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RE: NFFC Financial Talk - Sausage Roll - 29-06-2023
(29-06-2023, 11:37 AM)Widdow Wrote: FFP is hitting us hard. Through transfer fees and wages we have spent nearly 2 years worth of TV money. Villa and Brentford do want Brennan but are unlikely to pay the asking price but that would help FFP.
Really hard getting rid of players, like Steve Cook when they are on 45k. They would also like to get rid of Shelvy and Wood. Close on to £190k being spent on those 2 wastes of money a week.
In other news, have been told they have sorted a front of shirt sponsor, guessing will be announced soon.
Cheers for the update. Good news that a sponsor has been sorted, let's just hope it's not a betting one.
It makes me laugh on the transfer thread when people just toss names about of players we want to sell and attach assumed fees to them. It just isn't as easy as that. It's like some people assume we can just shove them out the door and bid them farewell.
Shelvey and Wood seemed - on paper - like sensible signings at the time but we'd have been better off not bothering. It's not like either of them contributed massively to keeping us up.
Off topic for financial talk but Widdow, do you know if they've hired a Head Physio now? I don't think it can be overstated how important that is. Injuries as much as anything caused us problems last season and you can argue that we'd have never bought Wood at all if Awoniyi had remained fit.
RE: NFFC Financial Talk - Widdow - 29-06-2023
Don’t know SR, I am guessing not yet. Ross Wilson doing a lot of restructuring behind the scenes of club and academy
RE: NFFC Financial Talk - Salvatore Matrecano - 29-06-2023
(29-06-2023, 12:05 PM)Reds73 Wrote:(29-06-2023, 11:37 AM)Widdow Wrote: FFP is hitting us hard. Through transfer fees and wages we have spent nearly 2 years worth of TV money. Villa and Brentford do want Brennan but are unlikely to pay the asking price but that would help FFP.
Really hard getting rid of players, like Steve Cook when they are on 45k. They would also like to get rid of Shelvy and Wood. Close on to £190k being spent on those 2 wastes of money a week.
In other news, have been told they have sorted a front of shirt sponsor, guessing will be announced soon.
I get we have spent around 190m in transfer fees, and the wage bill is prob around 100m
However the fees are amortised for FFP purposes. The current amortised transfer fees are around 50m per year in the accounts.
Therefore I doubt we will post a loss for last seasons accounts based on income of at least 150m (TV income was 120m).
So yes we have spent a lot but don’t think we are anywhere near close to breaching FFP.
We are allowed to lose 105M over a rolling 3 yr period.
As I say there is no way we made a loss (or a significant loss) last season based on the above.
Depends how deals were structured, how much of fee was front loaded etc. Quite a few players such asWood were short contracts which mercifully means we dont get another Arter situation but it also means the entirety of his £15m plus £5m wages is spent in the coming season.
Not saying we are skint by any means but even fag packet maths shows we cant carry on spending as we have and can’t just go and blow £30m on a centre forward. Think its obvious from the names we are linked with none of them command a big (in premier league terms) fee. Wouldn’t be surprised if Brennan is eventually sold for the overall cause.
We are of course allowed another 2 loans, need to use them wisely, should be able to attract some decent ones now we are a more established side.
RE: NFFC Financial Talk - Sausage Roll - 29-06-2023
Two Premier League loans - we can still loan from abroad like we did with Lodi and Navas on top of that.
RE: NFFC Financial Talk - wassy04 - 29-06-2023
(29-06-2023, 12:28 PM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote:(29-06-2023, 12:05 PM)Reds73 Wrote:(29-06-2023, 11:37 AM)Widdow Wrote: FFP is hitting us hard. Through transfer fees and wages we have spent nearly 2 years worth of TV money. Villa and Brentford do want Brennan but are unlikely to pay the asking price but that would help FFP.
Really hard getting rid of players, like Steve Cook when they are on 45k. They would also like to get rid of Shelvy and Wood. Close on to £190k being spent on those 2 wastes of money a week.
In other news, have been told they have sorted a front of shirt sponsor, guessing will be announced soon.
