Would You Trust Recruitment With Summer 2020?

[Alf]

This is a good debate. Why terminate it other than the moderators disagreeing with the opposing side of the debate? Quite right to delete the offensive ones but that’s what you’re there for with respect.

The transfer men have had had mixed fortunes, no doubt about it. But that will happen whether we’re sifting through the bargain basement as it seems we were in January or even if we are spending big as with Cavalho. In my opinion, the more pertinent question ought to be ‘why are we not spending a little more to take us over the line?’

Money doesn’t guarantee success but it certainly helps. This manager has performed admirably and really deserved a lot more from the hierarchy in January. The squad is threadbare in terms of quality. The first team now virtually picks itself and after that, I wince at the names that appear in the event of injuries.

So was it actually the transfer team that let us down in Jan or was it Mr Marinakos?

That's a great post all round Woody. If we're not gonna go all in when we're 3rd & 2pts off the autos, then when will we?

But let's not forget that, as predictably poor as it's worked out so far, we did also spend 2m on Da Costa, so EM has spent some cash (although not sure how much we recouped from the likes of Robinson's sale too)

[Mad Squad]

This is a good debate. Why terminate it other than the moderators disagreeing with the opposing side of the debate? Quite right to delete the offensive ones but that’s what you’re there for with respect.

The transfer men have had had mixed fortunes, no doubt about it. But that will happen whether we’re sifting through the bargain basement as it seems we were in January or even if we are spending big as with Cavalho. In my opinion, the more pertinent question ought to be ‘why are we not spending a little more to take us over the line?’

Money doesn’t guarantee success but it certainly helps. This manager has performed admirably and really deserved a lot more from the hierarchy in January. The squad is threadbare in terms of quality. The first team now virtually picks itself and after that, I wince at the names that appear in the event of injuries.

So was it actually the transfer team that let us down in Jan or was it Mr Marinakos?

That's a great post all round Woody. If we're not gonna go all in when we're 3rd & 2pts off the autos, then when will we?

But let's not forget that, as predictably poor as it's worked out so far, we did also spend 2m on Da Costa, so EM has spent some cash (although not sure how much we recouped from the likes of Robinson's sale too)

How as it worked out poor so far? Before todays games hadn't we collected more points in the League since Christmas than anyone else?

So are we going to bash Marinakis now. The bloke has given about 50M to Fawaz, smashed our transfer record and promised more than 100M to redevelope the City Ground. Yes, lets bash him for that   :huh:

[Alf]

This is a good debate. Why terminate it other than the moderators disagreeing with the opposing side of the debate? Quite right to delete the offensive ones but that’s what you’re there for with respect.

The transfer men have had had mixed fortunes, no doubt about it. But that will happen whether we’re sifting through the bargain basement as it seems we were in January or even if we are spending big as with Cavalho. In my opinion, the more pertinent question ought to be ‘why are we not spending a little more to take us over the line?’

Money doesn’t guarantee success but it certainly helps. This manager has performed admirably and really deserved a lot more from the hierarchy in January. The squad is threadbare in terms of quality. The first team now virtually picks itself and after that, I wince at the names that appear in the event of injuries.

So was it actually the transfer team that let us down in Jan or was it Mr Marinakos?

That's a great post all round Woody. If we're not gonna go all in when we're 3rd & 2pts off the autos, then when will we?

But let's not forget that, as predictably poor as it's worked out so far, we did also spend 2m on Da Costa, so EM has spent some cash (although not sure how much we recouped from the likes of Robinson's sale too)

How as it worked out poor so far? Before todays games hadn't we collected more points in the League since Christmas than anyone else?

So are we going to bash Marinakis now. The bloke has given about 50M to Fawaz, smashed our transfer record and promised more than 100M to redevelope the City Ground. Yes, lets bash him for that   :huh:

Eh? What's any of that got to do with Da Costa or his signing? (which is what my post was specifically referring to)

If anything my post was in defense of EM, showing he has spent some cash

[PsychoStanleyStone]

I am more interested in why some people think Pearce would make a better job of recruitment than Modesto and Anigo.

So far I see no evidence.

Does the owner actually trust them to spend money anymore since Carvalho?  

PSS I don't want to pretend anything. I prefer to stick with facts.

What has Carvalho got to do with Modesto and Anigo? Nothing. He was a Mendes signing.

Yes the owner does trust them with money and the owner will only surround himself with people who he knows well and who he trusts which is why Stuart Pearce will never work for Marinakis.

