Would You Trust Recruitment With Summer 2020?

[Strawberry Avenger]

I am surprised that the 3rd option hasn't been discussed a bit more.

After the 4m spent on Jenks & Nuno this past year, not to mention all the wages wasted on loan, I'd strongly consider bringing in someone who knows  and has contacts in the British market like Pearce, and limiting Agnino & Modesto to a few players from their specialized markets, as approved by said overseer such as Pearce.

Modesto himself said he's had to learn to adapt to what the British game requires, and underestimated what it requires. We shouldn't be training these chaps up, we should have someone in charge who knows the British game inside & out.

Pearce is not coming back and you will just have to deal with it; he does not deserve to come back in any capacity.

He was a massive failure as a manager - losing 9 of his last 17 games - in fact he should have been fired before his last game, the very minute he picked McLoughlin at full back.

And his record at signing players was not as great as you are making out; aside from the two obvious ones who we managed to get some money for, what about Laing, Tesche, Burke, Mancienne and Fryatt?

The last four were given very good contracts with Fryatt working out at 200k per appearance and just under 1m per goal - cheap at half the price

Well.  There is no arguing with that.  Nobody likes being hit with that 'hit by bus' of logic.  You make sound points, Jean.

Pearce (nor 'temporary' appointment MoN) doesn't fit the culture of the current hierarchy.  I still think recruitment is a work in progress, though.  But it's got better and is getting better overall.

He (Pearce) did bring in alot of well paid players who Forest got no money for.  (Which has been part of Forest's under performing legacy for almost two decades now that almost got Forest relegated 3 times.)

Wages turnover vs performance on the pitch?  I'd suggest the recruitment process has improved.  The players seem more technical and robust.  Forest sit 5th and have been in the top 6 and pushing the autos sporadically give or take for most of the season.  

So they've earned that trust with signings like Sow, Samba and Rib' and yes, Bong.  (The latter is Championship promotion winning experience to allow an unhappy 'LB' and an under performing LB go for £2.5 million and we get a 'free' in return.)

It's not like we're 9th or outside the relegation zone.  We're just not at the stage off the field to replace the likes of Sow or Samba from the bench.  But we kept Worrall on a new contract.

Prudence.  Recruitment is entirely reflective on where Forest are going.  ie.  Being a 'well run' club.  That doesn't mean you get 'sexy' singings like Fryatt or Hobbs that don't turn out as expected.

You have to look at recent player recruitment and player sales.  Even lesser known players are being turned over for a profit.  Like the keeper that came in, had a couple of games and got sold for a £1million or so.  (I've forgotten his name.)  Wheeling and dealing.  

Or instead of letting an underperforming LB go for nothing in teh Summer we get £1million for him.  I'd call that good business.

Players come in on loan.  Do the business?  May sign them.  If they don't?  Send them back.  I think the recruitment is more balanced and prudent than under Fawaz for example.  And we're holding onto Worrall instead of selling 'just at the moment.'  That doesn't mean we won't turn down £25 million for him in the Summer but it does mean we're trying to keep him in the absence of that fantasy transfer.

Yeah.  Fryatt.  Did Steve Bruce see us coming or what.

SA.

[wassy04]

I am surprised that the 3rd option hasn't been discussed a bit more.

After the 4m spent on Jenks & Nuno this past year, not to mention all the wages wasted on loan, I'd strongly consider bringing in someone who knows  and has contacts in the British market like Pearce, and limiting Agnino & Modesto to a few players from their specialized markets, as approved by said overseer such as Pearce.

Modesto himself said he's had to learn to adapt to what the British game requires, and underestimated what it requires. We shouldn't be training these chaps up, we should have someone in charge who knows the British game inside & out.

By Nuno do you mean Da Costa? You cant possibly judge that signing yet.

Hard to argue with the British element though, it does feel like there were a few players out there that either moved or were on short contracts that we could've moved for. Ryan woods at stoke now Millwall and Lyle Taylor for example.

However demotionis probably the wrong word. Work alongside would be better. I maintain I think we had an excellent summer window

See Scott Hogan has arrived at Birmingham and scored 3 goals in 3 games. IMO that's what we need to be signing in Jan, not someone who needs time or training up to be effective. Callum Robinsons another, hit the ground running at WBA. Whereas so far Da Costa has contributed sweet FA in 3 games, and there's only 14 games left for the season. 

Is he a bad player? Like you say you can't judge that yet. Is he a bad signing for a team going for promotion? If he doesn't start contributing significantly soon, yes, IMO he is. Esp at 2m. We shouldn't be signing future players when the opportunity to go up is here & now. We can do that in the Summer. 

Two great examples regards he British element. Good shouts.

