Joao Carvalho

[Strawberry Avenger]

My apologies in advance as I hate making a girl cry, but...

Just been thinking I wonder over the years how many foreign imports (not counting the ones who already had championship experience) we’ve spent money on that haven’t worked out.

Confirmed fatalities include:

Panagiotis Tachtsidis
Gil Dias
Andreas Bouchalakis
Ashkan Dejagah
Stefanos Kapino
Juan Fuentes
Frederik Nielsen
Apostolos Vellios
Thomas Lam
Damien Perquis
Vladimir Stojković
Licá
Nicklas Bendtner
Hildeberto Pereira
Pajtim Kasami
Nicolao Dumitru
João Teixeira
Anel Ahmedhodžić
Kyle Ebecilio
Ryan Mendes
Federico Macheda
Robert Tesche
Roger Riera
Frederik Fisker
Tim Erlandsson
Modou Barrow

That's in 5 years & doesn't include João Carvalho, Diogo Gonçalves, Michael Hefele, Hillal Soudani, Karim Ansarifard or Josef Hefele, all of whom have question marks next to them & could easily end up on the list.

Moral of the story?

Agents aren't our friends, scouts are.

The universal chime bells ring true.

SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Just been thinking I wonder over the years how many foreign imports (not counting the ones who already had championship experience) we’ve spent money on that haven’t worked out.

I bet overall it’s the cost of a a top notch striker, winger and ACM

Scouting has been awful over the years, and looks like certain agents have had our leg up.

I do think though that Carvs career here hasn’t been managed well and it’s looking like he’s just given up, I had hoped when he got his chance he would’ve taken it, even if playing to get a good move elsewhere.

Yes.  I should imagine so.  *looks to Car', Gon' and Dia'.

More than our leg up...a thorough bending over.

SA.

[Alf]

Although it matters little who manages the club if the people up top only give them 6 months of the season to get promoted.

To be fair they've not sacked anyone based on league positions yet, so we have no evidence of impatience in that area yet, outside of a few fan conspiracy theories.

MW left as a victim of the FMP v IV fall out & AK left due to just about everything being wrong, but league results haven't come in to play, yet.

Yeah fair shout. Let's hope MON gets fully back both in terms of time & money.

Btw. You can tell Raymondo Ponte that he's earned a free pint from me, to claim it all he has to do is publicity identify me as Kolley Kibber (nice Notts reference there).

Ha, t'old Ray not say no to any challenge where free ale is the reward lol

[Alf]

My apologies in advance as I hate making a girl cry, but...

Just been thinking I wonder over the years how many foreign imports (not counting the ones who already had championship experience) we’ve spent money on that haven’t worked out.

Confirmed fatalities include:

Panagiotis Tachtsidis
Gil Dias
Andreas Bouchalakis
Ashkan Dejagah
Stefanos Kapino
Juan Fuentes
Frederik Nielsen
Apostolos Vellios
Thomas Lam
Damien Perquis
Vladimir Stojković
Licá
Nicklas Bendtner
Hildeberto Pereira
Pajtim Kasami
Nicolao Dumitru
João Teixeira
Anel Ahmedhodžić
Kyle Ebecilio
Ryan Mendes
Federico Macheda
Robert Tesche
Roger Riera
Frederik Fisker
Tim Erlandsson
Modou Barrow

That's in 5 years & doesn't include João Carvalho, Diogo Gonçalves, Michael Hefele, Hillal Soudani, Karim Ansarifard or Josef Hefele, all of whom have question marks next to them & could easily end up on the list.

Moral of the story?

Agents aren't our friends, scouts are.

Gonna borrow that for LTLF if you don't mind mate? Really highlights how OTT we've gone with these imports.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Amazing how many people slag me and this forum off but they all have accounts on here and are reading everyday just in case they miss something. Hypocrites.

[ThePromisedLand]

It’s called a compliment Sniff - & I’m sure you’ve got broad shoulders.

