Stevie Cooper

[wassy04]

I'm  shocked that there are even discussions about Cooper's job already. I do understand that we have lost three in a row and that the Bournemouth second half has us all puzzled, and that the Big Man can pull the trigger quickly, but surely it is madness to be even discussing his position. We have had really good for pretty much a full year now and it is depressing how quickly some fans fall into that negative mindset (I accept that some could call this the realistic mindset of the Premier League). 

We really have got to continue to give the team and Cooper the time and space to work out his best side. Despite the size of the squad, he has been dealt two big injury blows in terms of Mangala and Niakate (both certain starters I think). 

I'm sure he will get us in the right direction, given time and I hope he is given it.

A few questions here:

1. Why do we have to give Cooper the time and space to work out his best side? Its literally his job. If we do, precisely how much time is actually needed?
2. How sure are you that he will get us in the right direction and, what is the right direction? 50%, 75%, 90%, 100%?
3. Does this mean that he should be given time to take us down and attempt to bring us back up again? At what point does the reality of a situation overtake a strong overwhelming belief.

1. Yes it is his job, doesn't mean it is an easy one that will happen overnight. It will take training and game time to do this. I would estimate 10 games if you want an arbitrary figure. Worth noting the squad has constantly been evolving until the window closed making it more difficult, plus the injuries to two players that appeared to be first choice.
2. If the right direction is staying up, I'd same I'm about 60% sure if he remained in charge of us staying up right now, probably more due to the other teams around us having decent starts. If it is long term making the club successful at this level, if given time (including a relegation) I'd be about 95% certain we'd stabilise the following year. 
3. Yes, I believe it does, I think he has earned the opportunity. Also, if we were to go down, he would surely be the perfect candidate to lead us back up. There's plenty of evidence of this happening at other clubs successfully too. 

One thing to add, why is everyone fearing relegation so much. Going down and being the best team in the championship would likely be a much more enjoyable experience. I know from a fair few Norwich fans which seasons they prefer!

[jason]

Give your head a shake about more enjoyable do you think the owners want that ffs

[wassy04]

Give your head a shake about more enjoyable do you think the owners want that ffs

I don't think that no, not sure how that affects how much I enjoy it though?

[TrentEnd]

I'm  shocked that there are even discussions about Cooper's job already. I do understand that we have lost three in a row and that the Bournemouth second half has us all puzzled, and that the Big Man can pull the trigger quickly, but surely it is madness to be even discussing his position. We have had really good for pretty much a full year now and it is depressing how quickly some fans fall into that negative mindset (I accept that some could call this the realistic mindset of the Premier League). 

We really have got to continue to give the team and Cooper the time and space to work out his best side. Despite the size of the squad, he has been dealt two big injury blows in terms of Mangala and Niakate (both certain starters I think). 

I'm sure he will get us in the right direction, given time and I hope he is given it.

A few questions here:

1. Why do we have to give Cooper the time and space to work out his best side? Its literally his job. If we do, precisely how much time is actually needed?
2. How sure are you that he will get us in the right direction and, what is the right direction? 50%, 75%, 90%, 100%?
3. Does this mean that he should be given time to take us down and attempt to bring us back up again? At what point does the reality of a situation overtake a strong overwhelming belief.

1. Agreed. it is his job, but the transfer window has only just shut. He surely needs some time to figure out combinations on the pitch? If all the signings are not his (I don't know if this is the case or not) he will need to see what those players that he did not necessarily choose can do.

2. I'm not sure! He has done a great job thus far (bar the second half against Bournemouth) so no reason to doubt him. There seem plenty of people in football who know a lot more than me, that think he is a good manager. This is the first time he has managed in the Prem, so he will need some time to figure things out and learn lessons. We rarely go up in standard in anything we do and nail it straight away.

3. Interesting question. Unless it is an unmitigated disaster, I'd rather keep him and give him the chance to take us back up. Presumably, he would then have a squad that he know, and we would not need wholesale changes like we have had this summer.

Back to my original post, I did'nt mean that anyone here is calling for his head now, but the fact that his future is being discussed at all, after all the changes in the playing staff and all the good work he has done up to now, is surprising. I think we all knew that we were likely to lose to Spurs and Citeh. We were not at the races against Newcastle but did okay against West Ham and Everton. This means we are left with the dreadful second half against Bournemouth as a source of some of the disgruntlement. Just saying it seems a bit odd/harsh

[Username]

I'm  shocked that there are even discussions about Cooper's job already. I do understand that we have lost three in a row and that the Bournemouth second half has us all puzzled, and that the Big Man can pull the trigger quickly, but surely it is madness to be even discussing his position. We have had really good for pretty much a full year now and it is depressing how quickly some fans fall into that negative mindset (I accept that some could call this the realistic mindset of the Premier League). 

