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(26-04-2021, 05:10 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote: (26-04-2021, 03:05 PM)PsychoStanleyStone Wrote: a big chunk of this discussion is about whether CH has got the best out of a squad he inherited, personally, i don't think he has, we got some terrific offensive players but the lack of goals and chances proves the point, CH never gambles or changes things drastically, he's more about not losing than going all out for the win, i can't see him succeeding, he's had an above average squad and above average depth of squad but well below average goals and points
he's peaked and well past his prime and no innovation, no risk, lack of belief, we've had far too long of this, the arguments for sticking with CH all point to the fact we should of stuck with O'Neill and Keane, they had more about them, more of everything to do with old school stuff and past performance
we will end up with the irony that we stick with Hughton for the same sort of reasons people wanted O'Neill and Keane out but the latter would of brought success but this club has bottled it for a bottler
Hughton, a bottler? In an alternate, warped universe? But not this reality. Hughton's Forest compete for every ball.
Don't you mean Sabri? Sabri's players? Or the club for not firing Sabri sooner?
Let me see. Did Hughton's Forest bottle it spectacularly against Stoke? Nope. Did Hughton's side draw with Stoke? Yes. And should have beaten them but for a soft goal from the area of our defensive LB.
Did Hughton's Forest get old manned vs Cardiff? Nope. They resolutely stood up to them to beat the play off hopefuls 1-0.
How about Millwall then. Perenial 'shock troops' of the Championship. Nope. Bent them over for a win.
Ok. Well. What about Birmingham? The latest manager forged in muck and nettles. Nope. Forest keep going and get a well earned point in the end.
You don't gamble with a compromised squad. You secure safety 1st. And in some other dreamland, I suppose Norwich's Farker led us to top 6 promotion in his 1st season in charge with no pre-season or squad of his own design. It's nice pipe dream. Until you wake up.
What about ex Forest managers. Aitor? Sacked from Birmingham. What about Warburton. Hughton's 'safe' football pOWNed them with some great interplay and great goals.
Yes. Some people are getting ready (sorry, 'some fans') with ropes to Lynch Hughton for Sabri's squad and pre-season.
The players are crap. But we're expecting?
Our player of the half season is Joe Worrall. Does that tell us anything? And he wasn't available until quite a while into the season.
SA.
You have certainly got a bee in your bonnet about Ribero. I have just watched their goal again and whilst Ribs does make the challenge to try to prevent their scorer, he doesnt do a lot wrong. The fault lies with a) Garner who was sloppy in possession in the Stoke half and b) McKenna who stopped tracking their striker once he was inside the penalty area.
Also, as regards the 'half season'? What are you on about here? They have currently played 44 matches in a shorter space of time. The affects on the mind and body will be that it would seem like a longer season, not a shorter one as there is less, if any, time to recover between matches.
"It's Tricky to rock a rhyme, to rock a rhyme that's right on time, it's Trickay, It's Tricky, Tricky, Tricky Tricky" - Run DMC
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(26-04-2021, 04:51 PM)optimistic_red Wrote: Only 1 person gets to choose the manager. It costs millions of pounds to own a club and be in that position.
Managers are also people, you can't just get the one you think is best.
Is it a modern day thing that fans (of all clubs) are on the managers back immediately? Or is it a reaction to the fact that most clubs give managers less time.
June 2011 Steve McClaren replaced Billy Davies. Hughton is the 19th different manager (inc a few caretakers). IMO most were sacked too early.
Some of our football hasn't been pretty, and we'd all pick different teams or make different subs. I'm happy to support Hughton and the club until we get the success we all crave.
Amen.
Some rational and common sense comment.
SA.