I'm confused, please explain, so there were no other recruitment advisors involved with the signing of Carvalho?  

So you are saying EM dealt directly with an agent Mendes? , sought solely the agents advice, took the agents advice, if they haggled where did Mendes start at £20m? or there was no haggling?  So prior to our recruitment structure EM waded into the transfer market on his own with no other pro Olympiakos/Forest recruitment advisors eg Modesto?

I can sort of accept that AK wasn't consulted much and didn't help AK.  So at this time of Carvalho signing for Forest, basically Mendes was our sole recruitment advisor, obviously his opinion was valued above AK's and you are saying Modesto or Anigo weren't consulted or involved in anyway?

This sort of thing was surely destined to end badly?  I was totally anti AK but wouldn't wish this sort of thing on any manager really.

Big win for Mendes for lose for AK, loss for Forest and a bit of a dent in the big fella's wallet.  In reality, unless Mendes was being paid by EM, EM must of been the buyer as surely it isn't possible that Mendes was the buyer and the seller surely?

The £13m for Carv seems to be a problem as in relatively light financial outlay since and prior, the amount of players pouring in was like a scene out of Dunkirk

[zicorice]

I am not really interested in Jack Hunt to be honest.

I am more interested in why some people think Pearce would make a better job of recruitment than Modesto and Anigo.

So far I see no evidence.

let's pretend successful football clubs are really about making money, signing players who are worth something, ie an assett or developing young players into .. financial assetts 

for most of the last 25 years Nottingham Forest have forgotten that profit, acquiring assetts, developing players into valuable assetts is what brings success, ultimately a combination of a manager/recruitment and an intelligent ambitious owner who reinvests and then some.

who is Nottingham Forests most valuable assett?  A Modesto and Anigo signing?  Does the owner actually trust them to spend money anymore since Carvalho?  

Ironic that potentially, or maybe certainly based on PL demand, Matty Cash, a Stuart Pearce signing in October 2014 is the biggest financial assett at this moment in time.  

Who the f**k is Hutchinson anyway?

PSS I don't want to pretend anything. I prefer to stick with facts.

What has Carvalho got to do with Modesto and Anigo? Nothing. He was a Mendes signing.

Yes the owner does trust them with money and the owner will only surround himself with people who he knows well and who he trusts which is why Stuart Pearce will never work for Marinakis.

Do you honestly think that Matty Cash was a Pearce signing? He was an Academy signing probably down to Gary Brazil and his staff. He joined us when he was 16.

I think Stuart Pearce was there when Matty Cash signed, i think Stuart Pearce spoke to him before, during and after the process

Now the Stuart Pearce character assasination has gone from being an unmitigated disaster, not achieving much and now to being untrustworthy, interesting, any facts to back this one up?

The Stuart Pearce season started really well and was derailed by serious injuries to critical players. Equivalent to losing Grabban, Lolley Watson and Sow long term. Britt, Reidy, Fox, Hunt, Hobbs, Fryatt and Cohen all played when we beat Bournemoth away to go top of the league in August but missed huge chunks of the season, some were never quite the same player again (putting it mildly in some cases).  

The truth is (and I went on record early in the season saying same) to get promotion in this division luck with injuries is crucial. We are getting that this season so far (touches wood) as are DirtyLeeds. Being a good manager can also be helped by a bit of luck. Sabri is fantastic, he is also getting us some overdue luck with injuries. A team with Darlow, Hobbs, Cohen, Britt and Fryatt as the spine and Reid pulling the creative strings with Antonio wide gets promoted all day long back then. A team with Samba, Worrall, Watson, Sow and Grabban down the spine also looks good, with some good width from cash, Ribs etc. All bar Sow have been available almost every game. 

I digress. Stuart Pearce was one of our greatest players of all time, he was an unlucky manager whose results suggest he wasn't a very good manager-but it's never that clear cut is it?

[Jean_claude_killy]

Confused is an understatement!

Whoever was involved in was not Modesto or Anigo because neither was at the Club when Carvalho was signed; and he did not cost 13m

When Warburton was fired, Frank McParland, the Director of Football and de facto Head of Recruitment, went with him; Karanka was using his own contacts to sign players and Mendes was advising; Karanka walked when Modesto was appointed.

The relatively light financial outlay since has nothing to do with the Carvalho signing whatsoever; a quick look at the accounts would have told you that, but I guess that does not sit too well with your agenda.