[Strawberry Avenger]

My apologies in advance as I hate making a girl cry, but...

Just been thinking I wonder over the years how many foreign imports (not counting the ones who already had championship experience) we’ve spent money on that haven’t worked out.

Confirmed fatalities include:

Panagiotis Tachtsidis
Gil Dias
Andreas Bouchalakis
Ashkan Dejagah
Stefanos Kapino
Juan Fuentes
Frederik Nielsen
Apostolos Vellios
Thomas Lam
Damien Perquis
Vladimir Stojković
Licá
Nicklas Bendtner
Hildeberto Pereira
Pajtim Kasami
Nicolao Dumitru
João Teixeira
Anel Ahmedhodžić
Kyle Ebecilio
Ryan Mendes
Federico Macheda
Robert Tesche
Roger Riera
Frederik Fisker
Tim Erlandsson
Modou Barrow

That's in 5 years & doesn't include João Carvalho, Diogo Gonçalves, Michael Hefele, Hillal Soudani, Karim Ansarifard or Josef Hefele, all of whom have question marks next to them & could easily end up on the list.

Moral of the story?

Agents aren't our friends, scouts are.

Gonna borrow that for LTLF if you don't mind mate? Really highlights how OTT we've gone with these imports.

That's one helluva list.

I wonder how much money Forest could have saved if they had actually did scouting..?

SA.

[zicorice]

Good to hear the players are actually being coached though

I've held back on these stats, until the mood became more positive, as I wanted fans behind the club, rather than squabbling over an individual, but our #10 is 8th, in this squad, when it comes to shots per game, behind Yates & Guédioura, amongst others.

A #10 should be top 5 in that stat, & certainly not behind deeper sitting midfielders & he's 9th in passing accuracy, another area he should be top 5.

In terms of actual number of passes he averages 32, which is 12th.

Of course a #10 isn't just about creativity, if you defend from the front, as all teams should, a #10 is also key to keeping the opposition locked in. Look at the game Monday night, Murphy & Yates shut down Huddlestone & because of that 60% of Derby's possession was with their defensive players, in their defensive third of the pitch, effectively neutering them.

Our #10 comes 16th in our squad when it comes to average tackles per game, 22nd when it comes to interceptions (Ryan Yates has already made more in total, in 20 games less), & Carvalho is 18th when it comes to blocking the ball.

He's also 3rd in our squad when it comes to being dispossessed, & 2nd when it comes to losing the ball through bad ball control.

  following the post on Carvalho I felt someone had to challenge this. I respect all opinions, but I also recognise the potential for borderline indoctrination to filter in. For the record, I loved watching Carvalho play, but 100% support MON and the more pragmatic approach required to achieve what we all want. I hope this doesn't sound like a personal attack, it is not meant too, but I like this forum and don't want to see it slide down a slippery slope.
Hand grenade dropped, off to get ready for my train now......

Zico, I've been pondering this debate for the last 24 hours, I like it, NG3 put up some stats and opinions and you have challenged, we could do with more of this although I find this forum extremely informative, as in the information to posts ratio is extremely high compared to lost the plot and others.

Most importantly, despite our appreciation for the quality and depth of analysis NG3 puts in, we all, hope to high heaven, probably including NG3, you are right, because if you are right we are going to see a phenomenal player, I appreciate the argument that Forest produced some the best performances with him in the side earlier in the season.  

Regards the stats, they aren't good, to the contrary quite condemning, but although they are interesting I prefer to bury my head in the sand and ignore them and hope the guys game comes together and 1 or 2 assists or a goal or some skill or effort will do me.  Basically he could influence a game dramatically but the stats over the season won't move much.  It could be a run off the ball that takes the defenders away, or good passes that show as intercepted or failed but the team mate really should of anticipated and been on the front foot.