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(26-04-2021, 05:20 PM)Tricky Wrote: (26-04-2021, 05:10 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote: (26-04-2021, 03:05 PM)PsychoStanleyStone Wrote: a big chunk of this discussion is about whether CH has got the best out of a squad he inherited, personally, i don't think he has, we got some terrific offensive players but the lack of goals and chances proves the point, CH never gambles or changes things drastically, he's more about not losing than going all out for the win, i can't see him succeeding, he's had an above average squad and above average depth of squad but well below average goals and points
he's peaked and well past his prime and no innovation, no risk, lack of belief, we've had far too long of this, the arguments for sticking with CH all point to the fact we should of stuck with O'Neill and Keane, they had more about them, more of everything to do with old school stuff and past performance
we will end up with the irony that we stick with Hughton for the same sort of reasons people wanted O'Neill and Keane out but the latter would of brought success but this club has bottled it for a bottler
Hughton, a bottler? In an alternate, warped universe? But not this reality. Hughton's Forest compete for every ball.
Don't you mean Sabri? Sabri's players? Or the club for not firing Sabri sooner?
Let me see. Did Hughton's Forest bottle it spectacularly against Stoke? Nope. Did Hughton's side draw with Stoke? Yes. And should have beaten them but for a soft goal from the area of our defensive LB.
Did Hughton's Forest get old manned vs Cardiff? Nope. They resolutely stood up to them to beat the play off hopefuls 1-0.
How about Millwall then. Perenial 'shock troops' of the Championship. Nope. Bent them over for a win.
Ok. Well. What about Birmingham? The latest manager forged in muck and nettles. Nope. Forest keep going and get a well earned point in the end.
You don't gamble with a compromised squad. You secure safety 1st. And in some other dreamland, I suppose Norwich's Farker led us to top 6 promotion in his 1st season in charge with no pre-season or squad of his own design. It's nice pipe dream. Until you wake up.
What about ex Forest managers. Aitor? Sacked from Birmingham. What about Warburton. Hughton's 'safe' football pOWNed them with some great interplay and great goals.
Yes. Some people are getting ready (sorry, 'some fans') with ropes to Lynch Hughton for Sabri's squad and pre-season.
The players are crap. But we're expecting?
Our player of the half season is Joe Worrall. Does that tell us anything? And he wasn't available until quite a while into the season.
SA.
You have certainly got a bee in your bonnet about Ribero. I have just watched their goal again and whilst Ribs does make the challenge to try to prevent their scorer, he doesnt do a lot wrong. The fault lies with a) Garner who was sloppy in possession in the Stoke half and b) McKenna who stopped tracking their striker once he was inside the penalty area.
Also, as regards the 'half season'? What are you on about here? They have currently played 44 matches in a shorter space of time. The affects on the mind and body will be that it would seem like a longer season, not a shorter one as there is less, if any, time to recover between matches.
Rib' hasn't been robust enough for the LB task. Hughton's rotation at LB speaks for itself. Rib' got fizzed by with the 1st attack of the game. And when it came to 'do his job'? Fumble. Not for the 1st time this season. I'll be amazed if he's back in the Summer. Doubt it. He isn't the only soft fullback, though. Our RB seemed to be out of position. So Worrall and to cover and got beaten by the cross.
Garner was sloppy in possession higher up the pitch. You're on point there.
Worrall has played 44 matches? He has? :O
You're right about the compressed schedule. Muscle fatigue injuries seem 'up.' Not surprising. The schedule hasn't gone anyone any favours.
SA.
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He’s doing a good job. He’s installed a firm foundation to build on for next season, and I’m looking forward to it.
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(26-04-2021, 05:04 PM)PsychoStanleyStone Wrote: (26-04-2021, 03:18 PM)Sniffer Dog Wrote: How the hell is Hughton a bottler?
His record speaks for itself. You don't have to like him I get that but lets not be daft.
he'll dig in for a draw but how often has he gone for the win? he doesn't seem to play to win, he sets up not to concede, this is generalising the stats which are appalling if you want to use them to prove that CH is an offensive, cavalier, victory or die type manager, all they prove is he is a bottler or furnish a very strong case, the owner bottled it by not backing O'Neill and Keane when the dressing room needed sorting out and a few passions stirred up and a few dents into 1 or 2's pride, that is what a pre season used to be about, now there is nothing except statistics and what do they prove? he failed to get a tune out of a set of decent players ... because he bottled it every game virtually, it's like he wasn't under pressure or anything to prove, his legacy of 'success' actually justifies to him just doing enough
You don't get promotions on your CV like Hughton has if you don't win Football matches.