We have money for transfer fees, its the wages we cannot afford; again, a quick look at the accounts and that would be obvious as well.

Players are turning us down because we no longer pay inflated wages for moderate players; hopefully the days of players like Lansbury and Assombalonga getting new contracts every f*****g season and bleeding the Club dry have gone for good.

Your recollection of the Pearce days is also somewhat hazy and a tad revisionist; apart from Antonio and Brit he also signed a good few players on very good wages who did not give any value for money at all - Fryatt, Tesche Mancienne and Burke.

Crystal Palace were willing to sell Hunt to us but an embargo was placed on us before the deal could be completed.

Do you remember the embargo?

It lasted from December 2014 to May 2016 - which is still the record for an FFP related embargo.

No one is blaming Pearce for getting us into that mess, that was Billy's fault, ably assisted by Fawaz, but Pearce was responsible for handing out the good contracts which made it so difficult to exit the embargo, he takes the blame for that bit.

The people who hold Pearce up as a shining example of how to deal in the transfer market are totally f*****g deluded; attracting players to the Club is pretty easy when you have big wages to hand out; do you seriously think he would do any better under the current constraints?

[Jean_claude_killy]

I am not really interested in Jack Hunt to be honest.

I am more interested in why some people think Pearce would make a better job of recruitment than Modesto and Anigo.

So far I see no evidence.

let's pretend successful football clubs are really about making money, signing players who are worth something, ie an assett or developing young players into .. financial assetts 

for most of the last 25 years Nottingham Forest have forgotten that profit, acquiring assetts, developing players into valuable assetts is what brings success, ultimately a combination of a manager/recruitment and an intelligent ambitious owner who reinvests and then some.

who is Nottingham Forests most valuable assett?  A Modesto and Anigo signing?  Does the owner actually trust them to spend money anymore since Carvalho?  

Ironic that potentially, or maybe certainly based on PL demand, Matty Cash, a Stuart Pearce signing in October 2014 is the biggest financial assett at this moment in time.  

Who the f**k is Hutchinson anyway?

PSS I don't want to pretend anything. I prefer to stick with facts.

What has Carvalho got to do with Modesto and Anigo? Nothing. He was a Mendes signing.

Yes the owner does trust them with money and the owner will only surround himself with people who he knows well and who he trusts which is why Stuart Pearce will never work for Marinakis.

Do you honestly think that Matty Cash was a Pearce signing? He was an Academy signing probably down to Gary Brazil and his staff. He joined us when he was 16.

I think Stuart Pearce was there when Matty Cash signed, i think Stuart Pearce spoke to him before, during and after the process

Now the Stuart Pearce character assasination has gone from being an unmitigated disaster, not achieving much and now to being untrustworthy, interesting, any facts to back this one up?

The Stuart Pearce season started really well and was derailed by serious injuries to critical players. Equivalent to losing Grabban, Lolley Watson and Sow long term. Britt, Reidy, Fox, Hunt, Hobbs, Fryatt and Cohen all played when we beat Bournemoth away to go top of the league in August but missed huge chunks of the season, some were never quite the same player again (putting it mildly in some cases).  

The truth is (and I went on record early in the season saying same) to get promotion in this division luck with injuries is crucial. We are getting that this season so far (touches wood) as are DirtyLeeds. Being a good manager can also be helped by a bit of luck. Sabri is fantastic, he is also getting us some overdue luck with injuries. A team with Darlow, Hobbs, Cohen, Britt and Fryatt as the spine and Reid pulling the creative strings with Antonio wide gets promoted all day long back then. A team with Samba, Worrall, Watson, Sow and Grabban down the spine also looks good, with some good width from cash, Ribs etc. All bar Sow have been available almost every game. 

I digress. Stuart Pearce was one of our greatest players of all time, he was an unlucky manager whose results suggest he wasn't a very good manager-but it's never that clear cut is it?

Anyone who witnessed those early games of the Pearce reign would tell you that it was only a matter of time before the wheels would come off; we went 10 or 12 games undefeated but we rode our luck in a good number of those games.

The injuries did not help but there was more to it than that.

Fantastic player, dreadful manager.

[zicorice]

let's pretend successful football clubs are really about making money, signing players who are worth something, ie an assett or developing young players into .. financial assetts 

for most of the last 25 years Nottingham Forest have forgotten that profit, acquiring assetts, developing players into valuable assetts is what brings success, ultimately a combination of a manager/recruitment and an intelligent ambitious owner who reinvests and then some.

who is Nottingham Forests most valuable assett?  A Modesto and Anigo signing?  Does the owner actually trust them to spend money anymore since Carvalho?  