As you can see, I know diddly, I see very few games, besides Derby and WBA games which I loved, any others were on very poor streams.  I do know we have 33 players, probably the biggest squad in the league and I can't remember who half of them are.  I hope there are a few secret weapons buried in there, maybe Pele, Appiah, Aransiford? or something can be done to get the squad into cohesive lethal combination.  Or just a horrible set of thugs who win ugly, i'll take either.  No reason Carv can't contribute significantly.

The worry I have isn't just adapting to the English championship but for the young Portugese in Nottingham with £20k to spend on fun every week, there are a lot of snares, vices and distractions, however much potential a guy has and however much you spend, you cannot guarantee they will not be tempted and corrupted by the dark side.  That is the thing about Yates and Worrall they were settled in the area and happy to totally focus, even working with less natural ability but more focus and passion maybe?

We have plenty of players who seem totally focussed on the cause, but I don't know if everyone is totally bought in yet, having a too big a squad could possibly be slightly counter productive to a focussed team spirit.  I'm thinking if we do stumble across a secret weapon it will more likely be Pele or Appiah, hopefully both.

I wasn't going to be drawn in to this "debate" again, esp after being called a prick, but you do make a point I was trying to make and you are right there are alot of "informative" posts (some might argue whether there is a balance?) and I opened a can of worms by debating some of the tone of one particular "informative" post. 

However, if a manager doesn't fancy you, your days are numbered. Though, I'm not yet convinced this is the case for Carvalho.  You rightly point out that stats can be used any way you like. I would be more interested in chances created, assists and attempted through balls from my #10. I would also fully expect that my forward players will give the ball away the most. 

Regardless of all that, Carvalho is a 21 year old player, who is class footballer, currently out of form. Prior to his error Saturday, he looked the most likely to get us back into the game. As I previously stated, I support 100% MONs stance and his approach generally. If he chooses to sell,I would respect that, though I hope this isn't the case.

Dowell was terrible the other night against Wednesday and rightly got the hook, but I am sure he will have a fruitful career also.

Final thought: Carvalho did not set the price, his talent did. I know there is a school of thought we could have spent the money more productively, but any big money signing comes with risk. Before Psychos signings, we went years without selling a player we had signed for a profit (excluding academy graduates).

I still believe Carvalho will be worth much more than we signed him for one day, I just hope it is with us....

[Strawberry Avenger]

Final thought: Carvalho did not set the price, his talent did.

As you're someone who has told us you have worked in football I was actually quite surprised to read you say that as you'll know talent can help with a price but it never sets the price, that would be way to over simplistic.

The transfer market is big business, what was it, something like £4 billion last summer?

Through in fees, bonuses & other costs & you're talking serious corporate business.

Whilst your notion is very poetic, I think we both know the fee was set by Benfica, possibly with advice from Mendes.

I still believe Carvalho will be worth much more than we signed him for one day, I just hope it is with us....

Really?

He's 22 this coming weekend. I have this thing with youth players, possibly harsh, possibly unfair, but it's a general yardstick I've used for a life time, so I'm not about to throw it out.

To me in life you begin as a schoolboy, you learn, you absorb, you draw penises on people's backs in chalk, you grow as a person.

When you hit 18 you're to old to be a schoolboy anymore, so if you haven't already, you graduate, you're a man, unless you're a woman of course, in which case you're like a man but without sense, reason & the ability to park a car.

But at 18 are you truly ready or do you need further development?

Options exist, university, college, apprenticeships & loan moves to the lower divisions.

At 21 University is over, you've completed your apprenticeship, you've got the key to the door & it's time to make your way in the world on an equal footing, no longer a protected child, but a man to fend for yourself.

Carvalho isn't that kid anymore, he came here a kid, a stranger in a strange land, but now he's a man who's been here for 9 months.

He's older than Matty Cash, Ryan Yates, Oliver Burke & Ben Brereton & only a few months younger than Joe Worrall & Tyler Walker & they've all had to find their feet in the game too & have all had varying degrees of criticism to deal with & before we get to hung up on the foreign country thing he's also older than Rúben Neves & only slightly younger than Diogo Jota & they managed to settle.

