The Inquest Now The Dust Has Settled

[Paplane]

It is true. We went from being linked with proven championship players who would have strengthened both first team and squad to getting a bunch of stocking fillers from a discount pound land.

Da Costa - unproven and not prolific as a striker. Also for a 29 year old has played 149 times in whole professional career. 22 year old Cash has already played five more times in his career.

Walker - a player who was doing well in League One but had been tried three or four times by previous managers and considered not good enough for championship. He is 23 years old so surely it was now or never. Was barely used before and after the break came on once for about 1 minute

Diakhaby - one of the worst players to turn out in a Forest shirt. God knows what any of the clubs who shat out a combined £18 million for him.

Bong - he featured for 59 minutes and hasn't been seen since.

No good trying to defend these signings. We needed more attacking options with pace - well they got them in. Just that the quality was not there. They added one goal, no assists and did nothing to provide defensive cover.

This lack of strengthening fatally undermined the second half of the season and during the restart the players who could be chosen simply ran out of steam.

That's all absolutely it. Every word true.

[Paplane]

It is true. We went from being linked with proven championship players who would have strengthened both first team and squad to getting a bunch of stocking fillers from a discount pound land.

Da Costa - unproven and not prolific as a striker. Also for a 29 year old has played 149 times in whole professional career. 22 year old Cash has already played five more times in his career.

Walker - a player who was doing well in League One but had been tried three or four times by previous managers and considered not good enough for championship. He is 23 years old so surely it was now or never. Was barely used before and after the break came on once for about 1 minute

Diakhaby - one of the worst players to turn out in a Forest shirt. God knows what any of the clubs who shat out a combined £18 million for him.

Bong - he featured for 59 minutes and hasn't been seen since.

No good trying to defend these signings. We needed more attacking options with pace - well they got them in. Just that the quality was not there. They added one goal, no assists and did nothing to provide defensive cover.

This lack of strengthening fatally undermined the second half of the season and during the restart the players who could be chosen simply ran out of steam.

That's all absolutely it. Every word true.

I didn't realise Da Costa was 29! I thought he was a young-ish lad with a promising future. I've been encouraged by his performances and put his lack of defensive ability down to the naivety & inexperience of a player just starting out. Don't know what to think about him now.

[Widdow]

Seems to be a couple of tweets suggesting Francois Modesto and Jose Anigo are leaving the club. Has anyone heard anything?

Probably folks putting 2 and 2 together and getting 22

[Shawoddyred]

It seems like most people have got over the other night and now would prefer Sabri to stay on. Honestly, I disagree...I would completely agree if his tactics weren't so clearly negative and 'not to lose'. I think the comparison with Leeds throwing it away last year and Bielsa is a non-starter - the way they play football is completely different and they dominate teams, press, try to score...I would happily give that kind of manager the chance to build a club playing style.

Most of the support for continuing with Sabri is to build a style and not change again...I don't really want to build on a backs to the wall style and actually make it more entrenched by sticking with it when it has started to fail. This would then make it even harder to change to a more progressive style when the new manager comes in later this year (something I think will be inevitable as I don't believe we will suddenly develop a plan B etc etc and I can't see anything but us carrying on our poor form since February). Signings in January were pants, but we still have enough players available to play an adapted and more positive game than anything I've seen us try.

[Madforit]

It seems like most people have got over the other night and now would prefer Sabri to stay on. Honestly, I disagree...I would completely agree if his tactics weren't so clearly negative and 'not to lose'. I think the comparison with Leeds throwing it away last year and Bielsa is a non-starter - the way they play football is completely different and they dominate teams, press, try to score...I would happily give that kind of manager the chance to build a club playing style.

Most of the support for continuing with Sabri is to build a style and not change again...I don't really want to build on a backs to the wall style and actually make it more entrenched by sticking with it when it has started to fail. This would then make it even harder to change to a more progressive style when the new manager comes in later this year (something I think will be inevitable as I don't believe we will suddenly develop a plan B etc etc and I can't see anything but us carrying on our poor form since February). Signings in January were pants, but we still have enough players available to play an adapted and more positive game than anything I've seen us try.