Ironic that potentially, or maybe certainly based on PL demand, Matty Cash, a Stuart Pearce signing in October 2014 is the biggest financial assett at this moment in time.  

Who the f**k is Hutchinson anyway?

PSS I don't want to pretend anything. I prefer to stick with facts.

What has Carvalho got to do with Modesto and Anigo? Nothing. He was a Mendes signing.

Yes the owner does trust them with money and the owner will only surround himself with people who he knows well and who he trusts which is why Stuart Pearce will never work for Marinakis.

Do you honestly think that Matty Cash was a Pearce signing? He was an Academy signing probably down to Gary Brazil and his staff. He joined us when he was 16.

I think Stuart Pearce was there when Matty Cash signed, i think Stuart Pearce spoke to him before, during and after the process

Now the Stuart Pearce character assasination has gone from being an unmitigated disaster, not achieving much and now to being untrustworthy, interesting, any facts to back this one up?

The Stuart Pearce season started really well and was derailed by serious injuries to critical players. Equivalent to losing Grabban, Lolley Watson and Sow long term. Britt, Reidy, Fox, Hunt, Hobbs, Fryatt and Cohen all played when we beat Bournemoth away to go top of the league in August but missed huge chunks of the season, some were never quite the same player again (putting it mildly in some cases).  

The truth is (and I went on record early in the season saying same) to get promotion in this division luck with injuries is crucial. We are getting that this season so far (touches wood) as are DirtyLeeds. Being a good manager can also be helped by a bit of luck. Sabri is fantastic, he is also getting us some overdue luck with injuries. A team with Darlow, Hobbs, Cohen, Britt and Fryatt as the spine and Reid pulling the creative strings with Antonio wide gets promoted all day long back then. A team with Samba, Worrall, Watson, Sow and Grabban down the spine also looks good, with some good width from cash, Ribs etc. All bar Sow have been available almost every game. 

I digress. Stuart Pearce was one of our greatest players of all time, he was an unlucky manager whose results suggest he wasn't a very good manager-but it's never that clear cut is it?

Anyone who witnessed those early games of the Pearce reign would tell you that it was only a matter of time before the wheels would come off; we went 10 or 12 games undefeated but we rode our luck in a good number of those games.

The injuries did not help but there was more to it than that.

Fantastic player, dreadful manager.

I am "anyone who witnessed those early games" Bournemouth away was the only serious bit of smash and grab, Darlow made some excellent saves. The wheels came off I felt primarily due to injuries and a shallow squad - McCloughlin was on the bench that day for instance (so to was DeVries mind). 

I have zero agenda in this debate. Loved Pearce the player and person, Unconvinced as a manager, but thought he had unbelievable bad luck too. Also think 4 of current starting XI were summer signings so not too bad.

[Sabricadabra]

We never looked like serious promotion contenders in this early games under Pearce. On the whole results were better than performances.

It would be interested to see what standard of players we could have brought in this year if we could have spent a similar amount on wages as we spent when Psycho was manager. I can’t see us overspending to that degree again.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

This is a good debate. Why terminate it other than the moderators disagreeing with the opposing side of the debate? Quite right to delete the offensive ones but that’s what you’re there for with respect.

The transfer men have had had mixed fortunes, no doubt about it. But that will happen whether we’re sifting through the bargain basement as it seems we were in January or even if we are spending big as with Cavalho. In my opinion, the more pertinent question ought to be ‘why are we not spending a little more to take us over the line?’

Money doesn’t guarantee success but it certainly helps. This manager has performed admirably and really deserved a lot more from the hierarchy in January. The squad is threadbare in terms of quality. The first team now virtually picks itself and after that, I wince at the names that appear in the event of injuries.

So was it actually the transfer team that let us down in Jan or was it Mr Marinakos?

That's a great post all round Woody. If we're not gonna go all in when we're 3rd & 2pts off the autos, then when will we?

But let's not forget that, as predictably poor as it's worked out so far, we did also spend 2m on Da Costa, so EM has spent some cash (although not sure how much we recouped from the likes of Robinson's sale too)

How as it worked out poor so far? Before todays games hadn't we collected more points in the League since Christmas than anyone else?