I appreciate this probably sounds cold but when someone tries to paint a thing one way I like to try to provide balance, & facts to counter hype.

Yes, he's still young & certain allowances should be made accordingly, but he's also now a man & due to start delivering on that potential that we have seen fleeting glances of, but the stats show we're not quite on course.

By the way was there a reason for the quotation marks around your use of the word "informative"?

There's quite a few strange little digs in your post, again.

If you have a problem speak up, don't make snide insinuations instead.

I've already asked you once to can the insults & that sort of stuff.

If you have a problem there's a PM function.

The stats, which you seem so afraid of are just stats, you seem to take it as a personal affront when someone presents agenda free data that counters your romantic pipe dreams.

I do like the kid (unless he ever tried a stunt like the u23's again) & I actually hate having to type "negative" things about him, or any other Forest player.

You see Redgirl, who started this thread?

Do you know why she started this thread?

Because she had a dream

Do you think I am not aware that every time I have had to post something "negative" about Carvalho, to keep people accurately informed, that I have also been sticking a big dirty knife in to that dream?

Truth be told I feel crap when I have to make a post like that.

It's why I like posting in the academy thread, I get to post feel good news about young stars for tomorrow, instead of crushing people's dreams today.

That's why I don't appreciate your insults & snide insinuations, because you're hating on the messenger because you don't like the message & I don't appreciate being kicked under such circumstances.

The stats are what they are, both defensively & offensively.

You brushed off the defensively stats as inconsequential, but you've said you've worked in football so you'll know they are far from not & you ask above about the offensive, well, they are OK, but nothing special, Kieron Dowell & Barrie McKay both had better last year & we're a world away from the sort of stats that Antonio was producing here at 23.

You asked about things like key passes, he's 3rd behind Lolley & Osborn in that, as for assists, those stats are here:

https://coyrforestforum.co.uk/showthread.php?tid=445

João Carvalho

Played 2,114 minutes 3 goals 6 assists - 1 goal or assist every 234 minutes

In terms of assists his total is 6, which is adequate, nothing exceptional in this league, but it's 2nd highest after Joe Lolley's 8.

The assists he has created have been for the following players:

João Carvalho - 6

Cash
Grabban x4
Lolley

You'll note that 5 of his 6 assists are for players who are not currently playing.

I actually think that's significant & part of the reason for the poor form before & after the burn out.

I've often made mention of the lack of plan B, under Karanka & the lack of development work done on Carvalho & I think that's reflected in the "loss of form".

Now that was me interpretation stats & that supposition might be wrong. I'm just pointing this out because you previously accused me of presenting an interpretation of facts, when I had merely presented facts so I thought I'd flag up that minor interpretation, so next time you can tell the difference.

This is why I said "Really?" to your assertion, as right not Joao Carvalho is a young player with a lot of talent, but he's also just turning 22 & struggling to get in to a championship team due to a lack of defensive training & a lack of development, that's seen him struggling for an offensive plan b, when certain players are injured, or unavailable.

These things can & should be, & I'm sure are being worked on, in training, but to suggest he's a future megabucks signing, before he can hold down a championship place is like claiming a baby will be the next Usain Bolt, before it's learned to walk.

Ironically, you said earlier that Carvalho didn't set his price, & you're right, he didn't, he is merely a victim of it. Similarly he didn't write the over-hype that he's been burdened with.

He hasn't said he could walk in to a premiership team tomorrow, as some fans have claimed he could & he hasn't said we'll double our money on him, as some fans have claimed we will.

He hasn't written the wild over praising's or exaggerations, that have left people asking "Why?" when he's not first name on the team sheet, or cause them to turn on him, when he does make an error, like he did against Stoke.

And it's those questions of "Why?" that I'm left to answer with cold hard facts. The same cold hard facts that I didn't want to post, because I knew they'd be killing people's dreams.

It's a vicious circle really, isn't it?