Not even sure he was eligible for the Brum game and we didnt exactly need him for Leeds. I wouldn't be surprised if he starts on Saturday, with Sammy being a doubt

[Sausage Roll]

Why the continual banging on about a need for players to be British?

[wassy04]

Why the continual banging on about a need for players to be British?

To be fair I think it's not about being Brirish, its about having played regularly in the English pyramid

[Sausage Roll]

Apologies Wassy - wasn't aimed at you.

[wassy04]

Apologies Wassy - wasn't aimed at you.

I know dont worry I just think that's what Alf meant too! Apologies if he didnt...

[Salvatore Matrecano]

We have made plenty of dud buys who are British too so that isnt the answer. Adomah is a classic example, good a few years ago, past his best and lost his pace but here on a long contract and presumably high wages.
This is exactly the type of purchase that our recruitment /scouting team should be there for, to analyse a player properly, look out for strengths weaknesses. If they had done their homework properly they would have realised Adomah last season was on the decline even if he did play a lot of games for Villa. What we want is for them to spend money wisely.

[Alf]

Apologies Wassy - wasn't aimed at you.

I know dont worry I just think that's what Alf meant too! Apologies if he didnt...

Thanks Wassy, you are indeed correct.

Also in response to JCK above, it doesn't have to be Pearce himself, just someone who's more savvy about the British leagues.

You wouldn't entrust Johnson to start in the AM for the rest of the season due to his inexperience, you wouldn't entrust Dawson as manager next season if we fail to renew Sab's contract, so why are we entrusting recruitment to people who themselves admit are still learning about this league?

We're in the British league. What's required for it is paramount. That doesn't mean the nationality of players has to be British, it means whoever is signing these players needs to be aware of what's required for success in it. Something which I think a fair amount of signings clearly lack.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Apologies Wassy - wasn't aimed at you.

I know dont worry I just think that's what Alf meant too! Apologies if he didnt...

Thanks Wassy, you are indeed correct.

Also in response to JCK above, it doesn't have to be Pearce himself, just someone who's more savvy about the British leagues.

You wouldn't entrust Johnson to start in the AM for the rest of the season due to his inexperience, you wouldn't entrust Dawson as manager next season if we fail to renew Sab's contract, so why are we entrusting recruitment to people who themselves admit are still learning about this league?

We're in the British league. What's required for it is paramount. That doesn't mean the nationality of players has to be British, it means whoever is signing these players needs to be aware of what's required for success in it. Something which I think a fair amount of signings clearly lack.

Yes.  It doesn't have to be 'Pearce' but to have that 'dimension' to the recruitment team, who have themselves admitted that the Championship has it's own specific requirements.

This season proves they're beginning to grasp that.  But recruitment hasn't 'arrived' yet.  Though Sow, Samba, Rib' and Silva prove they can spot players with potential as well as hang onto Academy players with potential as well as selling ones on to balance the books in the case of Bre' and Appiah.

I think, overall, the 'ship' is heading in the right direction.  It's going to take a bit more time before you could 'definitely' say Forest are top two.  We're close, frustratingly so.  

Being 5th.  If Forest made the same improvement next year as this?  Forest have to be top 2.

Going from near relegation to 9th to 5th (staring down 2nd). We have to give recruitment 'some' credit for that.

SA.

[Alf]

Think that's a good post SA, but my concern is that Jan's window looks to be worse than the Summer, simply because none of these new signings are ready to hit the ground running, and thus not fit for purpose (that purpose being promotion this year).

I also just think we fail to land any real quality with these in charge. Callum Robinson, Grosicki, Hogan - just 3 players who all moved this year for a total of 800k. All 3 who have performed well straight from the off at their destination clubs. We spent over twice that on 1 player in Da Costa.

Some of our Jan signings may come good yet, so now's not the time to decide, but I think the question needs to be asked at the very least, and we should be keeping a close eye on things with a view to the Summer in mind.

[Jean_claude_killy]

Alf, when is it going to sink in that it is not the transfer fees that are the problem, its the wages being demanded by the players and the agents; and we cannot afford them.

We tried to sign Grosicki, matched what WBA offered and what Hull wanted but he chose WBA because they offered him the higher wage.

We have very little option but to look abroad for players as foreign players tend to have more realistic wage demands.

When EM took over this Club wages were running at around 140% of income; that is the car crash of a Club they inherited from Fawaz.

Wages are now running at around 110% of income; the reduction has been impressive but the cold hard facts are that it is not enough.

You can quote transfer fees we have spent over the last three seasons all day long but they do not matter one bit; in fact when you consider that we have displayed a profit of 25m in the transfer market in the first two of those three seasons they become totally irrelevant.

I tell you something else Alf; the very same people who are calling for us to gamble now in the hope we get promotion will be the first to stick the boot in when the next embargo or points deduction arrives in the post.

[ThePromisedLand]

^ good post ^