Karanka v MON & Keane

[Paplane]

i agree. we should be supporting the manager. hes an intelligent man with a good team around him, give him time. we cant keep chopping and changing.

Some of the reaction on here, on twitter, and on other forums regarding the recent dip in form, and MoN's responsibility for it, has been ridiculous. AK was a hard act to follow but that's not Martin's fault is it?

All this talk about Robinson being dropped for voicing an opinion etc - complete nonsense IMO. Robinson was left out to see if others could perform in midfield without Colback, and if Coback was still an effective option at LB. It was looking at players and systems for next year, ie (assuming Colback returns), do we need to purchase another LB as a back up?

And with regard to not playing Carvalho, I'm as frustrated as the next man to see him sitting on the bench but how do the fans know how he's been going on in training? He may well have been suffering from burn-out and/or a lack of confidence for all we know. I personally trust Mon to make the right call. AK brought Carvalho in and set the team up around him and his talent. If the main man then disappears for whatever reason what does that do to the team? It was interesting that Simon Ireland took the decision to drop Carvalho in his one and only game. I suspect that AK would've liked to have done too but at the time was taking some heat from upstairs in asking for more players at the time and so was prevented from doing so, having persuaded them to shell out £13m for him.

MoN came in with little knowledge of the team and the players. I'd suggest he was a little un-prepared in that regard and that was disappointing but let's give him some credit, he has a wealth of experience to hand in dealing with players (young and old), teams, systems, and club politics.

[Redgirl]

was best performance all season. dont think we saw a karanka performance as good as that?

In all fairness It was the best 90 minute performance I’ve seen since not sure when. It was great to see a team go for it when 1-0 up and not sitting on a lead. A full 90 mins of entertaining football played on the floor like it should be.

Manager certainly got it right on the day credit where credits due.

[ThePromisedLand]

We were good - of course.
But the opposition just didn’t turn up!

[woody]

You know, Marin O’Neill really is a good manager. I think many Forest fans have got carried away with the false high position we got to and now are very unfairly blaming everything on MON. Some comments haven’t just been unfair but downright stupid.

This squad clearly isn’t ready for promotion. New manager bounce didn’t happen because the players already had the hump with Marinakis because of the uncertainty over Karanka. Karanka clearly well liked by the players left a squad unwilling to perform for whoever came in. MON will sort that over the close season and with a few good additions may well produce a squad that IS ready for promotion. Marinakis’s backing of O’Neill is vital to ensure the players understand they must perform. I’d like to think that much of the reason for Cavalho’s 90 minute masterclass yesterday was much to do with O’Neills handling of him. Compare yesterday to what we had been getting from him before. The odd flash of brilliance. We got 90 minutes of endeavour as well as an abundance of top drawer creativity. Yesterday he played for the team and never hid.

I’m sure O’Neill now knows where our weaknesses are and a long list of target players already being spoken to and also a long list players who will or should be leaving.

We’re getting progress now. Mid table or just above compared with years of struggle.

It’s a saying most Forest fans are well familiar with but Rome really wasn’t built in a day. But we have a thoroughbred project manager on it now.

[wassy04]

Any argument that contains the phrase “Rome wasn’t built in a day” is always off to a bad start!

In the same way that there was overreaction to the defeats, let’s not overreact to this win either. Great performance, we should’ve scored 5 or 6 but Boro were dreadful. Yet boro may well finish 6th still. Does that not show that the squad we had was perfectly capable of challenging?

MON has made some mistakes and done some good things but the treatment of carvalho was the sticking point always for me. Sidelining and making an example to fans of our record signing, most talented player and fan favourite was foolish. I’m not having that not playing him helped him this weekend either, lack of match practise never helped someone get better before.

I didn’t like the attitude and I still don’t but if he’s willing to admit his mistake and find a way to build around this kid then maybe he can still win people back. We invested £13m into him, he’s a big asset to the club and should be treated accordingly by the management. If he doesn’t fit your formation find one that does.

I respect his change this week even if it was too late. If he’s willing to build the team around the talented players we’ve got and supplement it with a few new signings then there’s still hope. I don’t want to see the squad taken apart again though. This team is nearly good enough

[Paplane]

Any argument that contains the phrase “Rome wasn’t built in a day” is always off to a bad start!

