Middlesbrough - Nottingham Forest
(26-12-2021, 07:08 PM)Paplane Wrote: A bit of a test for us now over the next week. Udders will be a tough game and Barnsley a must win. 6 points from the 9 and the show's back on the road. 4 points and we've hit a bit of a road block. And less I guess our annual winter slump has arrived.

We need to at least hold our position in the top 8.

Regroup.  

However, the lack of fullbacks will dog any attempt to do so.

I can see us picking up a couple of draws.  That would be 2 out of 9.

I hope the group can dig deep and get a couple of wins.  Easier said than done when your fullbacks have gone missing.  Every position has to be accounted for in this league.  The days of getting by with 3-4 good players are long over.

SA.
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(26-12-2021, 07:44 PM)ozzyten10 Wrote: We got what we deserved today - as cooper honestly conceded. We have some winnable games coming up - I just think it is a positive that I’m our poorest performance under cooper we still had chances to draw or even win.

I guess you've got a point there.

SA.
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(26-12-2021, 09:54 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote:
(26-12-2021, 07:25 PM)ozzyten10 Wrote: Wilder is very canny as well and why he was my first choice - important to see however what Dane has said - we went for cooper with a 3 window strategy - we are ahead of schedule. For the first time it showed today. For all Middlesbroughs possession it could still be argued we could and perhaps should have stolen a point from our chances - silva and inch away from a very good goal - a penalty on Johnson and zinks massive miss… also their keeper lucky with a clearance that hit his own player.
Cooper very honest in his assessment but I now feel for carvalho - players need to take their chance when it comes- comment.

Fair comment.  Wilder was my 1st choice.  It's ironic that Forest went for Cooper because Forest weren't a 'ready' squad to begin with.  So it was appropriate that we went for Cooper.  I also think Cooper may be clever enough for the Premier if he gets the right backing.

We've had to make do with 'alt' choices in the Summer for many positions and had to deal with a vast outflux of players.  Wilder, by comparison, probably walked into a far more battle ready squad in Boro'.  They've been play offs for two season or there about under Warnock?  I can see Wilder's Boro' closing in on that 2nd auto spot.

Forest normally take their chances.  Had they done so...

Today?  They didn't.  We had enough chances to trump Boro's possession.

As for Car'.  If he can't do it in a Cooper Forest side he's finished at Forest.

SA.

Fully agree with this statement
"It's Tricky to rock a rhyme, to rock a rhyme that's right on time, it's Trickay, It's Tricky, Tricky, Tricky Tricky" - Run DMC
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Got back had my dinner and watched 2nd half again, so here goes

Positives
-This was not a performance likely to repeated often under SC-especially 1st half.
- Spence available again now.
- It could have been over by half time.
- Silva! His 1st touch was superb throughout. Wheres he been?
- Tin hat time: Carvs did nothing for 10 minutes then showed some real quality play. Having seen 2nd half twice  I'm amazed at some of the comments. We were giving the ball away for fun in 1st half before he came on.
- Samba played well.
- It stopped raining on way back to car.
- The police actually arrested,/ejected the d1ckhead from Boro who climbed onto the segregation cover and was trying to goad Forest fans.
- We don't have to live in Middlesborough.

Negatives
- 1st half: Mistakes all over the place couldn't pass wind  no pressure on the ball, poor positionally AND we gift wrap them a goal.
- 300 mile round trip for f all.
- Missed chance by Zinc cost us a smash and grab.
- Way too sloppy in possession.

Apart from the long trip not too downcast. 16 games ago I would have called you mental if you'd said we would only lose 2 of next 16 so with 2 very winnable home games to come, I'm not going to go off on one. Just one of those days.
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(26-12-2021, 11:30 PM)zicorice Wrote: Got back had my dinner and watched 2nd half again, so here goes

Positives
-This was not a performance likely to repeated often under SC-especially 1st half.  (I think they'd a had a talking too for that.  It was poor.  But I thought Forest were doing ok before the OG.  After that, they seemed to lose their composure.)
- Spence available again now.  (Thank the football gods.)
- It could have been over by half time.  (IF Yates doesn't OG.  I don't think Boro would have had those 'tails up' frenzy of chances.  The OG put the 'plan' and Forest on the back foot.)
- Silva! His 1st touch was superb throughout. Wheres he been?  (Well, we'll see if there's more to come from him...IF he'd scored...  Maybe he'll be used whilst Mighten is injured?)
- Tin hat time: Carvs did nothing for 10 minutes then showed some real quality play. Having seen 2nd half twice  I'm amazed at some of the comments. We were giving the ball away for fun in 1st half before he came on.  (I think over the two games he's 'shown' under Cooper, I'm not getting the we paid £13 million for a player who can impose himself on a game.  Assists?  Goals?  A few nice touches.  Not quite enough for me.  He's running out of chances.)
- Samba played well.  (Fair play to him.  He was angry and passionate and gave the defence a rollicking?)
- It stopped raining on way back to car.
- The police actually arrested,/ejected the d1ckhead from Boro who climbed onto the segregation cover and was trying to goad Forest fans.
- We don't have to live in Middlesborough.