I get we have spent around 190m in transfer fees, and the wage bill is prob around 100m
However the fees are amortised for FFP purposes. The current amortised transfer fees are around 50m per year in the accounts.
Therefore I doubt we will post a loss for last seasons accounts based on income of at least 150m (TV income was 120m).
So yes we have spent a lot but don’t think we are anywhere near close to breaching FFP.
We are allowed to lose 105M over a rolling 3 yr period.
As I say there is no way we made a loss (or a significant loss) last season based on the above.
Depends how deals were structured, how much of fee was front loaded etc. Quite a few players such asWood were short contracts which mercifully means we dont get another Arter situation but it also means the entirety of his £15m plus £5m wages is spent in the coming season.
Not saying we are skint by any means but even fag packet maths shows we cant carry on spending as we have and can’t just go and blow £30m on a centre forward. Think its obvious from the names we are linked with none of them command a big (in premier league terms) fee. Wouldn’t be surprised if Brennan is eventually sold for the overall cause.
We are of course allowed another 2 loans, need to use them wisely, should be able to attract some decent ones now we are a more established side.
Whisper it really really quietly but if we were to get 50-60m for Brennan it might actually be the right time to sell him. If we're going to continue with our current tactics he doesn't really have a role. If that happens his value is going to decrease and he's not going to get the same stats as this year.
Obviously, if we are going to go back to playing another forward then it doesn't make sense to sell him but right now he's going to be starting on the bench. Unless he was converted to a wingback. The same issue applies to CHO as well and any other wide forward people would like to see us sign.
RE: NFFC Financial Talk - Reds73 - 29-06-2023
(29-06-2023, 12:28 PM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote:(29-06-2023, 12:05 PM)Reds73 Wrote:(29-06-2023, 11:37 AM)Widdow Wrote: FFP is hitting us hard. Through transfer fees and wages we have spent nearly 2 years worth of TV money. Villa and Brentford do want Brennan but are unlikely to pay the asking price but that would help FFP.
Really hard getting rid of players, like Steve Cook when they are on 45k. They would also like to get rid of Shelvy and Wood. Close on to £190k being spent on those 2 wastes of money a week.
In other news, have been told they have sorted a front of shirt sponsor, guessing will be announced soon.
I get we have spent around 190m in transfer fees, and the wage bill is prob around 100m
However the fees are amortised for FFP purposes. The current amortised transfer fees are around 50m per year in the accounts.
Therefore I doubt we will post a loss for last seasons accounts based on income of at least 150m (TV income was 120m).
So yes we have spent a lot but don’t think we are anywhere near close to breaching FFP.
We are allowed to lose 105M over a rolling 3 yr period.
As I say there is no way we made a loss (or a significant loss) last season based on the above.
Depends how deals were structured, how much of fee was front loaded etc. Quite a few players such asWood were short contracts which mercifully means we dont get another Arter situation but it also means the entirety of his £15m plus £5m wages is spent in the coming season.
Not saying we are skint by any means but even fag packet maths shows we cant carry on spending as we have and can’t just go and blow £30m on a centre forward. Think its obvious from the names we are linked with none of them command a big (in premier league terms) fee. Wouldn’t be surprised if Brennan is eventually sold for the overall cause.
We are of course allowed another 2 loans, need to use them wisely, should be able to attract some decent ones now we are a more established side.
It’s irrelevant how fees are loaded from an FFP perspective.
We are talking about the actual accounting of fees under Financial Reporting standard.
Even if Arsenal paid the 100m in 1 instalment for Declan Rice, for an FFP accounting point of view, if he signed a 5yr deal, then 20m is accounted for as a cost for each of the 5 yrs.
So even though we might have spent more than we have generated, from an FFP perspective the amortised transfer fees we spent last summer were circa 50m.
RE: NFFC Financial Talk - Reds73 - 29-06-2023
(29-06-2023, 02:42 PM)wassy04 Wrote:(29-06-2023, 12:28 PM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote:(29-06-2023, 12:05 PM)Reds73 Wrote:(29-06-2023, 11:37 AM)Widdow Wrote: FFP is hitting us hard. Through transfer fees and wages we have spent nearly 2 years worth of TV money. Villa and Brentford do want Brennan but are unlikely to pay the asking price but that would help FFP.
