Goals Creativity & Style Of Play

[the jock]

We lost 2 of our best players from last season also in cash and watson.

Could take colback a couple of months before he is upto speed

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

I also understand the impact the end of the season had on confidence in the coach. If we continue the 3 points from 6 form then Sabri will be out pretty quickly. Likewise, if we aren’t in the top six at Christmas he will be out. He won’t get another reprieve.

Spot on there Sabricadabra.

[zicorice]

Most fans want their clubs to win football matches and be successful. That is what most fans find entertaining.

There seems to be some confusion between playing poorly and a poor set up. It doesn’t matter how a team sets up if the team plays poorly.

Exactly that. Counter attacking football is exciting  - Cloughie enthralled us for years doing it. But if you keep giving the ball away and come 2nd in all the 50/50 situations, it wont end well!

[JollyLolly]

Agreed, counter attacking is good to watch. Cloughie's team had a purpose on how they achieved this, you new that at the end of each break-out of defence an opportunity would come if not a goal, don't see that with Sabri and the current team as to slow in the build-up and little end product.

[Tricky]

Agreed, counter attacking is good to watch. Cloughie's team had a purpose on how they achieved this, you new that at the end of each break-out of defence an opportunity would come if not a goal, don't see that with Sabri and the current team as to slow in the build-up and little end product.

There is some comparison with the mentality of both Cloughie and Sabri, in that they both only wanted players that wanted to play for the club. The comparison ends there though. Whilst Cloughie wanted his players to want to play for Nottingham Forest, he expected, no, demanded them to fight for the club too.

The only players who were totally commited to fighting for the club last season, IMO, were Worrall (still subject to interest from Burnley), Cash (sold to Villa) and Watson (Likely to leave and move back down south). There were fleeting glimpses from Ameobi, Lolley and Grabban, but not enough to inspire me this season. Colback, i feel will give his all for the club, but I just don't see anyone else with enough steel in the side to want to fight for the side and that can be said for most of our teams over the past twenty one years. There have been some former players who were prepared to go the extra mile for the Reds, but not enough of them!

We need players who bleed NFFC, will push themselves to the very absolute limits for the badge, will throw themselves in front of anything to get that block in or be on the end of an incoming cross. 

SHILTON, ANDERSON, CLARK AND BARRETT, MCGOVERN, LLOYD, BURNS, GEMMILL, BOWYER, O'NEILL, WITHE AND BIRTLES, WOODCOCK, ROBERTSON - a list of players who didnt just want to play for Nottingham Forest but wanted to fight to the very end of every match for us too!!!

[zicorice]

Agreed, counter attacking is good to watch. Cloughie's team had a purpose on how they achieved this, you new that at the end of each break-out of defence an opportunity would come if not a goal, don't see that with Sabri and the current team as to slow in the build-up and little end product.

There is some comparison with the mentality of both Cloughie and Sabri, in that they both only wanted players that wanted to play for the club. The comparison ends there though. Whilst Cloughie wanted his players to want to play for Nottingham Forest, he expected, no, demanded them to fight for the club too.

The only players who were totally commited to fighting for the club last season, IMO, were Worrall (still subject to interest from Burnley), Cash (sold to Villa) and Watson (Likely to leave and move back down south). There were fleeting glimpses from Ameobi, Lolley and Grabban, but not enough to inspire me this season. Colback, i feel will give his all for the club, but I just don't see anyone else with enough steel in the side to want to fight for the side and that can be said for most of our teams over the past twenty one years. There have been some former players who were prepared to go the extra mile for the Reds, but not enough of them!

We need players who bleed NFFC, will push themselves to the very absolute limits for the badge, will throw themselves in front of anything to get that block in or be on the end of an incoming cross. 

SHILTON, ANDERSON, CLARK AND BARRETT, MCGOVERN, LLOYD, BURNS, GEMMILL, BOWYER, O'NEILL, WITHE AND BIRTLES, WOODCOCK, ROBERTSON - a list of players who didnt just want to play for Nottingham Forest but wanted to fight to the very end of every match for us too!!!

I think it was more a lack of mental fortitude (esp what sports Pychs call Naf vs Nach. Need to avoid failure vs need to achieve). This stems also from many having a limited amount of ability.  I felt that in every game I saw (all home, many away) even when we were crap the effort, desire and work rate was clear. Think Cardiff home. Loads of huff and puff 32 shots was it? But no real end product. 

The players you highlight above were mostly top international players, double European Cup winners, playing under the greatest motivator of all time. Everyone one of them was light years ahead of everyone of our current squad in terms of ability AND mental fortitude. 

