Our Iberians

[the jock]

I can certainly see where you are coming from zicorice and appreciate it for sure.  its tougher trying to catch up having missed preseason . its vital really for the year ahead and its a shame what happened to him.

looking at his stats he played 78 mins against swansea september 14th. hopefully he will be in full swing coming into the busy xmas period.

Don't hold your breath. He has a lot to do to convince me still.

Me too Sniffer.

[Jean_claude_killy]

He ran the show at Swansea but has done little since.

I am having doubts as to whether he will flourish in the system that Lamouchi is playing; the key attributes required to play in the current side appear alien to Carvalho.

There is no doubt that he is in a very small minority when you assess the creativity in our side; I would imagine that the decision on whether to persist with him cannot be far away.

If Lamouchi decides to drop Carvalho, where does the creative spark come from?

Silva has improved but is not in the same class as Carvalho; he also looks like someone more suited to how we play away from home.

Personally, I would like to see Johnson get an extended run in that position; he might not have some of the outrageous skills that Carvalho possess but he has the potential to develop into a special player.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Normally the poser doesn't pull the bird. It's normally not enough.

[ThePromisedLand]

Silva looked good on Sunday - should be preferred tomorrow.

[zicorice]

I can certainly see where you are coming from zicorice and appreciate it for sure.  its tougher trying to catch up having missed preseason . its vital really for the year ahead and its a shame what happened to him.

looking at his stats he played 78 mins against swansea september 14th. hopefully he will be in full swing coming into the busy xmas period.

Don't hold your breath. He has a lot to do to convince me still.

Me too Sniffer.

I hadn't realised it was just 78 minutes plus Swansea. Ultimately, with teams now deciding to sit back, if Sabri can get Carvs up to speed it can only help us in unlock8ng the door. Completely understand why people are not convinced...Yet! 
I hope I am proved right over time here.

[stirred]

Remain doubtful that we can field both Silva & Carvalho in the same starting X1 - yet.

Would be very worried if we went with that in a home game, let alone an away game. We saw at Blackburn that as a central combo they were two lightweight. 

Both are talented but both in the team together at this stage of their career weakens the side rather than strengthens it

I’d urge a rewatch of the Blackburn match, or at least the period when Silva and Carvalho came on. I don’t subscribe to the idea that they lost the midfield because they were too lightweight. Rather we became uncomposed in defence and went with long ball clearances, bypassing midfield and we know we don’t have hold-the-ball up / in behind options up there, so we merely ceded possession.

In Carvalho in particular, and to a lesser degree Silva, they’re not good tacklers, but they do harry and close down and put in a shift. In injury time against Wigan for example, Wigan broke and we had two players sprint back to our penalty box to dispossess their striker, Carvalho being one and coming away with the ball.

I believe that good passing players like Silva and Carvalho need to have others like them to interact with to flourish. We don’t have great pace in our striker so the ball into space behind the defence to set up a foot race isn’t an effective option. That holds for our wingers too. So we have to work the openings more, and that needs people that can pass and move well and then pick out the right ball.

For me the best line-up I have seen this season was against Brentford, which was arguably the most pleasing performance for me too. We had Watson and Sow to concentrate on protecting the goal and regaining possession and playing simple balls forward, providing a strong base. Yet we had both Silva and Carvalho to give us a better passing game and creative options. We don’t have have the natural width, but Ribeiro can compensate for that from full back. 

Playing Silva and Carvalho is exactly what i want see, but in a side with balance so they can mostly play to their strengths. The line-up against Brentford was the best I can think of.

[Jean_claude_killy]

Normally the poser doesn't pull the bird. It's normally not enough.

Surely having good ball control helps

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Normally the poser doesn't pull the bird. It's normally not enough.

Surely having good ball control helps

:D True!

[Maltared]

Carvalho is obviously very talented but always feel he could do so much More. He dominated Middleborough in a terrific performance  last season but I can remember alot of mediocre performances too. He's not undroppable .

Yeah you’re right, but he certainly isn’t the only one. And no one’s undroppable absolutely no one. 

But I think some of the hatred towards him comes from the transfer fee we paid for him. It’s not his fault we paid slightly over the odds for his services. It’s not our money so don’t worry about it.

Can someone actually post some evidence of that accusation please?

No because there is no evidence.

Hatred towards him is a very strong and inaccurate description of the way some fans view him. Critical is more of an accuracy.

I will admit that I do not see what many others do in him. I do not see why so many start chanting his name when he is warming up. Apart from the odd run in space or the odd decent pass, he brings nothing else to the side. He is a mediocre player with the odd flash of brilliance. For a lot of games, we may as well be playing with 10 men because his contribution is so minimal. He is too lightweight, pulls out of tackles, does not challenge for aerial balls and does not track back if he has lost the ball. It always seems like he is scared of hurting himself when he makes a challenge so does it half-heartedly. Can we really afford to carry a player week in, week out in the hope that he does that moment of brilliance?

I was making the same points about him last season, but was shot down with the excuses, 'he is still adapting to a new style of football', 'He is a young lad in a foreign country, he will need time to adapt', etc etc. He has been at the club for over a year now, those excuses are no longer valid. I don't care what anybody says, Mendez had our pants down when we agreed to sign Carv for the money we paid, much as i hate to say so.

When you compare him to Matty Cash or Joe Worrall, who are the same age (22), you cannot use the excuse he is still a young lad learning the game. Neither Cashy or Wozza are afraid to get stuck in and put in some thunderous challenges to win back the ball. For me, they are worth far more in value than Carv is and they cost us nothing to acquire.

