Vote Of Confidence

[wassy04]

Something else we shouldn't underestimate is the psychological state of the players and management who were still at the club when this season started following on from what happened at the end of last season. The player's were absolutely psychologically ruined.
I dare say that if Sabri had stayed we would have been relegated although we will never know that for sure.

I think some are underestimating just what a very tough job Hughton had on his hands at the time when he first arrived. In the circumstances I think he's done a pretty good job to be fair to him.

So, bar 4 games he had a whole season to get players motivated, and now they lacking anything but motivation, plus 15 player who never had the issue of what happened last season.

I dare sat, if we recruited a different manager to CH, we may have been fighting for top 6 rather than in a relegation battle.

Every manager in the league has a tough job, and unfortunately the same folk who recruited him, have been responsible for a bringing in S**t load of crap players. Sabri managed to get a tune out of them (pre lockdown) last season, CH hasnt really.

For a team like we have, we shouldnt have been anywhere near the bottom, and CH hasnt done much to improve things and his football is dire (something this detractor warned you about when he was appointed)

You've made two opposing arguments here. So we bought a "shit load of crap players". ie we must not have a good team.

Or "we shouldn't have been anywhere near the bottom" which implies we must have a half decent team.

So I'm guessing you think Cash and Watson weren't important? Or that we didn't need Grabban and Worrall for the first half of the year? Or Lolley for most of it?

[wassy04]

Voted for give him the season, stability is No.1 priority. Having said that my 2nd choice would be sack him now as being preferable to another mid season change and the inevitable write off that comes with that.

Think you might be over estimating our importance if you think EM is looking at this poll though!

I doubt that he will be looking at this poll, and if he did I doubt he would be swayed by it one way or the other.

One thing which will sway his mind is the fact that he is four seasons into his ownership and so far it has cost him 184m.

He now has a manager with a record of success in this division; he needs to stick with him.

If not for the good of the Club then it is certainly for the good of his wealth.

I disagree with this attitude, why are you and others trying to abdicate responsibility. Just because EM makes the decisions doesn't mean he is swayed by fan opinion. I'm sick of fans hiding behind EM's record of sacking managers as an excuse to not back managers. (I can clearly see you are backing him here btw, that's not the point I'm making) The point is that by saying that you give others who want rid an excuse to be negative.

There is no responsibility to abdicate.

I have not come close to either hiring or firing one of our former managers; having an opinion is not the same as having responsibility.

I am firmly in the keep Hughton camp; he has done a good job so far and I cannot think of anyone more suitable for the job.

And when you look at who his detractors are, that kind of confirms things for me.

Well, one of those detractors, said we wouldnt get top 6 last season - proved right. Said when appointed CH, we would be in a relegation battle - proved right. Said the players brought in last summer were dog S**t, and proved right. Said we should have sold Grabban last summer, and think if we had it may have been different season if we had a quality replacement. All CH has done is copy and paste Sabri, and got them defensively (like Sabri did last season). 

His decisions on players are head scratching, he persists in Grabban as captain, yet if we want to be clear why i want a change, then, just look at the stats (dougie Freedman had a better win percentage and a far worser team).

People want him to stay cos he has done it at Newcastle and Brighton. Sometimes its horses for courses, he didnt do it a Norwich. And just cos he got them promoted, what has he done to prove he can do the same for Forest apart from having a promotion on his CV.

Lets look at the past to see if managers who have got promotion could do it for Forest...

Megson, twice promoted to Premier league. Dreadful
Karanka, Premier league promotion  with Boro (has better win percentage)
Billy Davis Premier league promotion with Derby, close with Preston
Cotterill, Promotions with Notts county (to league one) and Bristol City (to CHampionship) and another better win percentage

Warburton, Brentford promotion, and was sacked at forest with a 40% win rate.

IF we wanted old skool, shouldve kept Martin O Neill, who has been far more successful than CH in his career and who in 19 games had a 42.1% win rate (with a crap team) compared to CH tragic  31% win rate 

And lets not forget all the players we have that have Premier league promotions to their name as well, doesnt mean they have been any good for Forest.

Not sure it's overly insightful to say we would be in a relegation battle when we're sat bottom with 0 after four games. Same as suggesting we wouldn't get top 6 when we were overachieving to be in contention but good for you, congratulations on your positivity and excellent support

[Strawberry Avenger]

Something else we shouldn't underestimate is the psychological state of the players and management who were still at the club when this season started following on from what happened at the end of last season. The player's were absolutely psychologically ruined.
I dare say that if Sabri had stayed we would have been relegated although we will never know that for sure.