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The last thing we need is a “ offensive, cavalier, victory or die type manager”. This is the Championship, not a kick about on the local park.
Unless you have money to burn and can afford an expensive team most matches are tight and often won by whoever scores the first goal. Being able to defend is the single most important thing a manager can bring to a Championship team, because without that your club is going nowhere.
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Team for next year not as bad as we think
Samba
? Worral McKenna ?
Yates colback/Cafu
Lolley Brennan mighten
Grabban
Come on you mighty Reds
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(27-04-2021, 10:20 AM)tugger2018 Wrote: Team for next year not as bad as we think
Samba
? Worral McKenna ?
Yates colback/Cafu
Lolley Brennan mighten
Grabban
Team this year not as bad as some think
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(27-04-2021, 10:20 AM)tugger2018 Wrote: Team for next year not as bad as we think
Samba
? Worral McKenna ?
Yates colback/Cafu
Lolley Brennan mighten
Grabban
No Ameobi ?
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(27-04-2021, 11:37 AM)stirred Wrote: (27-04-2021, 10:20 AM)tugger2018 Wrote: Team for next year not as bad as we think
Samba
? Worral McKenna ?
Yates colback/Cafu
Lolley Brennan mighten
Grabban
Team this year not as bad as some think
Yeah we were robbed of a playoff place, really shouldn't have listened to all those times CH and Sabri told them to play badly
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(27-04-2021, 12:17 PM)wassy04 Wrote: (27-04-2021, 11:37 AM)stirred Wrote: (27-04-2021, 10:20 AM)tugger2018 Wrote: Team for next year not as bad as we think
Samba
? Worral McKenna ?
Yates colback/Cafu
Lolley Brennan mighten
Grabban
Team this year not as bad as some think
Yeah we were robbed of a playoff place, really shouldn't have listened to all those times CH and Sabri told them to play badly
My comment seems perfectly reasonable, basically agreeing on optimism for next year with a cheekiness as I think we’ve underperformed this year and the squad is better than many think.
You can disagree, but what is your response about? It’s the same again - distorting and exaggerating what I’ve said to try to discredit it.
It’s ok to have a different opinion!
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27-04-2021, 02:25 PM
(This post was last modified: 27-04-2021, 02:27 PM by wassy04.)
(27-04-2021, 01:42 PM)stirred Wrote: (27-04-2021, 12:17 PM)wassy04 Wrote: (27-04-2021, 11:37 AM)stirred Wrote: (27-04-2021, 10:20 AM)tugger2018 Wrote: Team for next year not as bad as we think
Samba
? Worral McKenna ?
Yates colback/Cafu
Lolley Brennan mighten
Grabban
Team this year not as bad as some think
Yeah we were robbed of a playoff place, really shouldn't have listened to all those times CH and Sabri told them to play badly
My comment seems perfectly reasonable, basically agreeing on optimism for next year with a cheekiness as I think we’ve underperformed this year and the squad is better than many think.
You can disagree, but what is your response about? It’s the same again - distorting and exaggerating what I’ve said to try to discredit it.
It’s ok to have a different opinion!
I felt your comment was a sly dig at the manager (of which I remembered you as being overly and unnecessarily critical) Apologies if I am confusing you with other posters, it's hard to keep track of the manager out brigade, that come out after every loss.
It is ok to have a different opinion I agree, it's also ok to criticise said opinion if it feels like it is having a negative effect, which I think the constant pointless calls for the manager to be sacked have.
I actually think it has been forgotten that we had quite an unlucky run of games which we somehow didn't win, whereas it was pretty much the opposite last year
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