2020/21 Season: Could We See A Change In Playing Style?

[Sabricadabra]

We scored 12 and conceded 12 in the last 10 mins of matches over the season.

The main problem wasnt about individual games like Barnsley, it was the poor form since the lockdown which killed us. 3 points from our last 6 matches is worse than relegation form.

[stirred]

We scored 12 and conceded 12 in the last 10 mins of matches over the season.

The main problem wasnt about individual games like Barnsley, it was the poor form since the lockdown which killed us. 3 points from our last 6 matches is worse than relegation form.

A team pushing for promotion should be scoring more than they concede. We do over the rest of matches, so not doing so at the ends does suggest an issue there. Pretty sure when I looked we were net down on points from late goals, too often we turned 3 points into 1.

FWIW I think it's primarily that we needed to be able to retain possession better and have the threat to punish teams when they push forwards near the end, rather than it being an issue with the defence. They were put under too much pressure having to defend more balls than they should have had to deal with.

Come to think of it, where we are leading and the opposition is taking risks to search for an equalizer, statistically that should play into the hands of the team winning (and higher in the league). So yep, I think it's a thing, I think it's highlighting a shortcoming in the squad. Over to you Francois.

[PsychoStanleyStone]

regarding the thread title, i only see skint dead people, hope that helps

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

We scored 12 and conceded 12 in the last 10 mins of matches over the season.

The main problem wasnt about individual games like Barnsley, it was the poor form since the lockdown which killed us. 3 points from our last 6 matches is worse than relegation form.

A team pushing for promotion should be scoring more than they concede. We do over the rest of matches, so not doing so at the ends does suggest an issue there. Pretty sure when I looked we were net down on points from late goals, too often we turned 3 points into 1.

FWIW I think it's primarily that we needed to be able to retain possession better and have the threat to punish teams when they push forwards near the end, rather than it being an issue with the defence. They were put under too much pressure having to defend more balls than they should have had to deal with.

Come to think of it, where we are leading and the opposition is taking risks to search for an equalizer, statistically that should play into the hands of the team winning (and higher in the league). So yep, I think it's a thing, I think it's highlighting a shortcoming in the squad. Over to you Francois.

Good posts and an interesting read. This shouldn't be too much of a problem to sort out hopefully.

[GaribaldiRED]

We scored 12 and conceded 12 in the last 10 mins of matches over the season.

The main problem wasnt about individual games like Barnsley, it was the poor form since the lockdown which killed us. 3 points from our last 6 matches is worse than relegation form.

A team pushing for promotion should be scoring more than they concede. We do over the rest of matches, so not doing so at the ends does suggest an issue there. Pretty sure when I looked we were net down on points from late goals, too often we turned 3 points into 1.

FWIW I think it's primarily that we needed to be able to retain possession better and have the threat to punish teams when they push forwards near the end, rather than it being an issue with the defence. They were put under too much pressure having to defend more balls than they should have had to deal with.

Come to think of it, where we are leading and the opposition is taking risks to search for an equalizer, statistically that should play into the hands of the team winning (and higher in the league). So yep, I think it's a thing, I think it's highlighting a shortcoming in the squad. Over to you Francois.

I believe these are the situation where the team get too passive in their defensive block. The team fall deeper and deeper and we stop pressing as one unit resulting in extra space being offered to the opposition. Then panic starts and the team start clearing aimlessly long when winning possession. And then it starts all over again. If Sabri can fix that next season then we will be very difficult to beat. Less goals conceded and more goals scored as we should take advantage of the opposition moving their team higher up the pitch.

[Marinakis Red]

The one thing that concerns me is setting up with a negative mindset, not allowing attacking players reach their potential, spend too much energy defending chasing back rather than driving at the oppositions defence. 

We witnessed that far too much last season that is what really needs to change for me, to get out of a league you have to attack it,look to create and score goals. 

You can really affect players confidence by not believing they can win a game and that shows. Trust them have faith in there ability. We need to step away from that mindset of setting up not to lose, and set up to win the game and breed confidence that's when players develop and take their game to the next level. 

Over to you Sabri......it is your time to believe and change mindsets to a positive one.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Sabri will need to me more aggressive and offensive minded this season. Ofcourse it helps with better playing staff

I think you nailed it there.

It's why we were a goal out.  Why we bottled it.  Why the 1st eleven were out on their feet.

Tohave a plan b you need good plan b players who can mix it.

Eg.  I'd rather we'd have spent on a Lee Tomlin.  He's really annoying to play against.  Unpredictable.  Tough and holds up play.

Flash.

[Tricky]

The one thing that concerns me is setting up with a negative mindset, not allowing attacking players reach their potential, spend too much energy defending chasing back rather than driving at the oppositions defence. 

We witnessed that far too much last season that is what really needs to change for me, to get out of a league you have to attack it,look to create and score goals. 

You can really affect players confidence by not believing they can win a game and that shows. Trust them have faith in there ability. We need to step away from that mindset of setting up not to lose, and set up to win the game and breed confidence that's when players develop and take their game to the next level. 