No this isn't a rant against one of our players, like we see on Twatter. It is me giving my honest opinion on what I see in one of our players. I don't wear rose tinted glasses. I sincerely hope he goes on to prove me wrong. I will happily eat humble pie, will hold my hands up on here and admit that I was wrong about him. But at this moment in time, I can't see that happening

I agree with you 100% ... Sow didn't need a year to settle , sand as Bryce ...lot of other young players hit the ground running... Carvalho this year is even worst then last year ...Silva settled in quicker nd I have a feeling that he will end up the preferred number 10. If we sign other players in January, Carvalho will drop even further in the pecking order as the team needs reinforcements further up the pitch...in areas where he should be the master...

[zicorice]

Remain doubtful that we can field both Silva & Carvalho in the same starting X1 - yet.

Would be very worried if we went with that in a home game, let alone an away game. We saw at Blackburn that as a central combo they were two lightweight. 

Both are talented but both in the team together at this stage of their career weakens the side rather than strengthens it

I’d urge a rewatch of the Blackburn match, or at least the period when Silva and Carvalho came on. I don’t subscribe to the idea that they lost the midfield because they were too lightweight. Rather we became uncomposed in defence and went with long ball clearances, bypassing midfield and we know we don’t have hold-the-ball up / in behind options up there, so we merely ceded possession.

In Carvalho in particular, and to a lesser degree Silva, they’re not good tacklers, but they do harry and close down and put in a shift. In injury time against Wigan for example, Wigan broke and we had two players sprint back to our penalty box to dispossess their striker, Carvalho being one and coming away with the ball.

I believe that good passing players like Silva and Carvalho need to have others like them to interact with to flourish. We don’t have great pace in our striker so the ball into space behind the defence to set up a foot race isn’t an effective option. That holds for our wingers too. So we have to work the openings more, and that needs people that can pass and move well and then pick out the right ball.

For me the best line-up I have seen this season was against Brentford, which was arguably the most pleasing performance for me too. We had Watson and Sow to concentrate on protecting the goal and regaining possession and playing simple balls forward, providing a strong base. Yet we had both Silva and Carvalho to give us a better passing game and creative options. We don’t have have the natural width, but Ribeiro can compensate for that from full back. 

Playing Silva and Carvalho is exactly what i want see, but in a side with balance so they can mostly play to their strengths. The line-up against Brentford was the best I can think of.

I agree with this, but that's the conundrum isn't it? We need a bit more consistency from our flair players, which is always tough for various reasons.Brentford was decent, Blackburn & Wigan, not so much. Silva is busy and has good moments, but has a bad habit of giving the ball away in dodgy positions when under very little pressure.

Sometimes we have to tough out games to get the result and having both Carvalho and Silva on pitch can leave us a bit susceptible. That said, having Carvalho, Silva, Lolley, Grabban and Sow on pitch, should in theory cause opposition problems, especially if Cash and Riberio are bombing up from full back...."in theory" being the key words.

[Tricky]

Yeah you’re right, but he certainly isn’t the only one. And no one’s undroppable absolutely no one. 

But I think some of the hatred towards him comes from the transfer fee we paid for him. It’s not his fault we paid slightly over the odds for his services. It’s not our money so don’t worry about it.

Can someone actually post some evidence of that accusation please?

No because there is no evidence.

Hatred towards him is a very strong and inaccurate description of the way some fans view him. Critical is more of an accuracy.

I will admit that I do not see what many others do in him. I do not see why so many start chanting his name when he is warming up. Apart from the odd run in space or the odd decent pass, he brings nothing else to the side. He is a mediocre player with the odd flash of brilliance. For a lot of games, we may as well be playing with 10 men because his contribution is so minimal. He is too lightweight, pulls out of tackles, does not challenge for aerial balls and does not track back if he has lost the ball. It always seems like he is scared of hurting himself when he makes a challenge so does it half-heartedly. Can we really afford to carry a player week in, week out in the hope that he does that moment of brilliance?

I was making the same points about him last season, but was shot down with the excuses, 'he is still adapting to a new style of football', 'He is a young lad in a foreign country, he will need time to adapt', etc etc. He has been at the club for over a year now, those excuses are no longer valid. I don't care what anybody says, Mendez had our pants down when we agreed to sign Carv for the money we paid, much as i hate to say so.

When you compare him to Matty Cash or Joe Worrall, who are the same age (22), you cannot use the excuse he is still a young lad learning the game. Neither Cashy or Wozza are afraid to get stuck in and put in some thunderous challenges to win back the ball. For me, they are worth far more in value than Carv is and they cost us nothing to acquire.

No this isn't a rant against one of our players, like we see on Twatter. It is me giving my honest opinion on what I see in one of our players. I don't wear rose tinted glasses. I sincerely hope he goes on to prove me wrong. I will happily eat humble pie, will hold my hands up on here and admit that I was wrong about him. But at this moment in time, I can't see that happening

I agree with you 100% ... Sow didn't need a year to settle , sand as Bryce ...lot of other young players hit the ground running... Carvalho this year is even worst then last year ...Silva settled in quicker nd I have a feeling that he will end up the preferred number 10. If we sign other players in January, Carvalho will drop even further in the pecking order as the team needs reinforcements further up the pitch...in areas where he should be the master...

This is spot on IMO

[Duncan Mckenzie]

Nothing wrong with constructive criticism. There is some good debate on Carvalho here.

The so called hatred is just the imagination of GreenMan.