I think some are underestimating just what a very tough job Hughton had on his hands at the time when he first arrived. In the circumstances I think he's done a pretty good job to be fair to him.

So, bar 4 games he had a whole season to get players motivated, and now they lacking anything but motivation, plus 15 player who never had the issue of what happened last season.

I dare sat, if we recruited a different manager to CH, we may have been fighting for top 6 rather than in a relegation battle.

Every manager in the league has a tough job, and unfortunately the same folk who recruited him, have been responsible for a bringing in S**t load of crap players. Sabri managed to get a tune out of them (pre lockdown) last season, CH hasnt really.

For a team like we have, we shouldnt have been anywhere near the bottom, and CH hasnt done much to improve things and his football is dire (something this detractor warned you about when he was appointed)

You've made two opposing arguments here. So we bought a "S**t load of crap players". ie we must not have a good team.

Or "we shouldn't have been anywhere near the bottom" which implies we must have a half decent team.

So I'm guessing you think Cash and Watson weren't important? Or that we didn't need Grabban and Worrall for the first half of the year? Or Lolley for most of it?

:cool:

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Voted for give him the season, stability is No.1 priority. Having said that my 2nd choice would be sack him now as being preferable to another mid season change and the inevitable write off that comes with that.

Think you might be over estimating our importance if you think EM is looking at this poll though!

I doubt that he will be looking at this poll, and if he did I doubt he would be swayed by it one way or the other.

One thing which will sway his mind is the fact that he is four seasons into his ownership and so far it has cost him 184m.

He now has a manager with a record of success in this division; he needs to stick with him.

If not for the good of the Club then it is certainly for the good of his wealth.

I disagree with this attitude, why are you and others trying to abdicate responsibility. Just because EM makes the decisions doesn't mean he is swayed by fan opinion. I'm sick of fans hiding behind EM's record of sacking managers as an excuse to not back managers. (I can clearly see you are backing him here btw, that's not the point I'm making) The point is that by saying that you give others who want rid an excuse to be negative.

There is no responsibility to abdicate.

I have not come close to either hiring or firing one of our former managers; having an opinion is not the same as having responsibility.

I am firmly in the keep Hughton camp; he has done a good job so far and I cannot think of anyone more suitable for the job.

And when you look at who his detractors are, that kind of confirms things for me.

Well, one of those detractors, said we wouldnt get top 6 last season - proved right. Said when appointed CH, we would be in a relegation battle - proved right. Said the players brought in last summer were dog S**t, and proved right. Said we should have sold Grabban last summer, and think if we had it may have been different season if we had a quality replacement. All CH has done is copy and paste Sabri, and got them defensively (like Sabri did last season). 

His decisions on players are head scratching, he persists in Grabban as captain, yet if we want to be clear why i want a change, then, just look at the stats (dougie Freedman had a better win percentage and a far worser team).

People want him to stay cos he has done it at Newcastle and Brighton. Sometimes its horses for courses, he didnt do it a Norwich. And just cos he got them promoted, what has he done to prove he can do the same for Forest apart from having a promotion on his CV.

Lets look at the past to see if managers who have got promotion could do it for Forest...

Megson, twice promoted to Premier league. Dreadful
Karanka, Premier league promotion  with Boro (has better win percentage)
Billy Davis Premier league promotion with Derby, close with Preston
Cotterill, Promotions with Notts county (to league one) and Bristol City (to CHampionship) and another better win percentage

Warburton, Brentford promotion, and was sacked at forest with a 40% win rate.

IF we wanted old skool, shouldve kept Martin O Neill, who has been far more successful than CH in his career and who in 19 games had a 42.1% win rate (with a crap team) compared to CH tragic  31% win rate 

And lets not forget all the players we have that have Premier league promotions to their name as well, doesnt mean they have been any good for Forest.

I wouldn't have myself down as a detractor.  But following O'Neill's dismissal, I wasn't inspired by the appointment of Sabri.  We're replacing a manager who DOES know the Championship with one that clearly doesn't.  I felt that Forest's fate rested entirely on Sow whose two non injury inclusions in the team got Forest into the top 6 and when without him they fell out again, he helped get them back in the top 6.  When he got injured?  I thought it was over.  When he sat on the pitch, injured and prone that kind of summed up the pretence of last season for me.

Personally.  I'd have kept O'Neill.  O'Neill probably told the hierarchy that he knew what he was doing re: football matters.  Whilst they were still clinging to their continental it worked at Olympiakos model.  Martin's comes from a Clough era and an Irish man that doesn't mince his words.  A pitch the hierarchy sided with the 'hug generation' of players over him.  And he's proven correct.  Despite knowing better, whoever was responsible for the lazy recruitment last Summer have had to go back to ancient provers.  Recruit accordingly.  Martin?  He wouldn't have been bottom of the Championship.  It will be a hollow victory for him to be proven right.  We lost a real chance with him.  But it's history now.  Pity.

