QPR - Nottingham Forest

[Strawberry Avenger]

There were people on this forum wondering why we were perusing multiple CH targets, maybe we got our answer after the first two games.

In short.  Yes.  We have our answer.

SA.

No we don't. Figs and Worrall are more than good enough at the level we are at. They have proved it time and time again.

Add up all the last minute goals.  And the evidence says otherwise.  It's another loss.  

Forest have been after CHs and have been linked with a clutch of them.

I suspect that The Coach knows our CHs are flawed (I think the partnership is) and one of them is going to take the bench.  And if they (one or other) don't what's left of their confidence won't matter.

This isn't the first time Figs has been caught out.

We move on to the next  game.  Cardiff.

Here's hoping our two CHs are 'good enough' to keep a clean sheet.

And that last minute goals become a thing of the past.  A pattern that embedded suggests there is a problem.

SA.

It's a team game. You cannot just pin the blame on the CH's for conceding goals. It doesn't work like that.

We are linked with CH's because Bene and Hef are out of favour and Dawson is approaching 37! We are lacking in numbers.

Mr. Gari' would agree with you.  It is a team game.  And you defend from the front.

But Grabban doesn't.  Forest don't retain possession in midfield.  It's the ghost of Calderwood all over.

And if the middle and front two lines don't do that.  Have the back line got the special something to stop 'last minute' goals.  They often look all at sea for those 'last minute' goals.  Which suggests to me, our 'centre' backs are missing something.

We are linked because our options as exactly as you say.  And if our CHs are making mistakes or prone to lapses of judgement or concentration then who do we bring in to change that?  They seem to lack pace and seem rather static.

I think Big Ben would bring a bit more of physical presence to the back line.  But he's out of favour.  And Dawson too old.  And Hef' probably not good enough.  

The stats still say that Forest concede lots of last minute goals.  Clearly a fault line at the back.  You build from the back and this Summer Forest have brought in defensive signings.  But one is playing LB.  And other incoming CH is yet to be tried. 

Can't score and leaking goals.  Hmm.  To me.  That's not a good sign.

SA.

[Tricky]

In short.  Yes.  We have our answer.

SA.

No we don't. Figs and Worrall are more than good enough at the level we are at. They have proved it time and time again.

Add up all the last minute goals.  And the evidence says otherwise.  It's another loss.  

Forest have been after CHs and have been linked with a clutch of them.

I suspect that The Coach knows our CHs are flawed (I think the partnership is) and one of them is going to take the bench.  And if they (one or other) don't what's left of their confidence won't matter.

This isn't the first time Figs has been caught out.

We move on to the next  game.  Cardiff.

Here's hoping our two CHs are 'good enough' to keep a clean sheet.

And that last minute goals become a thing of the past.  A pattern that embedded suggests there is a problem.

SA.

It's a team game. You cannot just pin the blame on the CH's for conceding goals. It doesn't work like that.

We are linked with CH's because Bene and Hef are out of favour and Dawson is approaching 37! We are lacking in numbers.

Mr. Gari' would agree with you.  It is a team game.  And you defend from the front.

But Grabban doesn't.  Forest don't retain possession in midfield.  It's the ghost of Calderwood all over.

And if the middle and front two lines don't do that.  Have the back line got the special something to stop 'last minute' goals.  They often look all at sea for those 'last minute' goals.  Which suggests to me, our 'centre' backs are missing something.

We are linked because our options as exactly as you say.  And if our CHs are making mistakes or prone to lapses of judgement or concentration then who do we bring in to change that?  They seem to lack pace and seem rather static.

I think Big Ben would bring a bit more of physical presence to the back line.  But he's out of favour.  And Dawson too old.  And Hef' probably not good enough.  

The stats still say that Forest concede lots of last minute goals.  Clearly a fault line at the back.  You build from the back and this Summer Forest have brought in defensive signings.  But one is playing LB.  And other incoming CH is yet to be tried. 

Can't score and leaking goals.  Hmm.  To me.  That's not a good sign.

SA.

I think you are overlooking an equation in your summary SA. Why are the CH's prone to lapses of judgement or concentration, especially towards the end of the game? Its because the strikers aren't coming back to support the midfield and the midfield are failing to protect the back line. They are not getting into positions where the defence can play the ball forward. Meaning our defence come under a lot of pressure forced upon them by the forward and midfield positions not doing their jobs fully.

A striker can make 10 mistakes a game and apart from not putting the ball in the oppositions goal isn't a major disaster. A midfielder can make 10 mistakes per game ( see also poor wayward passing, failing to track back, poor marking, ball watching etc) and it isn't a major disaster. But if any of the back line (including the goal keeper) make just 1 mistake in a match, it could be disastrous (see Figuredo). 