Over to you Sabri......it is your time to believe and change mindsets to a positive one.

Well said KR. A cracking post!

[Strawberry Avenger]

We scored 12 and conceded 12 in the last 10 mins of matches over the season.

The main problem wasnt about individual games like Barnsley, it was the poor form since the lockdown which killed us. 3 points from our last 6 matches is worse than relegation form.

A team pushing for promotion should be scoring more than they concede. We do over the rest of matches, so not doing so at the ends does suggest an issue there. Pretty sure when I looked we were net down on points from late goals, too often we turned 3 points into 1.

FWIW I think it's primarily that we needed to be able to retain possession better and have the threat to punish teams when they push forwards near the end, rather than it being an issue with the defence. They were put under too much pressure having to defend more balls than they should have had to deal with.

Come to think of it, where we are leading and the opposition is taking risks to search for an equalizer, statistically that should play into the hands of the team winning (and higher in the league). So yep, I think it's a thing, I think it's highlighting a shortcoming in the squad. Over to you Francois.

I believe these are the situation where the team get too passive in their defensive block. The team fall deeper and deeper and we stop pressing as one unit resulting in extra space being offered to the opposition. Then panic starts and the team start clearing aimlessly long when winning possession. And then it starts all over again. If Sabri can fix that next season then we will be very difficult to beat. Less goals conceded and more goals scored as we should take advantage of the opposition moving their team higher up the pitch.

True.

Still need more players of a robust plan b character.


All along the spine of the side.  

SA.

[GaribaldiRED]

First and foremost I believe we have to better at executing plan A. This for me starts with the defensive structure and pressing that needs to be spot on if we are to evolve as a counter attacking team. With a better defensive structure, movement and pressing we should be able to create more counter attacking situations (forcing the opposition into making errors). Enforcements are required most notably in midfield I would say.

Karanka red, I would say that you are definitely in the "change playing style" camp. I think I can see where you are coming from and I believe many share this belief that if Forest only start playing possession football and attack teams then all will be well. The best form of defense is attack and all of that. Being good at defending is considered negative even though it should be obvious that the current tactic Sabri has implemented is focused on creating the best possible counter attacking opportunities thus maximizing the probability of a successful outcome. Branding this as having a negative mindset is far off the mark IMO.

[Shawoddyred]

First and foremost I believe we have to better at executing plan A. This for me starts with the defensive structure and pressing that needs to be spot on if we are to evolve as a counter attacking team. With a better defensive structure, movement and pressing we should be able to create more counter attacking situations (forcing the opposition into making errors). Enforcements are required most notably in midfield I would say.

Karanka red, I would say that you are definitely in the "change playing style" camp. I think I can see where you are coming from and I believe many share this belief that if Forest only start playing possession football and attack teams then all will be well. The best form of defense is attack and all of that. Being good at defending is considered negative even though it should be obvious that the current tactic Sabri has implemented is focused on creating the best possible counter attacking opportunities thus maximizing the probability of a successful outcome. Branding this as having a negative mindset is far off the mark IMO.

Personally I can see the way we want to play and have no problem with that. The problem I have is that we become far too entrenched on our 6 yard line late on in games. We can play the counter attacking football and still try to win the ball back a bit further up the field, and also have a player or 2 that are a bit closer to the opposition half so there is an outlet. 

Similarly, being able to change up occasionally, pressing much higher up the pitch when an opposition is chasing our 1 goal lead rather then backing off further and further would make a massive difference I believe. I really don't believe in inviting penalty box pinball, which seems to be where we end up. When we are a goal up, with 5 minutes remaining then trying to win the ball around the half way line would give us much more opportunity to hold out and possibly score a second. The oppo still have the impetus to attack to salvage their draw so their defence will not be in place and how often does a defender mistake lead to a goal...these are the players we need to be pressing, who are less comfortable in possession. 

I do massively agree that it is in midfield we need an upgrade. I think Watson, although has done well, does limit out ability to press higher up - he is move of an absorber of pressure than someone who can press.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

The thing about Barnsley is that we came within 30 seconds of pulling it off and qualifying for the play offs. 30 seconds! I am sure that Sabri would have been lauded after the match for a defensive masterclass had the game finished 30 seconds earlier and we got the one point needed for the play offs.

He really wouldnt have been lauded Sniff, we were utterly atrocious from start to finish in that game never mind conceding the goal, go back and look at the match thread. We fully deserved to lose.

There is a world of difference between a defensive masterclass, Catenaccio, shithousing or whatever you want to call it that we put on at Fulham away and the terrified hoofball we served up at the end of the season. We wouldnt have got anywhere near the playoff final had we limped over the line playing in that way.
The playing style from earlier in the season is fine to emulate but needs to be done better. Even when getting results too often it looked like we were hanging on by our fingernails rather than controlling the game. For me that boils down to weakness in midfield positions and not being able to keep the ball.