NFFC Financial Talk

[Jean_claude_killy]

So the ground was pretty much full and will be tonight for take that, not that it goes towards psr how do you agree a price for hiring the ground, obviously TT want a to make money on ticket sales to offset whatever they’ve paid. Are we talking like £1mil for the weekend?

It doesn't work like that.

The music promoter will have paid Forest a fee for the night. They will then make the money from ticket sales and pay the group.

The big attraction for the Club is not only the fee but the additional money they can charge the commissions

[Fumanchew]

So the fee for both nights is also already been factored in and still doesn’t make much of dent? I only said that because it hadn’t been mentioned that it was helping, not that thought it was gonna rake us in 10m+

[Jean_claude_killy]

So the fee for both nights is also already been factored in and still doesn’t make much of dent? I only said that because it hadn’t been mentioned that it was helping, not that thought it was gonna rake us in 10m+

I would guess we charge something in the region of 250k for the ground for the night.

The problem is we are not set up to make money out of the site.

Coventry (or Arena Leisure, to be more precise), for example, have 5k car park spaces which sell out at £10 a go, far more variety when it comes to food and drink, and because they have six or seven concerts a year and other events, they can charge those food and drink commissions far more rental - they also have a resident Hotel and Casino paying rent and an exhibition hall

They comfortably make 30m in non match day revenue throughout the year. - that is way more than we make.

We should be looking at 50m without trying, which is still way behind the 200m that Spurs make.

I doubt the current site is up to it though

[stefanduma]

So the fee for both nights is also already been factored in and still doesn’t make much of dent? I only said that because it hadn’t been mentioned that it was helping, not that thought it was gonna rake us in 10m+

I would guess we charge something in the region of 250k for the ground for the night.

The problem is we are not set up to make money out of the site.

Coventry (or Arena Leisure, to be more precise), for example, have 5k car park spaces which sell out at £10 a go, far more variety when it comes to food and drink, and because they have six or seven concerts a year and other events, they can charge those food and drink commissions far more rental - they also have a resident Hotel and Casino paying rent and an exhibition hall

They comfortably make 30m in non match day revenue throughout the year. - that is way more than we make.

We should be looking at 50m without trying, which is still way behind the 200m that Spurs make.

I doubt the current site is up to it though

I've been to a lot of corporate events in the past but in the Midland never to Forest. Product launches at Trent Bridge Villa Park, even Notts County. One previous company I worked for had season tickets at Man U Chelsea Spurs Villa Brighton and West Brom. When I asked about Forest they told me to buy individual tickets and put them through the business but said it was not suitable to entertain senior customers. Trent Bridge and Test Match not a problem. We even went to the Colwick racecourse. So I agree we need to be generating tens of millions in extras revenues on match days, and non match day events. Or we might as well stay with the also rans.

[Fumanchew]

Someone like take that aren’t gonna tour every year or at football stadiums, I wonder what money we get for U21 friendlies? I don’t know how stadia are selected for England women’s matches, but Newcastle are hosting a euros quali on Friday and Norwich a quali in june. Since last July they’ve played matches at stadium MK, stadium of light, king power, Wembley x2. Without the Wembley matches the average attendance was 32,178 slightly skewed by the stadium of light but shows the city ground could be filled if need be for a women’s international.

Could we talk to DHP about hosting a festival like splendour at the city ground in the future? They are the tender for splendour for the next 3 years after this summer and another promoted swooped in to get razorlight there this summer, so who knows what the relationship with they city council and DHP is like now

[Salvatore Matrecano]

So the fee for both nights is also already been factored in and still doesn’t make much of dent? I only said that because it hadn’t been mentioned that it was helping, not that thought it was gonna rake us in 10m+

I would guess we charge something in the region of 250k for the ground for the night.

The problem is we are not set up to make money out of the site.

Coventry (or Arena Leisure, to be more precise), for example, have 5k car park spaces which sell out at £10 a go, far more variety when it comes to food and drink, and because they have six or seven concerts a year and other events, they can charge those food and drink commissions far more rental - they also have a resident Hotel and Casino paying rent and an exhibition hall

They comfortably make 30m in non match day revenue throughout the year. - that is way more than we make.

We should be looking at 50m without trying, which is still way behind the 200m that Spurs make.

I doubt the current site is up to it though

No idea where you are getting the above figures from but Im pretty sure they are incorrect.

Im using Swiss Ramble as a source, the example you use, Coventry they have commercial revenue as only £4.2m in 2023. The entire turnover for the club was only £20m. By the way the “Coventry Building Society Arena” is a shit place to watch football.

Forests commercial revenue in 23 was £18.9m which was well up on our previous year of £9.3m which shows what the PL does.