In the same way that there was overreaction to the defeats, let’s not overreact to this win either. Great performance, we should’ve scored 5 or 6 but Boro were dreadful. Yet boro may well finish 6th still. Does that not show that the squad we had was perfectly capable of challenging?

MON has made some mistakes and done some good things but the treatment of carvalho was the sticking point always for me. Sidelining and making an example to fans of our record signing, most talented player and fan favourite was foolish. I’m not having that not playing him helped him this weekend either, lack of match practise never helped someone get better before.

I didn’t like the attitude and I still don’t but if he’s willing to admit his mistake and find a way to build around this kid then maybe he can still win people back. We invested £13m into him, he’s a big asset to the club and should be treated accordingly by the management. If he doesn’t fit your formation find one that does.

I respect his change this week even if it was too late. If he’s willing to build the team around the talented players we’ve got and supplement it with a few new signings then there’s still hope. I don’t want to see the squad taken apart again though. This team is nearly good enough

I think the thing I find most frustrating is that MON has clearly not watched back many of our games for earlier in the season. If he had've done he would have seen how good Carvalho was at times under AK's formation. He also mentioned once after Grabban returned from injury that he hadn't realised that Grabban could play the lone striker role so well. Why hadn't he realised that? If he'd watched back some of the games then he would've seen that we won many tight games (Sheff Utd H springs to mind) by staying tight at the back and nicking a goal. 

He's either chosen to discard AK's system because Carvalho is burnt out/lacking confidence etc or he's completely missed how effective Carvalho can be in that system. As i say, watching back and looking in detail at a few of our games would have highlighted that.

But, having said all that, we are where we are now and I continue to believe that MoN's experience and ability to challenge players will come through for us.

[wassy04]

Yes I agree with that, it seems like he based all his decisions on training/the last few matches. Grabban/carvalho still haven’t started together. It was clear we were at our best with those two and lolley.

I honestly think he initially thought carvalho didn’t suit the system he wanted and wasn’t strong enough. Then when there was backlash about his non selection he reacted badly and decided to make a point by not playing him, the occasional win kept this strategy going but in the end it’s clearly been detrimental. Hopefully it ends up having a positive effect on the lad and he comes out stronger. I don’t agree with it as a strategy but it may still work out

[Username]

Any argument that contains the phrase “Rome wasn’t built in a day” is always off to a bad start!

In the same way that there was overreaction to the defeats, let’s not overreact to this win either. Great performance, we should’ve scored 5 or 6 but Boro were dreadful. Yet boro may well finish 6th still. Does that not show that the squad we had was perfectly capable of challenging?

MON has made some mistakes and done some good things but the treatment of carvalho was the sticking point always for me. Sidelining and making an example to fans of our record signing, most talented player and fan favourite was foolish. I’m not having that not playing him helped him this weekend either, lack of match practise never helped someone get better before.

I didn’t like the attitude and I still don’t but if he’s willing to admit his mistake and find a way to build around this kid then maybe he can still win people back. We invested £13m into him, he’s a big asset to the club and should be treated accordingly by the management. If he doesn’t fit your formation find one that does.

I respect his change this week even if it was too late. If he’s willing to build the team around the talented players we’ve got and supplement it with a few new signings then there’s still hope. I don’t want to see the squad taken apart again though. This team is nearly good enough

Excellent post.

[Redgirl]

Totally agree Wassy04.

[woody]

How have you arrived at me overreacting? My main point is that O’Neill is a very good manager. 5th place was unsustainable for the squad we have. The rot had stared before O’Neill arrived. Sorry but Cavalho wasn’t worthy of a starting place when MON arrived and one good performance doesn’t mean he’s the finished article. He has to reproduce that form again and again and if he does, then credit to improved performances and involvement would have to be at least partly to MON. BY dropping our record signing MON has demonstrated that he will not tolerate sub standard performances. You may be determined not to hand any credit to MON but his track record more than suggest that he will take us forward and is a cut above almost every manager since the great man himself departed. Making a statement like he should get special treatment because he cost so much is too daft for words. It’s imperative that he understands the need for a consistency and greater involvement. If his last game is truly down to MON’s handling of him then he ought to be banging MON’s door down to thank him.