 Totally agree ^

[wassy04]

I'm on the fence, although I think it'll be tough for Sabri to change things given the short turnaround and likely financial issues. However statistically you need at least a year managing teams before getting promoted.

I was trying to find the last manager to get promoted in the same season from championship and I couldn't find any. So given the decision to sack or keep is pretty close, this for me suggests we should side with keep.

It will depend on budgets and plans for the squad next season though. If there's no budget we're in trouble, even if we keep the squad largely together its very average.

[Widdow]

Well, not sure this is the best time to overhaul a squad (again) as it is a short break, and finances have been hit due to the pandemic, yet with complications, it can present a major opportunity, but that depends on if the Big Greek has got the money to invest in the side, and if he wants promotion, then he has to do just that.

Reason for an opportunity, other clubs may need to sell, club, players, agents will not be able to demand such high wages and fees, align that with the FFP rules being relaxed as clubs get back on the "horse" and stabilize in this unsure financial times, surely we can take advantage of it?

Do Marinakis (and his co-owner Socrates Kominakis, ) have the money, and the passion, that is the question?

So far his recruitment (backroom staff) and players have not reaped rewards, we have added more players to the bomb squad and wasted money on rubbish (pay cheap you pay twice comes to mind)

His team (and where his heart lies and drives decisions) is Olympiacos (it always will be), and he is now back on top in Greece, after splashing the cash on them, whilst Forest are a business he runs, and makes decisions with his head.

Well for me it is time to run with both his head and heart, if he wants success on and off the pitch.

IF he keeps Sabri, then he simply must back him, getting the recruitment right is crucial. January was a disaster which for one I didn’t need hindsight for that, said it enough at the time. I would love to hear more on why failed on getting Sabris targets and end up shopping in the basement bin for signings?

If he sacks Sabri, then again, he needs to give the new guy every chance to succeed, someone who knows the league (Sabri himself said it took him ages to understand the Championship, and even now I am sure he still doesn’t understand it, which has been highlighted since project restart)

Everyone says all now it is all about FFP, well we shouldn’t be having an issue with that, since the new owners have come in the have spent less on transfer fees that they have brought in. Keeping our best and proven players is paramount to another promotion chase and back them up with key signings. We can always sell players next year if he doesn’t work!

Its been mentioned that the likes of Biesila had 2 seasons to get promotion (he got a lot closer in his first season I should add) but he was fully backed in the market (and had an amazing track record most places he has been). Even when sold one of their best defenders to Brentford, they only did that as they had a key signing in mind. We sell players and struggle to bring anyone in, like end of last summer crying our for a proven striker, we sold Arvin Appiah for £8m but didn’t spend it bringing in reinforcements, and then in January only spent £2m on that, but that was easily covered by selling Robinson and Chema.

It actually could be an opportune time to fight promotion. No Leeds, no West Brom, and teams coming down are not massive and will have to sell. That and the likes of Sheff Wed and Derby looking at point penalties and the teams coming up from League one don’t exactly strike fear they will make a splash!

FFP rules will be relaxed, so if the Owner has real ambition, has real money then the time is to prove it and deliver, not just sack managers who he hasn’t backed and wonder why it all went wrong!

[Paplane]

It seems like most people have got over the other night and now would prefer Sabri to stay on. Honestly, I disagree...I would completely agree if his tactics weren't so clearly negative and 'not to lose'. I think the comparison with Leeds throwing it away last year and Bielsa is a non-starter - the way they play football is completely different and they dominate teams, press, try to score...I would happily give that kind of manager the chance to build a club playing style.

Most of the support for continuing with Sabri is to build a style and not change again...I don't really want to build on a backs to the wall style and actually make it more entrenched by sticking with it when it has started to fail. This would then make it even harder to change to a more progressive style when the new manager comes in later this year (something I think will be inevitable as I don't believe we will suddenly develop a plan B etc etc and I can't see anything but us carrying on our poor form since February). Signings in January were pants, but we still have enough players available to play an adapted and more positive game than anything I've seen us try.