A better local comparison would be Leicester. They got £44m commercial income. Great, but £32m of that was sponsorship and advertising. Forest scored a mere £7m for that, no shirt sponsor not too clever. Leicester only £12m revenue for other income including using the stadium

I think its fair to say we could do far far better than we currently do on this regard, I posted a while back that I reckon Ive been to around 40 different sports grounds for various corporate events down the years but never once Forest which greatly irks me. But would we get a game changing amount of money by a new ground particularly if it was out of town? I doubt it very much. We could definitely increase by a modest amount simply by developing the PT stand, We aren’t getting close to £50m more though whatever we do.

Ive posted before Im not convinced by our chairmans motives and I remain of that view.

[Jean_claude_killy]

That is because Mike Ashley now owns the ground and the Football Club are merely tenants.

[Jean_claude_killy]

We could do better on sponsorship, there is no question of that, but a new ground would be a massive game changer.

19 home games a season is nowhere near enough for making the money we should be looking at.

You need at the very least double that amount, attracting other Sports to hold games and finals there and more music concerts.

You need conference facilities and other anchor tenants like a hotel.

You need activity 365 days a year, something to match EMs ambition

[Salvatore Matrecano]

We could do better on sponsorship, there is no question of that, but a new ground would be a massive game changer.

19 home games a season is nowhere near enough for making the money we should be looking at.

You need at the very least double that amount, attracting other Sports to hold games and finals there and more music concerts.

You need conference facilities and other anchor tenants like a hotel.

You need activity 365 days a year, something to match EMs ambition

I get the argument and I realise you are speaking logically and dispassionately which is fine. A new complex would increase turnover and the argument that to use any venue for only 19 days a year is commercial madness. I voted on the fence myself in the recent poll on here.

I will be honest, I don’t trust our current chairman and I didn’t trust our previous one either. Carteldge has blatantly lied about the council and he has a huge conflict of interest. That is why I still think we are being sold snake oil.

By the way if Ashley is raking in the money from Coventry and not the football club then whats the point? By that logic we build a hotel and its run by someone else, Forest don’t get the revenue. It defeats the object.

[Jean_claude_killy]

We could do better on sponsorship, there is no question of that, but a new ground would be a massive game changer.

19 home games a season is nowhere near enough for making the money we should be looking at.

You need at the very least double that amount, attracting other Sports to hold games and finals there and more music concerts.

You need conference facilities and other anchor tenants like a hotel.

You need activity 365 days a year, something to match EMs ambition

I get the argument and I realise you are speaking logically and dispassionately which is fine. A new complex would increase turnover and the argument that to use any venue for only 19 days a year is commercial madness. I voted on the fence myself in the recent poll on here.

I will be honest, I don’t trust our current chairman and I didn’t trust our previous one either. Carteldge has blatantly lied about the council and he has a huge conflict of interest. That is why I still think we are being sold snake oil.

By the way if Ashley is raking in the money from Coventry and not the football club then whats the point? By that logic we build a hotel and its run by someone else, Forest don’t get the revenue. It defeats the object.

When the CBS, formerly the Ricoh, was built, it was a three way partnership between the Football Club, a Local Charity and Coventry City Council.

The Football Club had financial difficulties and sold their stake back to the other two; along came The Wasps, who made an offer for the Stadium; Wasps took out a ten year Bond to pay for the Stadium only to end up going under.

The Football Club could not afford to buy the Ground so along came Ashley who purchased it.

The rumours at the time was that it made no sense for Ashley to own the Ground and not the Football Club; well it made perfect sense to Ashley; he now owns the money making side of things - and they make shed loads

[Jean_claude_killy]

And you miss the point with the Hotel, which was just an example.

The Football Club are not in the Hotel business, so why would they attempt to run one, or any other business for that matter.

The Hotel, and all of the other Tenants, pay rent to the owners of the Stadium - that is guaranteed income.

Concert promoters and any other promoter who uses the stadium on an ad hoc basis pay a fee.

The catering, which includes drink, is a commission - Commissions pay a rate commensurate with the activity at the Stadium - the more that happens the more they pay.

Car parking is money for nothing.

I suppose all of that could be put together on adjacent sites around our current home, but it looks like an expensive way of going about things to me.

I'm in the move camp.

[McDurban]

And you miss the point with the Hotel, which was just an example.

The Football Club are not in the Hotel business, so why would they attempt to run one, or any other business for that matter.

The Hotel, and all of the other Tenants, pay rent to the owners of the Stadium - that is guaranteed income.

Concert promoters and any other promoter who uses the stadium on an ad hoc basis pay a fee.

The catering, which includes drink, is a commission - Commissions pay a rate commensurate with the activity at the Stadium - the more that happens the more they pay.

Car parking is money for nothing.

I suppose all of that could be put together on adjacent sites around our current home, but it looks like an expensive way of going about things to me.

I'm in the move camp.

They could still own the hotel, it's management is outsourced to a hotel group, like Marriot or Hilton for example.