Negatives
- 1st half: Mistakes all over the place couldn't pass wind  no pressure on the ball, poor positionally AND we gift wrap them a goal.
- 300 mile round trip for f all.
- Missed chance by Zinc cost us a smash and grab.  (He has to bury that?)
- Way too sloppy in possession.  (If the midfield cannot hold onto the ball and impose itself, you don't win football games.  We picked the wrong time to be sloppy in possession vs a Wilder Boro' side that had dispatched Bournemouth.  We got hustled.  And without Fullbacks or Colback in CM we seemed...'lost.'  Lightweight.)

Apart from the long trip not too downcast. 16 games ago I would have called you mental if you'd said we would only lose 2 of next 16 so with 2 very winnable home games to come, I'm not going to go off on one. Just one of those days.

:cool:

SA.
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Dont get the Carv hate of some people. They just apply the price tag and moan............and ignore anything he does. just because of his price tag they expect "Pele" all the time............rather than just forget the price tag and treat him as a squad member. Need to grow up some people.

Concentrate on the player now......he did show some good touches and was an improvement on Zincs.......who for his goals is good, but really is an annoying player who gives away the ball far too often and gives away fouls far too often - you can see why he is no playing in the PL.

Silva for me offered more "all round" than the odd Mighten flash in the pan..........if Silva can keep this performance level up it will actually be better for us to have Silva instead of Mighten in the months ahead.

Dont like Colback at Left Back - we lose all attacking threat down the left side...........as much as everyone hates Bong - at least if he plays we do have some left sided threat which then stops their right back marauding forward.

Anyway, overall a god awful performance - and Yates will have learnt now to never pass the ball back to the keeper blind........utter stupidity and he knew it as well. Look before you kick the ball in that situation and if no time hit it wide..........
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No overreaction and on to the next one, yesterday was not our day, in the main part we were outplayed but if we had taken a glorious chance to make it 1-1 then it would of been a different game, we were well on top at the point, so as bad as we were first half we stayed in the game. 

The second was a sucker punch. 

We miss our wing backs and the quality they bring. Spence will be back Thursday and we go again on another run.
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Massive chance yesterday missed by Zinc at 1-0.

Massive chance missed by Grabban against Fulham at 1-0.

Fine lines.

We dust ourselves down and go again. Two winnable home games in the next 7 days. Six points will put us right in amongst them.
Panic on the streets of Croydon, Derby, Sheffield, Leicestershire.
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(26-12-2021, 06:51 PM)Username Wrote:
(26-12-2021, 06:00 PM)Paplane Wrote: Be interested in hearing what Cooper has to say. I think he left the subs too late and brought the wrong ones on.

I suspect if Back wasnt the youngster he is he'd have been dragged off at half time.

All round a bad day in the office for everyone.

We desperaly need Lowe back and a replacement for Spence. If both of those positions aren't filled early in January then its curtains for our play off hopes. We do not need to leave it until January 31st.

Interesting with Carvalho and Silva both in the fold that Jenkinson wasn’t at least on the bench given how inexperienced Back still is.

Jenkinson was not named in our 25 man squad was he?
Panic on the streets of Croydon, Derby, Sheffield, Leicestershire.
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(27-12-2021, 12:17 PM)Sniffer Dog Wrote:
(26-12-2021, 06:51 PM)Username Wrote:
(26-12-2021, 06:00 PM)Paplane Wrote: Be interested in hearing what Cooper has to say. I think he left the subs too late and brought the wrong ones on.

I suspect if Back wasnt the youngster he is he'd have been dragged off at half time.

All round a bad day in the office for everyone.

We desperaly need Lowe back and a replacement for Spence. If both of those positions aren't filled early in January then its curtains for our play off hopes. We do not need to leave it until January 31st.

Interesting with Carvalho and Silva both in the fold that Jenkinson wasn’t at least on the bench given how inexperienced Back still is.

Jenkinson was not named in our 25 man squad was he?

I guess you stick a fork in his potato and say he's done.  Did he upset someone or has he smashed his glass ankle?

We have a LB and RB (two if you count Drager) on good money and they're not really playing.  We've got to get beyond doing this as we move through January and beyond.  We have 3 fullbacks on the books and they're doing nothing for us.

Instead we have a dis-jointed side going up against a Boro side that always seems to have two squads or succession planning in place.

SA.
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(27-12-2021, 12:14 PM)Sniffer Dog Wrote: Massive chance yesterday missed by Zinc at 1-0.

Massive chance missed by Grabban against Fulham at 1-0.

Fine lines.

We dust ourselves down and go again. Two winnable home games in the next 7 days. Six points will put us right in amongst them.

True.  And.  True.

