered due to timescales. Discussions with agents can take place at any time.

Not just about discussions with agents though Pap. Other teams player's were already on the beach when we were still playing.
Then there is the really short pre season to work with all the new player's. Other clubs with a settled squad would have dealt much better with that short pre season than what we did because we had to completely overhaul our squad.

Point taken. Our pre-season games were hugely disappointing.
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(12-10-2022, 01:44 PM)Paplane Wrote:
(12-10-2022, 01:34 PM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote: It's like I said before we are not supposed to be here.
We were not ready or prepared to go up it was not in the script.
It was such a short close season too because of the play off's and the early start to the PL because of the World Cup.
It all plays a roll in where we currently find ourselves.

At the end of the season we went into the play off tournament as favourites. That was what 3 or 4 weeks before the day of the final? I dont buy the argument we were somehow hindered due to timescales. Discussions with agents can take place at any time.

All because we were favourites in the play-off final didn't make us a dead cert to being promoted so in reality we couldn't sort out premiership capable players until the win was in the bag. As for talking to agents at any time why waste the time and effort of organising a signing player for the premier league until we did know we were getting there. We could've been trying to get players in to get us promoted from the championship. I'm with Sniffer here where none of whats happening now is what was planned for. I think patience and a little bit of good luck will see us good and what I saw the other night was we were playing half decent football and believe me when I say we weren't great but just a few moments. At the end of the day we are only 5 points off mid table and its a blessing that other teams are making a pigs ear as well as us.
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(12-10-2022, 10:25 AM)Paplane Wrote:
(12-10-2022, 09:46 AM)wassy04 Wrote:
(12-10-2022, 09:34 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: Agree with all of that Sniff and of course thats what happens in an ideal world. The trouble is it would seem from team selections that Cooper definitely wasnt on board with a fair number of them.

My own argument falls down here because some of those not deemed good enough were clearly Syriano’s choice eg Biancone. Then there was the Richards fiasco and the fact that Williams aint worth anything near what we paid. I cannot defend any of that.

To cut to the chase I worry about the future direction. It just seemed we were getting it right at last, but now we have sacked those responsible for getting us promotion at the first time of asking. Just think they deserved a bit more gratitude and time.

Also, worth noting that it's way too early to write off any of the players we've signed as busts. Players take time to settle, plus some of them (Neco for example) are very young. These are still good assets, so their lack of immediate value doesn't mean they won't add value in the future.

Bit of a coincidence though that not one single new player seems to have caught the eye in any way Wassy. Not one. Players have come into the side and been dropped. Or they've been injured. If I can see it then I'm sure EM can. And he's the one that's spent an absolute fortune. He's entitled to ask questions. I would be.

Like it or not, he's going to want some blood for that.

I'm struggling to understand how you believe a new squad of 22 players are expected to be playing like Brazil and marching up the league...  We are what we are, a team, and by the looks of it with recent sackings, a club in transition, again!

The spirit of last season evaporated as quick as the money was spent building the squad to what it is today, again, a team in transition. Players were still coming through the door during the season.

But "not one player has caught the eye?" I've missed 1 game this season and to my knowledge  O'Brien has had one bad game he's played. MGW has shown his worth, at the beginning of the season Henderson was England's No1, Mangala prior to his injury stood out as did Niakahte. Williams granted has dropped off in recent games but prior to that people were saying Djed who? and I'd have to agree with them. Freuler i like, he's not had much game time but has just started to show his quality. He goes on International duty with familiar faces and puts in solid performances. Awonyi  should be on 4 or more goals so far, has been a little disappointing. Hasn't been clinical enough, he scores the others he'd prob have a free pass now. Dennis, barely had a chance, needs a run of games as do others. I won't go through them all but i don't think any one have been at the levels or that fateful Jan window some seasons ago. We've got the making of a very good squad, in time, something we sadly something we have in short supply.  Many factors on why we are struggling but the main one is it's a beast of a league that suffers nobody. Norwich and Fulham know all too well about that.

If I'm going to moan i could say Mckenna's short pass which cost us a point, and Worrall's poor positioning for the Everton's equalizer have cost us dearly. We could be sitting on 9 points now but mistakes from our own who at times have had below par games, along with Yates and Brennan. If these players who are meant to be setting the tone of the team and are struggling, you could forgive other players who have been here 5 minutes.
Lingard you could say has bombed so far. My Manure supporting pal said if the chips are down he is not what you want and it's been exactly the case. We've seen flashes of what he's about but that's not good enough at 100k a week. I'd have been fine with just MGW. On reflection that money could have and should gone on Garner who was settled at the club but we decided to go for a marquee signing.
The club will have to assess and reflect on whether Lingard was worth it on both a footballing and commercial level... which considering we still haven't got a Sponsor the latter suggests not. Tongue in cheek!!!!

We've got a very strong squad now and if the worse was to happen it would make a refreshing change to be the club with the big parachute payments challenging for the top 2. I'm not writing this season off but i am quietly optimistic should we go down, Provided the club still have a long-term view and have clubs like Fulham in mind when reviewing the season, we'll be fine.

I'm not going to get into EM and him being pissed off. It's just not worth the hassle.

The one thing i will say on reflection is it was a mistake not trying harder to keep Samba, i think we are missing his distribution and personality. At a guess, I'd say he was a huge loss in the changing rooms as well, I do miss him.
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