Forest have had to go back and appoint another manager who 'knows' the Championship in Hughton after the fantasy of last Summer's recruitment and the continental 'The Coach' model failed to map out in the long slow train wreck of this season.  Sure, Hughton will be quite diplomatic to the egos running Forest.  But when he bombed out Blackett for his miserable performance at left back only for it to be placed by a miserable performance at LB by Riberio.  You can't help but feel that he was making a point.  Or two.

SA.

[Widdow]

Something else we shouldn't underestimate is the psychological state of the players and management who were still at the club when this season started following on from what happened at the end of last season. The player's were absolutely psychologically ruined.
I dare say that if Sabri had stayed we would have been relegated although we will never know that for sure.

I think some are underestimating just what a very tough job Hughton had on his hands at the time when he first arrived. In the circumstances I think he's done a pretty good job to be fair to him.

So, bar 4 games he had a whole season to get players motivated, and now they lacking anything but motivation, plus 15 player who never had the issue of what happened last season.

I dare sat, if we recruited a different manager to CH, we may have been fighting for top 6 rather than in a relegation battle.

Every manager in the league has a tough job, and unfortunately the same folk who recruited him, have been responsible for a bringing in S**t load of crap players. Sabri managed to get a tune out of them (pre lockdown) last season, CH hasnt really.

For a team like we have, we shouldnt have been anywhere near the bottom, and CH hasnt done much to improve things and his football is dire (something this detractor warned you about when he was appointed)

You've made two opposing arguments here. So we bought a "S**t load of crap players". ie we must not have a good team.

Or "we shouldn't have been anywhere near the bottom" which implies we must have a half decent team.

So I'm guessing you think Cash and Watson weren't important? Or that we didn't need Grabban and Worrall for the first half of the year? Or Lolley for most of it?

What I meant was everyone one here thought the players we bought would take us to top six, I didn’t but at same time didn’t think we be in a relegation battle, even with said players out, are you thinking we should have as you certainly wouldn’t have been saying that when Hughton was appointed. Just go back and look at the thread and see who talked it up and said still a chance for play offs. To be fair, only 4 games gone, then plenty of time, but CH didn’t deliver. 

Watson easily replaceable, especially being another year older, we couldn’t reply on him (and how well has he done for charlton?)

As for cash, major loss and so sad how they used the money. 

I am not a Christie knocker though, think he is a decent enough right back, but like to think we could do better next season

[Strawberry Avenger]

Something else we shouldn't underestimate is the psychological state of the players and management who were still at the club when this season started following on from what happened at the end of last season. The player's were absolutely psychologically ruined.
I dare say that if Sabri had stayed we would have been relegated although we will never know that for sure.

I think some are underestimating just what a very tough job Hughton had on his hands at the time when he first arrived. In the circumstances I think he's done a pretty good job to be fair to him.

So, bar 4 games he had a whole season to get players motivated, and now they lacking anything but motivation, plus 15 player who never had the issue of what happened last season.

I dare sat, if we recruited a different manager to CH, we may have been fighting for top 6 rather than in a relegation battle.

Every manager in the league has a tough job, and unfortunately the same folk who recruited him, have been responsible for a bringing in S**t load of crap players. Sabri managed to get a tune out of them (pre lockdown) last season, CH hasnt really.

For a team like we have, we shouldnt have been anywhere near the bottom, and CH hasnt done much to improve things and his football is dire (something this detractor warned you about when he was appointed)

You've made two opposing arguments here. So we bought a "S**t load of crap players". ie we must not have a good team.

Or "we shouldn't have been anywhere near the bottom" which implies we must have a half decent team.

So I'm guessing you think Cash and Watson weren't important? Or that we didn't need Grabban and Worrall for the first half of the year? Or Lolley for most of it?

What I meant was everyone one here thought the players we bought would take us to top six, I didn’t but at same time didn’t think we be in a relegation battle, even with said players out, are you thinking we should have as you certainly wouldn’t have been saying that when Hughton was appointed. Just go back and look at the thread and see who talked it up and said still a chance for play offs. To be fair, only 4 games gone, then plenty of time, but CH didn’t deliver. 

Watson easily replaceable, especially being another year older, we couldn’t reply on him (and how well has he done for charlton?)

As for cash, major loss and so sad how they used the money. 