We really have got to continue to give the team and Cooper the time and space to work out his best side. Despite the size of the squad, he has been dealt two big injury blows in terms of Mangala and Niakate (both certain starters I think). 

I'm sure he will get us in the right direction, given time and I hope he is given it.

A few questions here:

1. Why do we have to give Cooper the time and space to work out his best side? Its literally his job. If we do, precisely how much time is actually needed?
2. How sure are you that he will get us in the right direction and, what is the right direction? 50%, 75%, 90%, 100%?
3. Does this mean that he should be given time to take us down and attempt to bring us back up again? At what point does the reality of a situation overtake a strong overwhelming belief.

1. Yes it is his job, doesn't mean it is an easy one that will happen overnight. It will take training and game time to do this. I would estimate 10 games if you want an arbitrary figure. Worth noting the squad has constantly been evolving until the window closed making it more difficult, plus the injuries to two players that appeared to be first choice.
2. If the right direction is staying up, I'd same I'm about 60% sure if he remained in charge of us staying up right now, probably more due to the other teams around us having decent starts. If it is long term making the club successful at this level, if given time (including a relegation) I'd be about 95% certain we'd stabilise the following year. 
3. Yes, I believe it does, I think he has earned the opportunity. Also, if we were to go down, he would surely be the perfect candidate to lead us back up. There's plenty of evidence of this happening at other clubs successfully too. 

One thing to add, why is everyone fearing relegation so much. Going down and being the best team in the championship would likely be a much more enjoyable experience. I know from a fair few Norwich fans which seasons they prefer!

We haven’t approached the Premier League like Norwich, we have spent and spent big, the buffer they use in the Championship has largely been spent. The risks if we get this wrong could be colossal.

[Username]

I'm  shocked that there are even discussions about Cooper's job already. I do understand that we have lost three in a row and that the Bournemouth second half has us all puzzled, and that the Big Man can pull the trigger quickly, but surely it is madness to be even discussing his position. We have had really good for pretty much a full year now and it is depressing how quickly some fans fall into that negative mindset (I accept that some could call this the realistic mindset of the Premier League). 

We really have got to continue to give the team and Cooper the time and space to work out his best side. Despite the size of the squad, he has been dealt two big injury blows in terms of Mangala and Niakate (both certain starters I think). 

I'm sure he will get us in the right direction, given time and I hope he is given it.

A few questions here:

1. Why do we have to give Cooper the time and space to work out his best side? Its literally his job. If we do, precisely how much time is actually needed?
2. How sure are you that he will get us in the right direction and, what is the right direction? 50%, 75%, 90%, 100%?
3. Does this mean that he should be given time to take us down and attempt to bring us back up again? At what point does the reality of a situation overtake a strong overwhelming belief.

1. Agreed. it is his job, but the transfer window has only just shut. He surely needs some time to figure out combinations on the pitch? If all the signings are not his (I don't know if this is the case or not) he will need to see what those players that he did not necessarily choose can do.

2. I'm not sure! He has done a great job thus far (bar the second half against Bournemouth) so no reason to doubt him. There seem plenty of people in football who know a lot more than me, that think he is a good manager. This is the first time he has managed in the Prem, so he will need some time to figure things out and learn lessons. We rarely go up in standard in anything we do and nail it straight away.

3. Interesting question. Unless it is an unmitigated disaster, I'd rather keep him and give him the chance to take us back up. Presumably, he would then have a squad that he know, and we would not need wholesale changes like we have had this summer.

Back to my original post, I did'nt mean that anyone here is calling for his head now, but the fact that his future is being discussed at all, after all the changes in the playing staff and all the good work he has done up to now, is surprising. I think we all knew that we were likely to lose to Spurs and Citeh. We were not at the races against Newcastle but did okay against West Ham and Everton. This means we are left with the dreadful second half against Bournemouth as a source of some of the disgruntlement. Just saying it seems a bit odd/harsh

You did use the word sure, hence why I used it. I was quoting you. 

I have touched upon the risk of relegation in my response to Wassy. 

Anyone thinking that is an acceptable strategy needs to give their head a wobble.

[wassy04]

I'm  shocked that there are even discussions about Cooper's job already. I do understand that we have lost three in a row and that the Bournemouth second half has us all puzzled, and that the Big Man can pull the trigger quickly, but surely it is madness to be even discussing his position. We have had really good for pretty much a full year now and it is depressing how quickly some fans fall into that negative mindset (I accept that some could call this the realistic mindset of the Premier League). 

We really have got to continue to give the team and Cooper the time and space to work out his best side. Despite the size of the squad, he has been dealt two big injury blows in terms of Mangala and Niakate (both certain starters I think). 

I'm sure he will get us in the right direction, given time and I hope he is given it.