Carvalho is a talented young man, with a great deal of potential. We grossly over paid for him & right now that's a burden to him, but hopefully the other night was a one off & he can now knuckle down & try & win a place back in the side, but let's wait until he's achieved that before we ascribing fantastical price tags to him, because if he can't achieve that he'll not be worth much at all.

Personally I'm less convinced today than I was in June last year that he'll even make it in this country.

The twin masks of pathos.   :cool:

An article masquerading as a post.  Had I read that in the NEP, I'd have enjoyed just as much.  :)

All our 'best' players this season (bar Grabban) have come with less exorbitant fees.

Ah, the glimmer of the 'dream' pre-season, when the Portuguese looked like they were going to storm this league.  Dias with a fine solo goal which stunned...and Car' with his deft impression late on vs Oldham...

Forest fans.  We're such romantics.  Cloughy gave us that happy times...and the tragedy.  Can't help believing, I guess...  :/

I blame the British winter... ;)



SA.

[Strawberry Avenger]

"Personally I'm less convinced today than I was in June last year that he'll even make it in this country."


There's always hope, I guess...

(...that perhaps that Martin and Keane can weave some magic with him with a damn good pre-season and 'man-up'ness behind him.)

It's not over until it's over...


SA.

[Alf]

I wasn't going to be drawn in to this "debate" again, esp after being called a p***k, but you do make a point I was trying to make and you are right there are alot of "informative" posts (some might argue whether there is a balance?) and I opened a can of worms by debating some of the tone of one particular "informative" post. 

However, if a manager doesn't fancy you, your days are numbered. Though, I'm not yet convinced this is the case for Carvalho.  You rightly point out that stats can be used any way you like. I would be more interested in chances created, assists and attempted through balls from my #10. I would also fully expect that my forward players will give the ball away the most. 

Regardless of all that, Carvalho is a 21 year old player, who is class footballer, currently out of form. Prior to his error Saturday, he looked the most likely to get us back into the game. As I previously stated, I support 100% MONs stance and his approach generally. If he chooses to sell,I would respect that, though I hope this isn't the case.

Dowell was terrible the other night against Wednesday and rightly got the hook, but I am sure he will have a fruitful career also.

Final thought: Carvalho did not set the price, his talent did. I know there is a school of thought we could have spent the money more productively, but any big money signing comes with risk. Before Psychos signings, we went years without selling a player we had signed for a profit (excluding academy graduates).

I still believe Carvalho will be worth much more than we signed him for one day, I just hope it is with us....

Thing is no midfielder is gonna be worth much more than 13m in the Championship irrespective of talent, because Championship players rarely fetch much above that rate. Occasionally maybe, but they have really have made a mark. Burke scored once every 93 min in the season we sold him, and that only fetch 13m. Carvalho's a million miles away from making Burke's impact, and that'd only get us a "par" price.

We've invested a team-changing amount of money in potential, and at a time where the owners expect us to be cemented in a promotion challenging place by Jan. I hope whoever thought that was a wise decision is no longer at the club.

No manager can afford to have money tied up in a player who may not come good for a year or two yet if the impatients up top only give them 6 months to do it. With what Carvalho cost we could buy Olivera + a winger and have a good chunk of cash to spare for more.

It actually wouldn't surprise me if the board are already trying to offload him to fund next years purchases tbh.

[zicorice]

Final thought: Carvalho did not set the price, his talent did.

As you're someone who has told us you have worked in football I was actually quite surprised to read you say that as you'll know talent can help with a price but it never sets the price, that would be way to over simplistic.

The transfer market is big business, what was it, something like £4 billion last summer?

Through in fees, bonuses & other costs & you're talking serious corporate business.

Whilst your notion is very poetic, I think we both know the fee was set by Benfica, possibly with advice from Mendes.

I still believe Carvalho will be worth much more than we signed him for one day, I just hope it is with us....

Really?

He's 22 this coming weekend. I have this thing with youth players, possibly harsh, possibly unfair, but it's a general yardstick I've used for a life time, so I'm not about to throw it out.