Experience like Colback and Taylor can only help this when its squeeky bum time.

[Tricky]

Agreed, counter attacking is good to watch. Cloughie's team had a purpose on how they achieved this, you new that at the end of each break-out of defence an opportunity would come if not a goal, don't see that with Sabri and the current team as to slow in the build-up and little end product.

There is some comparison with the mentality of both Cloughie and Sabri, in that they both only wanted players that wanted to play for the club. The comparison ends there though. Whilst Cloughie wanted his players to want to play for Nottingham Forest, he expected, no, demanded them to fight for the club too.

The only players who were totally commited to fighting for the club last season, IMO, were Worrall (still subject to interest from Burnley), Cash (sold to Villa) and Watson (Likely to leave and move back down south). There were fleeting glimpses from Ameobi, Lolley and Grabban, but not enough to inspire me this season. Colback, i feel will give his all for the club, but I just don't see anyone else with enough steel in the side to want to fight for the side and that can be said for most of our teams over the past twenty one years. There have been some former players who were prepared to go the extra mile for the Reds, but not enough of them!

We need players who bleed NFFC, will push themselves to the very absolute limits for the badge, will throw themselves in front of anything to get that block in or be on the end of an incoming cross. 

SHILTON, ANDERSON, CLARK AND BARRETT, MCGOVERN, LLOYD, BURNS, GEMMILL, BOWYER, O'NEILL, WITHE AND BIRTLES, WOODCOCK, ROBERTSON - a list of players who didnt just want to play for Nottingham Forest but wanted to fight to the very end of every match for us too!!!

I think it was more a lack of mental fortitude (esp what sports Pychs call Naf vs Nach. Need to avoid failure vs need to achieve). This stems also from many having a limited amount of ability.  I felt that in every game I saw (all home, many away) even when we were crap the effort, desire and work rate was clear. Think Cardiff home. Loads of huff and puff 32 shots was it? But no real end product. 

The players you highlight above were mostly top international players, double European Cup winners, playing under the greatest motivator of all time. Everyone one of them was light years ahead of everyone of our current squad in terms of ability AND mental fortitude. 

Experience like Colback and Taylor can only help this when its squeeky bum time.

I have to disagree with you there Zico. Apart from Shilton and Occasionally Gemmill, none of the others were internationals until after they had started playing for Forest. Clarke was considering retirement, Lloyd was burnt out, as was Burnsy. O'neill wasnt prolific for Northern Ireland at that time either. Birtles, Woodcock and Robbo all got their call ups after starting for Forest. Most of the above were not 2 times European Cup winners before they played for Forest either, Those cups were won afterwards. Cloughie was the great motivator though and got those players believing in themselves and their ability and got them wanting to fight for the badge, for the club and for him. 

Their mental fortitude only developed after Cloughie had cast his magic spell on them

[zicorice]

Agreed, counter attacking is good to watch. Cloughie's team had a purpose on how they achieved this, you new that at the end of each break-out of defence an opportunity would come if not a goal, don't see that with Sabri and the current team as to slow in the build-up and little end product.

There is some comparison with the mentality of both Cloughie and Sabri, in that they both only wanted players that wanted to play for the club. The comparison ends there though. Whilst Cloughie wanted his players to want to play for Nottingham Forest, he expected, no, demanded them to fight for the club too.

The only players who were totally commited to fighting for the club last season, IMO, were Worrall (still subject to interest from Burnley), Cash (sold to Villa) and Watson (Likely to leave and move back down south). There were fleeting glimpses from Ameobi, Lolley and Grabban, but not enough to inspire me this season. Colback, i feel will give his all for the club, but I just don't see anyone else with enough steel in the side to want to fight for the side and that can be said for most of our teams over the past twenty one years. There have been some former players who were prepared to go the extra mile for the Reds, but not enough of them!

We need players who bleed NFFC, will push themselves to the very absolute limits for the badge, will throw themselves in front of anything to get that block in or be on the end of an incoming cross. 

SHILTON, ANDERSON, CLARK AND BARRETT, MCGOVERN, LLOYD, BURNS, GEMMILL, BOWYER, O'NEILL, WITHE AND BIRTLES, WOODCOCK, ROBERTSON - a list of players who didnt just want to play for Nottingham Forest but wanted to fight to the very end of every match for us too!!!