Really hard getting rid of players, like Steve Cook when they are on 45k. They would also like to get rid of Shelvy and Wood. Close on to £190k being spent on those 2 wastes of money a week.
In other news, have been told they have sorted a front of shirt sponsor, guessing will be announced soon.
I get we have spent around 190m in transfer fees, and the wage bill is prob around 100m
However the fees are amortised for FFP purposes. The current amortised transfer fees are around 50m per year in the accounts.
Therefore I doubt we will post a loss for last seasons accounts based on income of at least 150m (TV income was 120m).
So yes we have spent a lot but don’t think we are anywhere near close to breaching FFP.
We are allowed to lose 105M over a rolling 3 yr period.
As I say there is no way we made a loss (or a significant loss) last season based on the above.
Depends how deals were structured, how much of fee was front loaded etc. Quite a few players such asWood were short contracts which mercifully means we dont get another Arter situation but it also means the entirety of his £15m plus £5m wages is spent in the coming season.
Not saying we are skint by any means but even fag packet maths shows we cant carry on spending as we have and can’t just go and blow £30m on a centre forward. Think its obvious from the names we are linked with none of them command a big (in premier league terms) fee. Wouldn’t be surprised if Brennan is eventually sold for the overall cause.
We are of course allowed another 2 loans, need to use them wisely, should be able to attract some decent ones now we are a more established side.
Whisper it really really quietly but if we were to get 50-60m for Brennan it might actually be the right time to sell him. If we're going to continue with our current tactics he doesn't really have a role. If that happens his value is going to decrease and he's not going to get the same stats as this year.
Obviously, if we are going to go back to playing another forward then it doesn't make sense to sell him but right now he's going to be starting on the bench. Unless he was converted to a wingback. The same issue applies to CHO as well and any other wide forward people would like to see us sign.
The big risk we have with Brennan is that it is believed he has a relegation clause for 20m.
That leaves us vulnerable if we were to get relegated.
Reality is we need that removing, which means parity with MGW at around 80k or he won’t sign a new deal.
RE: NFFC Financial Talk - Salvatore Matrecano - 04-07-2023
(29-06-2023, 12:05 PM)Reds73 Wrote:(29-06-2023, 11:37 AM)Widdow Wrote: FFP is hitting us hard. Through transfer fees and wages we have spent nearly 2 years worth of TV money. Villa and Brentford do want Brennan but are unlikely to pay the asking price but that would help FFP.
Really hard getting rid of players, like Steve Cook when they are on 45k. They would also like to get rid of Shelvy and Wood. Close on to £190k being spent on those 2 wastes of money a week.
In other news, have been told they have sorted a front of shirt sponsor, guessing will be announced soon.
I get we have spent around 190m in transfer fees, and the wage bill is prob around 100m
However the fees are amortised for FFP purposes. The current amortised transfer fees are around 50m per year in the accounts.
Therefore I doubt we will post a loss for last seasons accounts based on income of at least 150m (TV income was 120m).
So yes we have spent a lot but don’t think we are anywhere near close to breaching FFP.
We are allowed to lose 105M over a rolling 3 yr period.
As I say there is no way we made a loss (or a significant loss) last season based on the above.
I’m not an expert at this but is the below why we might have a problem?
We lost well over £15m plus Marinakis put in £41m equity in March.
Or have I understood this wrong?
RE: NFFC Financial Talk - Sausage Roll - 04-07-2023
(04-07-2023, 09:10 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote:(29-06-2023, 12:05 PM)Reds73 Wrote:(29-06-2023, 11:37 AM)Widdow Wrote: FFP is hitting us hard. Through transfer fees and wages we have spent nearly 2 years worth of TV money. Villa and Brentford do want Brennan but are unlikely to pay the asking price but that would help FFP.
Really hard getting rid of players, like Steve Cook when they are on 45k. They would also like to get rid of Shelvy and Wood. Close on to £190k being spent on those 2 wastes of money a week.