They are static because the opposition are quick to close them down because they know the CH's will not get the support and movement from their midfield, which means the long diagonal punt forwards as a release on the pressure they are under. The problem there though is most of the time, it comes straight back at them, putting them under even more pressure because the midfield are still in the opposition half chasing after a long punt forwards.

Nobody can maintain 100% concentration for 90+ minutes without some switch off.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Not overlooking it. The defence has been beaten with scruffy goals and a simple mistake over the last two games and looked at sea for QPR's 2nd.

Everybody knows teams build from the back and defend from the front. Perhaps the 1st thing on Forest's shopping list should have been an experienced CH. (Guess Blackett is going to be used at LB?)

Figs has a mistake in him. And Worrall can 'drift.' (His track record at Rangers shows that.). They've both got mistakes in them.

And I think that's where Forest need a quality, commanding older (but not ancient) head alongside them.

That leaves Worrall to go back to his native position with Figs and the new incumbent to compete for that spot.

And yes. There is a price for playing '20' goals Grabban. Is he the kind of striker that defends from the front?

100% concentration for 90 minutes. But Forest's switch off is usually in the 'last minute.' Suggests the Coach can't coach it out of them or the footballer's at the back can't do what needs to be done.

Warburton's QPR managed to keep a clean sheet. As did Aitor's Birmingham?

We can't overlook the lack of creativity in CM or on the wing.

They are contributing factors. A monster CH, a ball playing CM and a quality providing winger have been elusive despite 7 signings (quite necessary as they were...to bring the squad depth unto the required quality.)

We seem to be short of talismanic players in the positions I mentioned.

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

A raw RB may have been a contributing factor. (Who is seemingly ahead of two other more seasoned RBs...)

Rib' is left parked at home. (One of the stand outs from last season.)

Why not have Rib at LB, Blackett at left CH, Worrall in his natural position and the Jenkin's or Dar' at RB?

And give Figs a breather on the bench.

SA.

[ozzyten10]

QPR constantly attacked our right side and eventually it crumbled.
Jenkinson should have played in this one.

[GaribaldiRED]

QPR constantly attacked our right side and eventually it crumbled.
Jenkinson should have played in this one.

You are right Ozzy. A lot was happening on that side both from QPR as well as Forest. Not sure what you mean by "it crumbled". I thought Gabriel did okay in his league debut.

[Sabricadabra]

QPR overloaded with two down our right side. Obviously a plan to target the young lad.

[wassy04]

My impression is that we have quite a few people who have made up their minds on the manager, playing style and certain individual players a long time ago and keep on hammering the same message over and over again at every possible opportunity. Facts aren't that important it's more about feelings. Naturally the negative messages peak after a bad result as there seems to be a clear expectation that the team should hit the ground running after the shortened preseason. There can be no room for onboarding new players and coaching staff, building up fitness and sharpness, formation drills etc. etc.

A missed pass is unforgivable and immediate actions should be taken to replace that player. And let's blame the player himself for not being the "total football" box to box midfielder that we obviously need. Crucify him on social media as he deserves it for not being what we need. Same with the CHs. Carvs is the messiah but the manager doesn't get it. The manager needs to go, he's on borrowed time and should have been sacked a long time ago. 7th place is just not good enough. Stability is overrated. Instant results are all that matters. 3 points lost. Promotion - nah highly unlikely. We have to attack and take control of games. Dominate the opposition. That is the only way we can earn promotion. Scoring goals. Never mind defending - attack is the best defense. We need a new manager, new players, a new playing style, a new stadium and anything else that is new and shining.

Even if I dont see everything as rosy, I really really like this post.

I would normally favour manager continuity but I don't see the post above as particularly constructive. I have become a lot more vocal in wanting change because of the lack of change in the past two games. I enjoy the fact that we have a likeable manager, and I was very much enjoying his success. I was definitely prepared for him to make positive differences this season to quickly dispel the problems of last season. I can quickly see that nothing has changed and Sabri is his own worst enemy. 

Why is it that Nottingham Forest seem to need much more time to bed in new signings. Loads of new signings at other clubs in the Prem and Championship absolutely smashed their debuts and had moved to their new clubs later than most of our signings. Why is it so hard to change our tactics? Nobody is asking for total football (well, most aren't). I however, want to see us play 10 to 15 yards further up the pitch. That doesn't require much coaching. I also don't want him to be so stubborn as he is being with various players who seem to get dumped out the squad and not not just Carv, not just Rib, not just benny, not just blah blah blah. If he can't handle different personalities in his playing staff then he is not a good manager.