To me in life you begin as a schoolboy, you learn, you absorb, you draw penises on people's backs in chalk, you grow as a person.

When you hit 18 you're to old to be a schoolboy anymore, so if you haven't already, you graduate, you're a man, unless you're a woman of course, in which case you're like a man but without sense, reason & the ability to park a car.

But at 18 are you truly ready or do you need further development?

Options exist, university, college, apprenticeships & loan moves to the lower divisions.

At 21 University is over, you've completed your apprenticeship, you've got the key to the door & it's time to make your way in the world on an equal footing, no longer a protected child, but a man to fend for yourself.

Carvalho isn't that kid anymore, he came here a kid, a stranger in a strange land, but now he's a man who's been here for 9 months.

He's older than Matty Cash, Ryan Yates, Oliver Burke & Ben Brereton & only a few months younger than Joe Worrall & Tyler Walker & they've all had to find their feet in the game too & have all had varying degrees of criticism to deal with & before we get to hung up on the foreign country thing he's also older than Rúben Neves & only slightly younger than Diogo Jota & they managed to settle.

I appreciate this probably sounds cold but when someone tries to paint a thing one way I like to try to provide balance, & facts to counter hype.

Yes, he's still young & certain allowances should be made accordingly, but he's also now a man & due to start delivering on that potential that we have seen fleeting glances of, but the stats show we're not quite on course.

By the way was there a reason for the quotation marks around your use of the word "informative"?

There's quite a few strange little digs in your post, again.

If you have a problem speak up, don't make snide insinuations instead.

I've already asked you once to can the insults & that sort of stuff.

If you have a problem there's a PM function.

The stats, which you seem so afraid of are just stats, you seem to take it as a personal affront when someone presents agenda free data that counters your romantic pipe dreams.

I do like the kid (unless he ever tried a stunt like the u23's again) & I actually hate having to type "negative" things about him, or any other Forest player.

You see Redgirl, who started this thread?

Do you know why she started this thread?

Because she had a dream

Do you think I am not aware that every time I have had to post something "negative" about Carvalho, to keep people accurately informed, that I have also been sticking a big dirty knife in to that dream?

Truth be told I feel crap when I have to make a post like that.

It's why I like posting in the academy thread, I get to post feel good news about young stars for tomorrow, instead of crushing people's dreams today.

That's why I don't appreciate your insults & snide insinuations, because you're hating on the messenger because you don't like the message & I don't appreciate being kicked under such circumstances.

The stats are what they are, both defensively & offensively.

You brushed off the defensively stats as inconsequential, but you've said you've worked in football so you'll know they are far from not & you ask above about the offensive, well, they are OK, but nothing special, Kieron Dowell & Barrie McKay both had better last year & we're a world away from the sort of stats that Antonio was producing here at 23.

You asked about things like key passes, he's 3rd behind Lolley & Osborn in that.

João Carvalho

Played 2,114 minutes 3 goals 6 assists - 1 goal or assist every 234 minutes

In terms of assists his total is 6, which is adequate, nothing exceptional in this league, but it's 2nd highest after Joe Lolley's 8.

The assists he has created have been for the following players:

João Carvalho - 6

Cash
Grabban x4
Lolley

You'll note that 5 of his 6 assists are for players who are not currently playing.

I actually think that's significant & part of the reason for the poor form before & after the burn out.

I've often made mention of the lack of plan B, under Karanka & the lack of development work done on Carvalho & I think that's reflected in the "loss of form".

Now that was me interpretation stats & that supposition might be wrong. I'm just pointing this out because you previously accused me of presenting an interpretation of facts, when I had merely presented facts so I thought I'd flag up that minor interpretation, so next time you can tell the difference.

This is why I said "Really?" to your assertion, as right not Joao Carvalho is a young player with a lot of talent, but he's also just turning 22 & struggling to get in to a championship team due to a lack of defensive training & a lack of development, that's seen him struggling for an offensive plan b, when certain players are injured, or unavailable.