I am not a Christie knocker though, think he is a decent enough right back, but like to think we could do better next season

If Watson was easily replaceable, then why did it take until January to do so?  (A Hughton pick in Garner.)

Or replace Cash.  We had plenty of money.  (I think we can do better for the money spent.  We'll see what Hughton thinks.).  How did we spend the Cash money?  Did we buy a great striker in the Summer despite our over reliance on Grabban?  We lazily assumed Grabban would get us another 20.  Or that Lolley and Ameobi would continue to be in 'good' form when that form had long since fell off a cliff under Sabri.

It doesn't matter what I or anyone on here thinks about whether Forest would be top 6.  It hasn't happened.  Hughton didn't recruit those players.  It was 'lazy' recruitment.   Two midfielders in Colback and Freeman who hadn't played in over a year and one of those had a hernia problem.We recruited loads of non ball playing CMs.  

Hughton did, at least recruit the ball playing Garner and Krov in January. 

Sabri and Forest were bottom of the table.  You don't make the play offs from that.

As for knocking the fullbacks. They've been cruelly exposed all season long. Again. Recruitment prior to Hughton. That he's coached them to the 6th stingiest defence in the league is a minor miracle.

SA.

[Widdow]

Look, if we do keep CH, then he would have to be given the whole season (make ya bed got a lie in it) and let him bring his own players in during the summer.

We can all agree he is experienced and as I have said he knows the players and club now, and like to think he knows what needs to be done and what players are required, and also like to think he has got the ball rolling on players he has targeted and players he wants out.

Better the devil you know.

He needs a good pre season, after players have a good rest and he can get them to play how he wants them too (are we sure be any different to what we’ve seen this season, well guess we shall see) and if he is backed, gets players he wants, then he shouldn’t get just 4 games, he shouldn’t get 20 games he should get the whole season even if he is in another relegation battle.

I hope he proves me wrong, and be delighted if can get us promoted.

[wassy04]

Look, if we do keep CH, then he would have to be given the whole season (make ya bed got a lie in it) and let him bring his own players in during the summer.

We can all agree he is experienced and as I have said he knows the players and club now, and like to think he knows what needs to be done and what players are required, and also like to think he has got the ball rolling on players he has targeted and players he wants out.

Better the devil you know.

He needs a good pre season, after players have a good rest and he can get them to play how he wants them too (are we sure be any different to what we’ve seen this season, well guess we shall see) and if he is backed, gets players he wants, then he shouldn’t get just 4 games, he shouldn’t get 20 games he should get the whole season even if he is in another relegation battle.

I hope he proves me wrong, and be delighted if can get us promoted.

Sounds like we've convinced you, best change your vote  :D

[Widdow]

Look, if we do keep CH, then he would have to be given the whole season (make ya bed got a lie in it) and let him bring his own players in during the summer.

We can all agree he is experienced and as I have said he knows the players and club now, and like to think he knows what needs to be done and what players are required, and also like to think he has got the ball rolling on players he has targeted and players he wants out.

Better the devil you know.

He needs a good pre season, after players have a good rest and he can get them to play how he wants them too (are we sure be any different to what we’ve seen this season, well guess we shall see) and if he is backed, gets players he wants, then he shouldn’t get just 4 games, he shouldn’t get 20 games he should get the whole season even if he is in another relegation battle.

I hope he proves me wrong, and be delighted if can get us promoted.

Sounds like we've convinced you, best change your vote  :D

Haha would do, but there isnt an "reap what you sow" option - basically IF we keep him he has to stay the whole season even if in a relegation battle :)

[wassy04]

Something else we shouldn't underestimate is the psychological state of the players and management who were still at the club when this season started following on from what happened at the end of last season. The player's were absolutely psychologically ruined.
I dare say that if Sabri had stayed we would have been relegated although we will never know that for sure.

I think some are underestimating just what a very tough job Hughton had on his hands at the time when he first arrived. In the circumstances I think he's done a pretty good job to be fair to him.

So, bar 4 games he had a whole season to get players motivated, and now they lacking anything but motivation, plus 15 player who never had the issue of what happened last season.

I dare sat, if we recruited a different manager to CH, we may have been fighting for top 6 rather than in a relegation battle.

Every manager in the league has a tough job, and unfortunately the same folk who recruited him, have been responsible for a bringing in S**t load of crap players. Sabri managed to get a tune out of them (pre lockdown) last season, CH hasnt really.

For a team like we have, we shouldnt have been anywhere near the bottom, and CH hasnt done much to improve things and his football is dire (something this detractor warned you about when he was appointed)

You've made two opposing arguments here. So we bought a "S**t load of crap players". ie we must not have a good team.