There were 11 other teams that lost at the weekend. It might interest you to know that when one team wins the other loses.

We've played one league game and a cup game where he played half reserves. All clubs are dealing with the same issues, as you mention further down this thread, sport is simple. One simplicity being that despite the majority of teams trying to go up only 3 can. Its competitive, plenty of other sides expected to challenge lost too. If we keep losing then sure we can revisit but right now its only one league game in.

GaribaldiRED had it spot on above, the short termism is so frustrating. There are legitimate complaints about the side and the manager but despite claiming to have been open to giving him time you then immediately have given up after one narrow loss. Thats not giving the manager time. 

Feels like unless we battered QPR people would criticise. Look he'll probably get sacked in a month or so but until then it would probably be helpful to try and remain rational at least. At least there are no fans in crowd to inevitably rip the side to shreds next weekend if we concede a goal.

[ozzyten10]

I’m guilty of overreacting. I think it’s a hangover from the collapse last season that is still raw. The drab performance at Barnsley didn’t help and the qpr match compounded it. What worries me was the managers comments ‘Of course, we are disappointed because the first half was not so bad but we were not good enough to keep the point and not good enough to score in a good time.’
The first half was appalling.
I’m all for sticking with him but didn’t enjoy the majority of our home games last year.
I do hope he turns it around and do not agree with the scapegoating of Yates.

[Tricky]

Not overlooking it.  The defence has been beaten with scruffy goals and a simple mistake over the last two games and looked at sea for QPR's 2nd.

Everybody knows teams build from the back and defend from the front.  Perhaps the 1st thing on Forest's shopping list should have been an experienced CH.  (Guess Blackett is going to be used at LB?)

Figs has a mistake in him.  And Worrall can 'drift.'  (His track record at Rangers shows that.). They've both got mistakes in them.

And I think that's where Forest need a quality, commanding older (but not ancient) head alongside them.

That leaves Worrall to go back to his native position with Figs and the new incumbent to compete for that spot.

And yes.  There is a price for playing '20' goals Grabban.  Is he the kind of striker that defends from the front?

100% concentration for 90 minutes.  But Forest's switch off is usually in the 'last minute.'  Suggests the Coach can't coach it out of them or the footballer's at the back can't do what needs to be done.

Warburton's QPR managed to keep a clean sheet.  As did Aitor's Birmingham?

We can't overlook the lack of creativity in CM or on the wing.

They are contributing factors.  A monster CH, a ball playing CM and a quality providing winger have been elusive despite 7 signings (quite necessary as they were...to bring the squad depth unto the required quality.)

We seem to be short of talismanic players in the positions I mentioned.

SA.

Warburtons QPR only managed to keep a clean sheet because our 20 goals per season striker missed two absolute sitters, plus went just wide, along with Yates hitting the cross bar. 

I do agree we are short of creativity in the CM position and also agree that Blackett should play in his favoured LCH role with Worrall in the RCH position and Ribs back in the LB slot. Do we need anymore CH's though? At this moment in time I have to say no we don't. 

I felt Gabriel had a decent game and it is good to know that he is as capable as Cashy was with the long throw in. Should Jenkinson or Darikwa have started instead of Gabriel? Who knows.

[ozzyten10]

QPR constantly attacked our right side and eventually it crumbled.
Jenkinson should have played in this one.

You are right Ozzy. A lot was happening on that side both from QPR as well as Forest. Not sure what you mean by "it crumbled". I thought Gabriel did okay in his league debut.

Gabriel and figgs we’re constantly targeted. By collapse I meant the goal - Gabriel missing the header and figgs caught under the ball. The other thing that confused me was the middle two dcm were playing on the wrong sides- Yates right footed covered the left and colback left footed covered the right. Also Yates is good in the air and they were hoisting it constantly down the inside right channel - Yates may have counted that a little. 

All done now though. Hopefully improvements made over the weeks training. The cup loss could be a blessing.

[Jacksbadhobbits]

I’m guilty of overreacting. I think it’s a hangover from the collapse last season that is still raw. The drab performance at Barnsley didn’t help and the qpr match compounded it. What worries me was the managers comments ‘Of course, we are disappointed because the first half was not so bad but we were not good enough to keep the point and not good enough to score in a good time.’
The first half was appalling.
I’m all for sticking with him but didn’t enjoy the majority of our home games last year.
I do hope he turns it around and do not agree with the scapegoating of Yates.

Did QPR outplay us in the first half. We were not brilliant but QPR were no better. It was disjointed from both teams with players getting to know each other. Typical first match of the league season. We made some individual errors which cost us the points. Cue fan base meltdown.