If Sabri was backed again, we'd hardly be left with a team full or Warnock type cloggers though would we? Who in our squad at the moment would you say couldn't adapt to a new system? Players are players, tactics are tactics.

[Shawoddyred]

It seems like most people have got over the other night and now would prefer Sabri to stay on. Honestly, I disagree...I would completely agree if his tactics weren't so clearly negative and 'not to lose'. I think the comparison with Leeds throwing it away last year and Bielsa is a non-starter - the way they play football is completely different and they dominate teams, press, try to score...I would happily give that kind of manager the chance to build a club playing style.

Most of the support for continuing with Sabri is to build a style and not change again...I don't really want to build on a backs to the wall style and actually make it more entrenched by sticking with it when it has started to fail. This would then make it even harder to change to a more progressive style when the new manager comes in later this year (something I think will be inevitable as I don't believe we will suddenly develop a plan B etc etc and I can't see anything but us carrying on our poor form since February). Signings in January were pants, but we still have enough players available to play an adapted and more positive game than anything I've seen us try.

If Sabri was backed again, we'd hardly be left with a team full or Warnock type cloggers though would we? Who in our squad at the moment would you say couldn't adapt to a new system? Players are players, tactics are tactics.

I do agree with that point but lots of people seem to think that you build a club ethos and style for the academy teams to follow etc. Players can adapt, of course they can, but it probably does take a bit of time to change again. To be honest, your point helps the argument that we could change Sabri now and be ok going into the new season in a few weeks. 

It really does feel so much better when the manager does seem to be a genuinely likeable bloke and I do hate talking about people's livelihoods to be honest, but I really am unsure that we will be in a good place as a team and club if we stick with him - he just doesn't seem to want to dominate the teams we could dominate and that for me is a big problem for a club trying to be ambitious. He could learn before next season starts but he's messed up a few times this season and not changed but actually seemed to double down on the defensive side....and I personally don't buy into it being the players at his disposal

[Paplane]

It seems like most people have got over the other night and now would prefer Sabri to stay on. Honestly, I disagree...I would completely agree if his tactics weren't so clearly negative and 'not to lose'. I think the comparison with Leeds throwing it away last year and Bielsa is a non-starter - the way they play football is completely different and they dominate teams, press, try to score...I would happily give that kind of manager the chance to build a club playing style.

Most of the support for continuing with Sabri is to build a style and not change again...I don't really want to build on a backs to the wall style and actually make it more entrenched by sticking with it when it has started to fail. This would then make it even harder to change to a more progressive style when the new manager comes in later this year (something I think will be inevitable as I don't believe we will suddenly develop a plan B etc etc and I can't see anything but us carrying on our poor form since February). Signings in January were pants, but we still have enough players available to play an adapted and more positive game than anything I've seen us try.

If Sabri was backed again, we'd hardly be left with a team full or Warnock type cloggers though would we? Who in our squad at the moment would you say couldn't adapt to a new system? Players are players, tactics are tactics.

I do agree with that point but lots of people seem to think that you build a club ethos and style for the academy teams to follow etc. Players can adapt, of course they can, but it probably does take a bit of time to change again. To be honest, your point helps the argument that we could change Sabri now and be ok going into the new season in a few weeks. 

It really does feel so much better when the manager does seem to be a genuinely likeable bloke and I do hate talking about people's livelihoods to be honest, but I really am unsure that we will be in a good place as a team and club if we stick with him - he just doesn't seem to want to dominate the teams we could dominate and that for me is a big problem for a club trying to be ambitious. He could learn before next season starts but he's messed up a few times this season and not changed but actually seemed to double down on the defensive side....and I personally don't buy into it being the players at his disposal

He's had one single senior striker to play with all season. One single player to carry the load up top for an entire season. He allows Cash and Ribeiro to advance up the field and supplement the attack - that's a modern way of doing things these days and the opposition have to try to counteract that. He has nothing to play with centrally in midfield. Semedo, Bostock, Carvalho all no-shows for whatever reason. Put a swashbuckling player like Geddy (in his pomp) in his midfield and take out yates and we look a completely different side.