I think it was more a lack of mental fortitude (esp what sports Pychs call Naf vs Nach. Need to avoid failure vs need to achieve). This stems also from many having a limited amount of ability.  I felt that in every game I saw (all home, many away) even when we were crap the effort, desire and work rate was clear. Think Cardiff home. Loads of huff and puff 32 shots was it? But no real end product. 

The players you highlight above were mostly top international players, double European Cup winners, playing under the greatest motivator of all time. Everyone one of them was light years ahead of everyone of our current squad in terms of ability AND mental fortitude. 

Experience like Colback and Taylor can only help this when its squeeky bum time.

I have to disagree with you there Zico. Apart from Shilton and Occasionally Gemmill, none of the others were internationals until after they had started playing for Forest. Clarke was considering retirement, Lloyd was burnt out, as was Burnsy. O'neill wasnt prolific for Northern Ireland at that time either. Birtles, Woodcock and Robbo all got their call ups after starting for Forest. Most of the above were not 2 times European Cup winners before they played for Forest either, Those cups were won afterwards. Cloughie was the great motivator though and got those players believing in themselves and their ability and got them wanting to fight for the badge, for the club and for him. 

Their mental fortitude only developed after Cloughie had cast his magic spell on them

I meant in their careers. Perhaps it would have been more accurate to say they went on to become twice European Champions etc... The lads already at Forest were mostly young and clearly had a tonne more ability than anything in the current 2nd tier - Sammy Chapman and Terry Curran included in terms of ability not youth). Lloyd had years at Liverpool under his belt tbf and Burns wasnt burnt out, but he wasnt a centre back either. He notched 18 up front for Brum the year before we signed him.

For all that Cloughie (& Taylor) performed a miracle getting players to consistently perform to the best of their ability.

If internet was about in 1975 though, Cloughie may not have lasted long enough to do what he did!

I'm sure you will agree that the current squad, (whilst honest and give alot), are not fit to lace the boots of the names you list in terms of ability or bottle.

[BadDog]

Collymore & Roy counter-attacking with Bohinen in behind was a joy to behold.

[tugger2018]

Tricky you can add Yates to that list he lays his body on the line every game and always gets flattened

[Widdow]

We also need to concede fewer. Leeds, WBA, Fulham and Brentford all let in fewer goals, but:

Taylor is one of the most clinical and experienced strikers in the Championship, so he’s a big improvement on Mir, Walker etc. Grabban had to play virtually every game and visibly tired towards the end of the season. He will get more support this time with Taylor and Guerrero being able to see out games off the bench, Taylor rotating, and Guerrero being able to step in against certain opponents.

Freeman is a big improvement in creativity. He’s an experienced Championship player who creates chances and adds creativity and incisiveness to an attack. Maybe Carvalho will look like the player he did under Karanka.

Mighten and Johnson have a season of experience under their belts and may well contribute more than last season.

Sabri now has more options than last season. His biggest problem last season was that there was little in the way of reliable depth in the squad. The additions of Taylor and Freeman make a big difference on their own.

The other problem was not scoring enough at home.  Again, Taylor and Freeman can make the difference.
We don’t need to score more away. What would make a big difference is having match winners to up our goals per game average at home. We dropped far too many points at home last season.

It won’t need much. A defence which concedes fewer than a goal a game and another extra goal every 5-10 games and we will be right up there.

Lots of players but....still no goals and creativity. No hindsight from me

[Widdow]

We also need to concede fewer. Leeds, WBA, Fulham and Brentford all let in fewer goals, but:

Taylor is one of the most clinical and experienced strikers in the Championship, so he’s a big improvement on Mir, Walker etc. Grabban had to play virtually every game and visibly tired towards the end of the season. He will get more support this time with Taylor and Guerrero being able to see out games off the bench, Taylor rotating, and Guerrero being able to step in against certain opponents.

Freeman is a big improvement in creativity. He’s an experienced Championship player who creates chances and adds creativity and incisiveness to an attack. Maybe Carvalho will look like the player he did under Karanka.

Mighten and Johnson have a season of experience under their belts and may well contribute more than last season.

Sabri now has more options than last season. His biggest problem last season was that there was little in the way of reliable depth in the squad. The additions of Taylor and Freeman make a big difference on their own.

The other problem was not scoring enough at home.  Again, Taylor and Freeman can make the difference.
We don’t need to score more away. What would make a big difference is having match winners to up our goals per game average at home. We dropped far too many points at home last season.

It won’t need much. A defence which concedes fewer than a goal a game and another extra goal every 5-10 games and we will be right up there.

Lots of players but....still no goals and creativity. No hindsight from me

Still true