NFFC Financial Talk

[Sabricadabra]

Notts CCC don’t have a £35m annual wage bill.

[PsychoStanleyStone]

Different ball game.

[Widdow]

I agree with Ozzy, EM should now show his true intent with regard to Forest, supply the funds required to enable Sabri to buy the quality players he needs and to come out and give firm details of a start date for the development.

Because FFP limits will prevent him from spending that kind of money on transfers and why should we expect EM to spend £100 million from his own pocket to rebuild the main stand. Unlike Nigel Forest was not his boyhood club. The club is a business opportunity. Having a lifelong supporter own the club did not really work out. The less said about his successor the better. I will be pleased if EM runs the club professionally. That is the most we can ask. Finance for the stand and club needs to be found in a sustainable way and not on the whim of a benefactor.

This year the FFP rules will be relaxed due to the losses of Covid. If they can invest wisely and also get the high calibre players to really go for it. 

The owner keeps saying minimum position at end of season is play offs yet not done that yet. Now is the year to push on not sell prized assets at a time when values have reduced. 

Spend big now, keep best players and hey if we don’t go up we can sell next year, if we do go up, then FFP won’t be an issue 

All depends on the ambition of the owners and their willing to invest on the pitch. As success on the pitch improves everything about a football club and city.

[Madforit]

I agree with Ozzy, EM should now show his true intent with regard to Forest, supply the funds required to enable Sabri to buy the quality players he needs and to come out and give firm details of a start date for the development.

Because FFP limits will prevent him from spending that kind of money on transfers and why should we expect EM to spend £100 million from his own pocket to rebuild the main stand. Unlike Nigel Forest was not his boyhood club. The club is a business opportunity. Having a lifelong supporter own the club did not really work out. The less said about his successor the better. I will be pleased if EM runs the club professionally. That is the most we can ask. Finance for the stand and club needs to be found in a sustainable way and not on the whim of a benefactor.

This year the FFP rules will be relaxed due to the losses of Covid. If they can invest wisely and also get the high calibre players to really go for it. 

The owner keeps saying minimum position at end of season is play offs yet not done that yet. Now is the year to push on not sell prized assets at a time when values have reduced. 

Spend big now, keep best players and hey if we don’t go up we can sell next year, if we do go up, then FFP won’t be an issue 

All depends on the ambition of the owners and their willing to invest on the pitch. As success on the pitch improves everything about a football club and city.

Agreed ^

[Jean_claude_killy]

I just cannot see us spending big for two reasons:

The relaxation of the rules do not allow Clubs carte blanche to spend what they like.

Owners of Clubs will be allowed to inject more money into their Clubs but it must be justified against lost revenue - it will be compared on a like for like basis - lost attendance money, lost advertising, sponsorship and media related.

The 2019/20 and 2020/21 seasons will be viewed as a whole with each Clubs accounts being scrutinised for failure to comply.

Secondly, a wage cap is going to be introduced.

At the moment we do not know if it will be implemented this season but a large number of Clubs are pushing for it to be introduced now.

If the current proposals get voted in, it will most probably mean the end of big transfers in the EFL; even for Clubs with parachute money.

[stirred]

I read it today in The Guardian I think it was.

It states that the current 2020 financial year will not be assessed at all under FFP procedures, and will instead be rolled up into 2021, and the two years assessed together as a single financial period.

Uefa also confirmed that clubs would be allowed losses in excess of €30m as long as they show this was caused by falls in revenues because of the shutdown caused by Covid 19.

Bumping this post. UEFA are allowing clubs to count lost revenue as a result of covid from ticket sales etc towards FFP. It doesn't mean we can spend any more on players or wages. It just means, if the EFL adopt them, and if Marinakis is willing to, he can cover the loss of revenue out of his own pocket.

The other change is scrapping 2019/20 from the 3 year rolling window. So for the 3 seasons just gone, FFP will only cover 2 seasons (2017/18 & 2018/19). After next season, it will cover 4 seasons (2017/18, 2018/19, 2019/20 & 2020/21), with the losses of the latter 2 seasons halved so they roughly reflect one season, and in total resembles a 3 year period. Total allowed losses, after accounting for covid affected revenue, are unchanged.

So it does not mean Marinakis can go out and spend on players, unfortunately.

What I did note though is that only 2 seasons are counted in the recent observation period, not 3 seasons, yet the permitted loss does not seem to have changed. So clubs who could have breached it this season may have got a reprieve.

Though because the following reporting period is extended to 4 seasons, 2017/18 which would have rolled off will still be included. So bad if you made large losses in that year. Good if you didn't.

Note these are the UEFA rule changes, I don't think the EFL have decided on whether they will reflect these changes exactly or go off piste yet.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

To say EM isnt committed when he is supporting a project with an annual operating loss of £34M is a bit much. To be honest any sane businessman would walk away tomorrow.

Just because P&S rules are relaxed this year doesnt mean we go bonkers either, thats what caused the crash of 2008 when bankers said you could borrow as much as you liked to buy a house whether you could afford to repay it or not, plus agree with comments regarding wage caps.

He has committed to improve the ground, plans submitted which is further than we have got for the last 25 years. Anyone can produce some architect sketches but we have progressed far further than that.

[ozzyten10]

We don’t lose 34m a season - nowhere near that! I am appreciative of whoever stumps up the cash to keep us competitive- from doughty to fawaz to Marinakis. But it should be questioned when our only real saleable assets are academy products. That foresight should be attributed to doughty.

[Widdow]

Wages are a stranglehold on finances, but hey that is the same for all clubs, we have a better fan support and income than most of the clubs in league.

Let’s not forget when considering wages, a lot of the high earners draining the clubs money were signed under the new owners.

The silence on the new stand is piss poor, and the lack of interviews with any top level about future of the club. I mean how badly has Covid hit us (not heard anything on that since chairman wrote his letter) do they still have major plans for the club, what’s the hold up on the stadium, any statements of intent which they can follow up on?

Any communication would be better than silence. Sure as soon as season ticket sales come on Back sale I am sure we will hear again from them and how they need our support. Well come on that works both ways.

No promises and nothing delivered thus far.

[JollyLolly]

Again, I agree with Ozzy on this point, if we did not waste our income so much over the years we would not have to sell our crown jewels!

[Sabricadabra]

We were losing £11m a year in the last accounts. I think the £34m refers to our wage bill.

[wassy04]

He's referring to operating loss of 35m, this is bwfore player sales although does include player amortisation ie purchases (8m in last account)

Best to look at EBITDA (Earnings before income, tax and depreciation) so 27m. However player sales is a perfectly acceptable business plan (although hindered in this window by the pandemic.

You can see why clubs are desperate to get a salary cap in, when you see how much most are spending on wages. Any loss is obviously covered by the owner, so he's likely investing around 10-15m a year. Not cheap!

For me biggest mistake was pushing so hard to go up straight away. Restructuring wage bill and building from the academy would've been my preference.