[Shawoddyred]

It seems like most people have got over the other night and now would prefer Sabri to stay on. Honestly, I disagree...I would completely agree if his tactics weren't so clearly negative and 'not to lose'. I think the comparison with Leeds throwing it away last year and Bielsa is a non-starter - the way they play football is completely different and they dominate teams, press, try to score...I would happily give that kind of manager the chance to build a club playing style.

Most of the support for continuing with Sabri is to build a style and not change again...I don't really want to build on a backs to the wall style and actually make it more entrenched by sticking with it when it has started to fail. This would then make it even harder to change to a more progressive style when the new manager comes in later this year (something I think will be inevitable as I don't believe we will suddenly develop a plan B etc etc and I can't see anything but us carrying on our poor form since February). Signings in January were pants, but we still have enough players available to play an adapted and more positive game than anything I've seen us try.

If Sabri was backed again, we'd hardly be left with a team full or Warnock type cloggers though would we? Who in our squad at the moment would you say couldn't adapt to a new system? Players are players, tactics are tactics.

I do agree with that point but lots of people seem to think that you build a club ethos and style for the academy teams to follow etc. Players can adapt, of course they can, but it probably does take a bit of time to change again. To be honest, your point helps the argument that we could change Sabri now and be ok going into the new season in a few weeks. 

It really does feel so much better when the manager does seem to be a genuinely likeable bloke and I do hate talking about people's livelihoods to be honest, but I really am unsure that we will be in a good place as a team and club if we stick with him - he just doesn't seem to want to dominate the teams we could dominate and that for me is a big problem for a club trying to be ambitious. He could learn before next season starts but he's messed up a few times this season and not changed but actually seemed to double down on the defensive side....and I personally don't buy into it being the players at his disposal

He's had one single senior striker to play with all season. One single player to carry the load up top for an entire season. He allows Cash and Ribeiro to advance up the field and supplement the attack - that's a modern way of doing things these days and the opposition have to try to counteract that. He has nothing to play with centrally in midfield. Semedo, Bostock, Carvalho all no-shows for whatever reason. Put a swashbuckling player like Geddy (in his pomp) in his midfield and take out yates and we look a completely different side.

Again, I do agree with your point, I would definitely be looking to strengthen up front and centre mid. But, perhaps Sabri's style has meant we haven't got the best out of the more attacking players we do have at our disposal. Maybe Mir isn't as crap as he seemed, Walker with a different manager perhaps (I would consider him a senior striker now having played over 150 times and being 23), I think Sammi could have played up front with Grabs etc. Point is, he has barely tried it and I'm sure he doesn't focus his coaching on it. And when we were playing poorly, he put on another CB when we already had 3 on the pitch. 
 
Similarly, why haven't our midfield players shown up more? Their talent or the system? It's quite easy to play the Watson way (not taking anything away from him, i do think he has done well), but sitting back does make it much harder to be swashbuckling further up the pitch as defenders don't need to worry about Watson advancing at speed.

[David]

It seems like most people have got over the other night and now would prefer Sabri to stay on. Honestly, I disagree...I would completely agree if his tactics weren't so clearly negative and 'not to lose'. I think the comparison with Leeds throwing it away last year and Bielsa is a non-starter - the way they play football is completely different and they dominate teams, press, try to score...I would happily give that kind of manager the chance to build a club playing style.

Most of the support for continuing with Sabri is to build a style and not change again...I don't really want to build on a backs to the wall style and actually make it more entrenched by sticking with it when it has started to fail. This would then make it even harder to change to a more progressive style when the new manager comes in later this year (something I think will be inevitable as I don't believe we will suddenly develop a plan B etc etc and I can't see anything but us carrying on our poor form since February). Signings in January were pants, but we still have enough players available to play an adapted and more positive game than anything I've seen us try.

Totally agree . As a season ticket holder ( and 2 European cup attendees) I have left matches bored and wondering why we play one up front at home , score first , then hang on with everybody  behind the ball waiting for the final whistle . Old big head used to say it was criminal to lose at home , we celebrate a draw