A few questions here:

1. Why do we have to give Cooper the time and space to work out his best side? Its literally his job. If we do, precisely how much time is actually needed?
2. How sure are you that he will get us in the right direction and, what is the right direction? 50%, 75%, 90%, 100%?
3. Does this mean that he should be given time to take us down and attempt to bring us back up again? At what point does the reality of a situation overtake a strong overwhelming belief.

1. Yes it is his job, doesn't mean it is an easy one that will happen overnight. It will take training and game time to do this. I would estimate 10 games if you want an arbitrary figure. Worth noting the squad has constantly been evolving until the window closed making it more difficult, plus the injuries to two players that appeared to be first choice.
2. If the right direction is staying up, I'd same I'm about 60% sure if he remained in charge of us staying up right now, probably more due to the other teams around us having decent starts. If it is long term making the club successful at this level, if given time (including a relegation) I'd be about 95% certain we'd stabilise the following year. 
3. Yes, I believe it does, I think he has earned the opportunity. Also, if we were to go down, he would surely be the perfect candidate to lead us back up. There's plenty of evidence of this happening at other clubs successfully too. 

One thing to add, why is everyone fearing relegation so much. Going down and being the best team in the championship would likely be a much more enjoyable experience. I know from a fair few Norwich fans which seasons they prefer!

We haven’t approached the Premier League like Norwich, we have spent and spent big, the buffer they use in the Championship has largely been spent. The risks if we get this wrong could be colossal.

It worked fine for Fulham doing the same thing. 

We've signed 21 players, the majority of which will have a decent resale value. Just look at the value of Anthony Gordon to get an idea of how much we could get for our Brennan for example in the future. 

Brennan, MGW, Mangala etc all have a large resale value. There's others in there that would be likely also get us a decent fee if we needed to sell.

The only risk I can see is if in the event of relegation, EM decided he no longer wanted to fund losses. Given their recent actions, I really don't see this is a large risk.

[wassy04]

Horvath
McKenna Worrall Panzo
Williams Yates O'Brien Toffolo (or Richards)
Dennis Awoniyi Bowler

Just a hypothetical championship team we'd have without the majority of the players signed. I'd think we can recoup decent value for the players not included above and we'd likely end up with a massive accounting profit due to amortisation.

Not saying I want this, just thought it was a fun exercise to speculate on how much better our team would look than previous years.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

We are off topic now but resale value largely depends on players performing individually even if results are poor. Thats why Dennis was worth £20m (think we overpaid actually) from a relegted team.
If MGW scores 15 but we go down we will get our money back. If he only scores 2 we might have the most expensive player in the Championship.
Fact is we have already spent in excess of our PL windfall for 3 years if you combine transfers, wages and agent fees.
Its a statement of intent by the owners but also a heck of a gamble and they dont want it backfiring.

[wassy04]

We are off topic now but resale value largely depends on players performing individually even if results are poor. Thats why Dennis was worth £20m (think we overpaid actually) from a relegted team.
If MGW scores 15 but we go down we will get our money back. If he only scores 2 we might have the most expensive player in the Championship.
Fact is we have already spent in excess of our PL windfall for 3 years if you combine transfers, wages and agent fees.
Its a statement of intent by the owners but also a heck of a gamble and they dont want it backfiring.

Is Dennis not a perfect example of how easy it would be to sell players next summer if necessary for way above their actual worth?! Scored a few goals, not an amazing player for a poor side, still got 20m!

You're right my point was that I left about half the squad off that team and still put an elite championship team out. You've got assume some of them will carry decent value, enough to cover the losses for at least the first few years along with very generous parachute payments.

[optimistic_red]

We are off topic now but resale value largely depends on players performing individually even if results are poor. Thats why Dennis was worth £20m (think we overpaid actually) from a relegted team.
If MGW scores 15 but we go down we will get our money back. If he only scores 2 we might have the most expensive player in the Championship.
Fact is we have already spent in excess of our PL windfall for 3 years if you combine transfers, wages and agent fees.
Its a statement of intent by the owners but also a heck of a gamble and they dont want it backfiring.

Is Dennis not a perfect example of how easy it would be to sell players next summer if necessary for way above their actual worth?! Scored a few goals, not an amazing player for a poor side, still got 20m!

You're right my point was that I left about half the squad off that team and still put an elite championship team out. You've got assume some of them will carry decent value, enough to cover the losses for at least the first few years along with very generous parachute payments.

We paid 12m for Dennis + add ons. 
If we have a bad season then unlikely add ons will amount to much.

However, value of any player will be influenced by performances this year.

[Reds73]

Give your head a shake about more enjoyable do you think the owners want that ffs

I don't think that no, not sure how that affects how much I enjoy it though?

I think what would be much more enjoyable is we battle and stay up, and grew into a team who can qualify for Europe in next few years.

Something to get your teeth into.

Yo yo would be so boring IMO