Or "we shouldn't have been anywhere near the bottom" which implies we must have a half decent team.

So I'm guessing you think Cash and Watson weren't important? Or that we didn't need Grabban and Worrall for the first half of the year? Or Lolley for most of it?

What I meant was everyone one here thought the players we bought would take us to top six, I didn’t but at same time didn’t think we be in a relegation battle, even with said players out, are you thinking we should have as you certainly wouldn’t have been saying that when Hughton was appointed. Just go back and look at the thread and see who talked it up and said still a chance for play offs. To be fair, only 4 games gone, then plenty of time, but CH didn’t deliver. 

Watson easily replaceable, especially being another year older, we couldn’t reply on him (and how well has he done for charlton?)

As for cash, major loss and so sad how they used the money. 

I am not a Christie knocker though, think he is a decent enough right back, but like to think we could do better next season

I thought we had a slim chance if he hit the ground running but didn't appreciate/realise the extent to the injuries of Grabban, Lolley, Worrall and Sow (could also add Colback to that too). I've consistently said we were lucky under Sabri, hence why I thought we needed the rebuild we went for (with less CMs) but just a shame a number of those signings did not go well.

How they used the money? What to cover our losses? We didn't really spend much on transfers fees unless I'm mistaken? I understand only McKenna and Soh will have had decent fees attached? McKenna still seems a decent investment to me, hopefully more like that this summer.

The big fails were Arter and Taylor, really left us short in key areas.

[Widdow]

I can clearly see reasons why to keep him, and CH is a nice man, who speaks well (but does have his cliches ) i just feel backing the wrong horse again, just like we did with Sabri last summer.

Come on, 31% win rate - Shocking, especially as no signs of improvement, but see majority still happy with him. End of day (i love my cliches too) doesnt matter what any of us think, especially me, as only one man making decisions, the problem is, bad decisions continue to be made, we shall see if keeping or sacking CH is good or bad.

[Widdow]

Something else we shouldn't underestimate is the psychological state of the players and management who were still at the club when this season started following on from what happened at the end of last season. The player's were absolutely psychologically ruined.
I dare say that if Sabri had stayed we would have been relegated although we will never know that for sure.

I think some are underestimating just what a very tough job Hughton had on his hands at the time when he first arrived. In the circumstances I think he's done a pretty good job to be fair to him.

So, bar 4 games he had a whole season to get players motivated, and now they lacking anything but motivation, plus 15 player who never had the issue of what happened last season.

I dare sat, if we recruited a different manager to CH, we may have been fighting for top 6 rather than in a relegation battle.

Every manager in the league has a tough job, and unfortunately the same folk who recruited him, have been responsible for a bringing in S**t load of crap players. Sabri managed to get a tune out of them (pre lockdown) last season, CH hasnt really.

For a team like we have, we shouldnt have been anywhere near the bottom, and CH hasnt done much to improve things and his football is dire (something this detractor warned you about when he was appointed)

You've made two opposing arguments here. So we bought a "S**t load of crap players". ie we must not have a good team.

Or "we shouldn't have been anywhere near the bottom" which implies we must have a half decent team.

So I'm guessing you think Cash and Watson weren't important? Or that we didn't need Grabban and Worrall for the first half of the year? Or Lolley for most of it?

What I meant was everyone one here thought the players we bought would take us to top six, I didn’t but at same time didn’t think we be in a relegation battle, even with said players out, are you thinking we should have as you certainly wouldn’t have been saying that when Hughton was appointed. Just go back and look at the thread and see who talked it up and said still a chance for play offs. To be fair, only 4 games gone, then plenty of time, but CH didn’t deliver. 

Watson easily replaceable, especially being another year older, we couldn’t reply on him (and how well has he done for charlton?)

As for cash, major loss and so sad how they used the money. 

I am not a Christie knocker though, think he is a decent enough right back, but like to think we could do better next season

I thought we had a slim chance if he hit the ground running but didn't appreciate/realise the extent to the injuries of Grabban, Lolley, Worrall and Sow (could also add Colback to that too). I've consistently said we were lucky under Sabri, hence why I thought we needed the rebuild we went for (with less CMs) but just a shame a number of those signings did not go well.

How they used the money? What to cover our losses? We didn't really spend much on transfers fees unless I'm mistaken? I understand only McKenna and Soh will have had decent fees attached? McKenna still seems a decent investment to me, hopefully more like that this summer.

The big fails were Arter and Taylor, really left us short in key areas.

Some talk Arter (albeit undisclosed) was near £5m deal!