These things can & should be, & I'm sure are being worked on, in training, but to suggest he's a future megabucks signing, before he can hold down a championship place is like claiming a baby will be the next Usain Bolt, before it's learned to walk.

Ironically, you said earlier that Carvalho didn't set his price, & you're right, he didn't, he is merely a victim of it. Similarly he didn't write the over-hype that he's been burdened with.

He hasn't said he could walk in to a premiership team tomorrow, as some fans have claimed he could & he hasn't said we'll double our money on him, as some fans have claimed we will.

He hasn't written the wild over praising's or exaggerations, that have left people asking "Why?" when he's not first name on the team sheet, or cause them to turn on him, when he does make an error, like he did against Stoke.

And it's those questions of "Why?" that I'm left to answer with cold hard facts. The same cold hard facts that I didn't want to post, because I knew they'd be killing people's dreams.

It's a vicious circle really, isn't it?

Carvalho is a talented young man, with a great deal of potential. We grossly over paid for him & right now that's a burden to him, but hopefully the other night was a one off & he can now knuckle down & try & win a place back in the side, but let's wait until he's achieved that before we ascribing fantastical price tags to him, because if he can't achieve that he'll not be worth much at all.

Personally I'm less convinced today than I was in June last year that he'll even make it in this country.

I really hope he does, not least because we spent a fortune on this Portuguese experiment, but so far I've seen nothing to suggest he'll ever be worth our purchase price, let alone realise a profit on it.

Where to start?  Firstly an apology to those who can't speed read or be arsed to read all this thread. 

Ian Wright, David Buust, Ian Woan,  Garry Birtles, Gary Crosby, Mcleary, Big Wes, Jamie Vardy. All late bloomers for a phalanx of reasons. All had impact in the big league. Strange one this, but remember The Stein brothers at Luton? They were basically crap to average, then one of them (Mark?) Suddenly became great in his late 20s, got a big money move and even made England squads. The point being, unless MON chooses to sell, my opinion is that Carvalho will come good with us. I also believe, like a few others his game is better suited at present to Prem football, a bit like Bohinen. I have no evidence for this  I can not pull out lots of stats (by the way, time on pitch can't really be manipulated to not include periods in other positions imo, so I assume Carv is actually above Benny in goals/chances created per mins-for what it matters). Just many years of watching lots of football. My work in football (Burton, Sheep-sorry all, Forest and Norwich) actually taught me that in BCs words, there are an awful lot of know nowts doing badges, licking arse and climbing the pole. For every fantastic person (eg. Nick Marshall, Paul Hart, Rich Williams) there were 2 idiots (obviously not going to name here) only out for themselves. I watched in disbelief  as Tom Huddleston and Lee Holmes were basically written off. Neither have had too bad careers since. I digress.

For me (Though perhaps not for others) Carvalho has shown enough in the first 4 months of the season to be given time to get back on it. May not be this season? At 15 million euros, maybe we ought to have got the full 8 1/2 months out of him? Football is fickle. Form is temporary class is not. I think any regular supporter would agree that in Aug-Nov Carvalho was class. Without doubt his form has dropped (not exactly off a cliff, but certainly a testing hill) and his confidence looks to have taken a dip as a result. Personally, I am looking forward to seeing a young player (inexperienced) regain his form and produce magic like Sheff Weds & Villa games at some point. If he doesn't then it will be another expensive mistake to join the list and all the more annoying to see him blossom elsewhere. NB MON appears to think he has a bit of something too judging by the interview in NEP this evening-if anyone can tease it out of him again, then it is MON.

Not sure what my snide insinuations are specifically, but I didn't call anyone a prick who doesn't agree with my views (you did), also I am not going to PM strangers who I have entered into debate with on a public football forum. I don't have a problem with you, just didn't think your original post was balanced. Having read other postings since or articles as some others have referred to them as, I now realise that you don't like being challenged as you appear to pontificate your view as the only correct angle. So rest assured I won't bother in future.