In other news, have been told they have sorted a front of shirt sponsor, guessing will be announced soon.
I get we have spent around 190m in transfer fees, and the wage bill is prob around 100m
However the fees are amortised for FFP purposes. The current amortised transfer fees are around 50m per year in the accounts.
Therefore I doubt we will post a loss for last seasons accounts based on income of at least 150m (TV income was 120m).
So yes we have spent a lot but don’t think we are anywhere near close to breaching FFP.
We are allowed to lose 105M over a rolling 3 yr period.
As I say there is no way we made a loss (or a significant loss) last season based on the above.
I’m not an expert at this but is the below why we might have a problem?
We lost well over £15m plus Marinakis put in £41m equity in March.
Or have I understood this wrong?
So according to Maguire you can only lose £15m over a three year period? Whoa, that's not very much.
If that's the case and we lost, say, (and this is just for example purposes) £30m last season and EM put £41m in then that would put us at £71m out of our £105m in our first year, leaving only £34m across the other two years. *And* that would be dependent on EM putting more in.
That's how I read it anyway.
RE: NFFC Financial Talk - wassy04 - 04-07-2023
(04-07-2023, 09:21 AM)Sausage Roll Wrote:(04-07-2023, 09:10 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote:(29-06-2023, 12:05 PM)Reds73 Wrote:(29-06-2023, 11:37 AM)Widdow Wrote: FFP is hitting us hard. Through transfer fees and wages we have spent nearly 2 years worth of TV money. Villa and Brentford do want Brennan but are unlikely to pay the asking price but that would help FFP.
Really hard getting rid of players, like Steve Cook when they are on 45k. They would also like to get rid of Shelvy and Wood. Close on to £190k being spent on those 2 wastes of money a week.
In other news, have been told they have sorted a front of shirt sponsor, guessing will be announced soon.
I get we have spent around 190m in transfer fees, and the wage bill is prob around 100m
However the fees are amortised for FFP purposes. The current amortised transfer fees are around 50m per year in the accounts.
Therefore I doubt we will post a loss for last seasons accounts based on income of at least 150m (TV income was 120m).
So yes we have spent a lot but don’t think we are anywhere near close to breaching FFP.
We are allowed to lose 105M over a rolling 3 yr period.
As I say there is no way we made a loss (or a significant loss) last season based on the above.
I’m not an expert at this but is the below why we might have a problem?
We lost well over £15m plus Marinakis put in £41m equity in March.
Or have I understood this wrong?
So according to Maguire you can only lose £15m over a three year period? Whoa, that's not very much.
If that's the case and we lost, say, (and this is just for example purposes) £30m last season and EM put £41m in then that would put us at £71m out of our £105m in our first year, leaving only £34m across the other two years. *And* that would be dependent on EM putting more in.
That's how I read it anyway.
The 15m is club losses, the owner has to fund the rest of it essentially. In Utd's case as the Glazers are not putting money into the club its an issue, it's not for anyone else really as most clubs are owner funded.
We generally lost around 30m a year operating loss in the EFL (not had a prem account yet) This means without sales EM would be liable to put in 30m just to cover ongoing cash flow and expenses on wages etc, which he does and regularly converts any loans to equity anyway.
Basically this aspect of FFP isn't an issue for us.
However 105m is not our target as we have to include two years of EFL FFP parameters so I believe ours is actually more like 60m until those championship years drop off (might be wrong on that). I'd imagine we made an accounting profit last year as our wage bill was still championship level in part and the transfers would all be amortised. The losses from the previous two years will be hurting us more.
EDIT, googled this and I was right, according to Prem handbook, we had to meet 13m for our previous two season in EFL. Given I think we were pretty likely to fail without promotion (or selling Jonno in June last year) I suspect that is hampering us a lot.
RE: NFFC Financial Talk - Salvatore Matrecano - 04-07-2023
Ok thanks for the explanation Wassy that does appear to make sense.
RE: Transfers In/Out Summer 2023 - JollyLolly - 05-07-2023
Surely if we sell off the dead wood and surplus players then we do not have to sell our crown jewels like BJ, are we sailing that close to FFP?