So are we going to bash Marinakis now. The bloke has given about 50M to Fawaz, smashed our transfer record and promised more than 100M to redevelope the City Ground. Yes, lets bash him for that   :huh:

Eh? What's any of that got to do with Da Costa or his signing? (which is what my post was specifically referring to)

If anything my post was in defense of EM, showing he has spent some cash

To be fair to MadSquad your post did stink of sarcasm. That's how I read it anyway and obviously MadSquad felt the same.

[Alf]

This is a good debate. Why terminate it other than the moderators disagreeing with the opposing side of the debate? Quite right to delete the offensive ones but that’s what you’re there for with respect.

The transfer men have had had mixed fortunes, no doubt about it. But that will happen whether we’re sifting through the bargain basement as it seems we were in January or even if we are spending big as with Cavalho. In my opinion, the more pertinent question ought to be ‘why are we not spending a little more to take us over the line?’

Money doesn’t guarantee success but it certainly helps. This manager has performed admirably and really deserved a lot more from the hierarchy in January. The squad is threadbare in terms of quality. The first team now virtually picks itself and after that, I wince at the names that appear in the event of injuries.

So was it actually the transfer team that let us down in Jan or was it Mr Marinakos?

That's a great post all round Woody. If we're not gonna go all in when we're 3rd & 2pts off the autos, then when will we?

But let's not forget that, as predictably poor as it's worked out so far, we did also spend 2m on Da Costa, so EM has spent some cash (although not sure how much we recouped from the likes of Robinson's sale too)

How as it worked out poor so far? Before todays games hadn't we collected more points in the League since Christmas than anyone else?

So are we going to bash Marinakis now. The bloke has given about 50M to Fawaz, smashed our transfer record and promised more than 100M to redevelope the City Ground. Yes, lets bash him for that   :huh:

Eh? What's any of that got to do with Da Costa or his signing? (which is what my post was specifically referring to)

If anything my post was in defense of EM, showing he has spent some cash

To be fair to MadSquad your post did stink of sarcasm. That's how I read it anyway and obviously MadSquad felt the same.

Not being sarcastic in the slightest mate. We spent 25m when we finished 17th, so it's a bit baffling as to why we'd only spend 2m when we sat 3rd & 2pts off the autos IMO

Da Costa appears to have been a very poor way to spend 2m at a crucial time too. He's an injury history, had scored 1 in 14, and - like most imports - has to adapt to the British game. All we've done is spend 2m to add to the expensive sideline like Carvalho & Jenks. I think it was predictable he'd contribute little, and it's proven to be the case.

Had we 17m worth of quality talent added to the squad as opposed to the 17m we have sat doing nothing most weeks in Jenks, Carvalho & Da Costa I think we'd be cementing our place in the autos now.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

That's a great post all round Woody. If we're not gonna go all in when we're 3rd & 2pts off the autos, then when will we?

But let's not forget that, as predictably poor as it's worked out so far, we did also spend 2m on Da Costa, so EM has spent some cash (although not sure how much we recouped from the likes of Robinson's sale too)

How as it worked out poor so far? Before todays games hadn't we collected more points in the League since Christmas than anyone else?

So are we going to bash Marinakis now. The bloke has given about 50M to Fawaz, smashed our transfer record and promised more than 100M to redevelope the City Ground. Yes, lets bash him for that   :huh:

Eh? What's any of that got to do with Da Costa or his signing? (which is what my post was specifically referring to)

If anything my post was in defense of EM, showing he has spent some cash

To be fair to MadSquad your post did stink of sarcasm. That's how I read it anyway and obviously MadSquad felt the same.

Not being sarcastic in the slightest mate. We spent 25m when we finished 17th, so it's a bit baffling as to why we'd only spend 2m when we sat 3rd & 2pts off the autos IMO

Da Costa appears to have been a very poor way to spend 2m at a crucial time too. He's an injury history, had scored 1 in 14, and - like most imports - has to adapt to the British game. All we've done is spend 2m to add to the expensive sideline like Carvalho & Jenks. 

Had we 17m worth of quality talent added to the squad as opposed to the 17m we have sat doing nothing most weeks in Jenks, Carvalho & Da Costa I think we'd be cementing our place in the autos now.

I think you answered your own question there Alf highlighted above.

Plus the manager went on record as saying that he didn't want to 'upset' the squad which had taken us that far at the time. Sabri is happy with his signings and he got what he wanted squad wise. He was in constant contact with Marinakis, Vrentzos, Modesto, Anigo and if the manager wanted more he could have had more but he didn't want more.

The manager is happy and personally I don't really care what you think Alf because you are not the manager.