This squad doesn’t need taking apart, but it does need 3 or 4 quality signings to give us a chance next season.

[stirred]

Any argument that contains the phrase “Rome wasn’t built in a day” is always off to a bad start!

In the same way that there was overreaction to the defeats, let’s not overreact to this win either. Great performance, we should’ve scored 5 or 6 but Boro were dreadful. Yet boro may well finish 6th still. Does that not show that the squad we had was perfectly capable of challenging?

MON has made some mistakes and done some good things but the treatment of carvalho was the sticking point always for me. Sidelining and making an example to fans of our record signing, most talented player and fan favourite was foolish. I’m not having that not playing him helped him this weekend either, lack of match practise never helped someone get better before.

I didn’t like the attitude and I still don’t but if he’s willing to admit his mistake and find a way to build around this kid then maybe he can still win people back. We invested £13m into him, he’s a big asset to the club and should be treated accordingly by the management. If he doesn’t fit your formation find one that does.

I respect his change this week even if it was too late. If he’s willing to build the team around the talented players we’ve got and supplement it with a few new signings then there’s still hope. I don’t want to see the squad taken apart again though. This team is nearly good enough

I think the thing I find most frustrating is that MON has clearly not watched back many of our games for earlier in the season. If he had've done he would have seen how good Carvalho was at times under AK's formation. He also mentioned once after Grabban returned from injury that he hadn't realised that Grabban could play the lone striker role so well. Why hadn't he realised that? If he'd watched back some of the games then he would've seen that we won many tight games (Sheff Utd H springs to mind) by staying tight at the back and nicking a goal. 

He's either chosen to discard AK's system because Carvalho is burnt out/lacking confidence etc or he's completely missed how effective Carvalho can be in that system. As i say, watching back and looking in detail at a few of our games would have highlighted that.

But, having said all that, we are where we are now and I continue to believe that MoN's experience and ability to challenge players will come through for us.

I thought Carvalho wasn’t used properly under AK, it was too defensive for me. Not enough forward options when a team sat back and allowed us possession, and his central midfield partners were too deep in matches when we battled for control of midfield. Such a relief to play a set-up with a more attacking and ball-playing emphasis, I just hope we keep it!

[wassy04]

How have you arrived at me overreacting? My main point is that O’Neill is a very good manager. 5th place was unsustainable for the squad we have. The rot had stared before O’Neill arrived. Sorry but Cavalho wasn’t worthy of a starting place when MON arrived and one good performance doesn’t mean he’s the finished article. He has to reproduce that form again and again and if he does, then credit to improved performances and involvement would have to be at least partly to MON. BY dropping our record signing MON has demonstrated that he will not tolerate sub standard performances. You may be determined not to hand any credit to MON but his track record more than suggest that he will take us forward and is a cut above almost every manager since the great man himself departed. Making a statement like he should get special treatment because he cost so much is too daft for words. It’s imperative that he understands the need for a consistency and greater involvement. If his last game is truly down to MON’s handling of him then he ought to be banging MON’s door down to thank him.

This squad doesn’t need taking apart, but it does need 3 or 4 quality signings to give us a chance next season.

The overreaction is assuming Martin is suddenly a great manager based on one game and that he’ll therefore definitely put together a winning team now. I think we’re marginally below par based on the squad we have, think 8/9th would be about right so not too disappointing really. As I said it’s the handling of this situation with carvalho I didn’t like and his reaction to fans chanting. 

As for the point about him being an asset, that’s how running a successful team/business works. They invested £13m therefore he automatically has a higher value than most players. Due to FFP and just business sense, you need to protect your biggest assets and maximise them. Also though it wasn’t just we spent £13m but he’s clearly talented and the team is weaker without him. You build a team around your best players surely? Mainly though I would imagine the owner will judge his use of his most prized asset, how would you feel if you spent £13m out of your own pocket and then that investment was binned after half a season?