This is a division of fine lines.  And Forest without the fullbacks and their pivotal CM'er (Colback) looked 'gift wrapped' for Wilder yesterday.

I guess I have to be pragmatic and say we've led a charmed life with some of the comebacks on our recent run.  And yesterday, our luck ran out with rookies drafted in and our best CM out of position.  Wilder knew this and high pressed the crepe out of Forest.

Still think Boro' got lucky though.  We had enough chances to draw or win the game.  We even gifted them a head start.  We were even on top 2nd half as Boro' seemed shaky before Forest got done with another sucker punch.  

I thought Boro' were 'so so' before that.

SA.
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(27-12-2021, 03:02 AM)JWJW Wrote: Dont get the Carv hate of some people.  They just apply the price tag and moan............and ignore anything he does.  just because of his price tag they expect "Pele" all the time............rather than just forget the price tag and treat him as a squad member.  Need to grow up some people.

Concentrate on the player now......he did show some good touches and was an improvement on Zincs.......who for his goals is good, but really is an annoying player who gives away the ball far too often and gives away fouls far too often - you can see why he is no playing in the PL.

Silva for me offered more "all round" than the odd Mighten flash in the pan..........if Silva can keep this performance level up it will actually be better for us to have Silva instead of Mighten in the months ahead.

Dont like Colback at Left Back - we lose all attacking threat down the left side...........as much as everyone hates Bong - at least if he plays we do have some left sided threat which then stops their right back marauding forward.

Anyway, overall a god awful performance - and Yates will have learnt now to never pass the ball back to the keeper blind........utter stupidity and he knew it as well.  Look before you kick the ball in that situation and if no time hit it wide..........

Car's 'hate?'  Apathy more like.  And bitterly disappointing........................................considering his.......................godly price tag.  Easy to ignore him when he does nothing in goals or assists.  He wasn't even up to the 'Car' standard that toasted Boro' under 'Car Hater' (allegedly...) MoN.  An utter light weight who needs a very narrow set of team parameters for his game to work.  Struggles with tracking back, tackles.  Not his job?  What about imposing his 'talent?'  £13 million wonder goal?  Or supplying the perfect pass, surely he can do that to help our striker's score?  Ironically.  That £13 million would go someway to supply Forest with a permanent set of fullbacks, LB, RB that Forest need to get Cooper's preferred formation going, another goal scoring winger, a CM who can impose himself on the game, a powerful striker.  5 players who would give Forest so much more than Car's herculean price tag didn't, doesn't, won't.  An ill-advised buy from people who should have known better (...but turned out they didn't know the Championship that well at all.)

The only person who needs to grow up?  Car'.  He's lost.  A lightweight who should never have been brought into the Forest squad than anything more than what Forest paid for Maji.  A far more wiry player who showed way more for Forest.  He hasn't got the fortitude in mind or body for this league.  He couldn't even do it on loan.

You make a fair point about Silva.  He's had to wait a while for a go on the wings.  He nearly scored a goal! Ironic considering Mighten is still a developing rookie who blows hot and cold (which young players do, to be fair.). But I suspect Silva is an accounting transfer along with Drager. Perhaps they'll be used as paper weights to get Forest some players who can contribute going forwards.

You don't like Colback at LB?  You're telling me.  Had Hughton done that, he'd have been taken down off the cross and nailed back up, re-crucified.  Forest look a mere shadow without Colback in CM.  About as imposing as yesterday's tea leaves for a nice strong brew.

Bong.  When you're best CM is ahead of you in your 'strongest' position...

Awful?  Yes.  And Forest still had 2-3 chances to bury Boro' after we gifted them a goal head start.  Yates may well have looked to the sky.  30 lashes, Yates.  'I must never pass it back to the keeper without looking.  I must not pass it back to the keeper even when I'm looking. etc.  Etc.'  Write it down 100 times, Master Yates.  Not his finest honour.  And I'm a Yates fan.  He's lucky Brian Clough wasn't his manager for that one.  He would have been spit roast.

Just looked at Forest's 'highlights.' They didn't even include Zinc Man's miss. Jeeze. Colback done twice easily at LB/LWB. Wrong position for him. Yates and Garner in CM? Not enough experience for me. Samba passed it out to Yates who was already being closed down. Yates could have passed it out wide. Forest seemed asleep on the ball. I did spy 'a' run with Car' driving forward with the ball at his feet.

"Imo that should be it for Carvahlo. Didn't seem to offer anything, carded straight away and not to be seen tracking back. Seemed so disinterested. All these mangers and loan teams can't be wrong. Maybe he did seem a 13M player before coming to us, but new league/country/team dynamic it was a costly gamble. Lessons learnt I hope." said one YouTuber on NFFC YouTube.

The 2nd goal. Colback well beaten. What were Forest's central defenders doing? Boro' had two players unmarked in the box.

A positive. Cooper did try to make attacking subs to change the game.

*Ranting and raving over.  *finds the stop button on SA's turkey carving knife.

SA.
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