Crap Referees

[Paplane]

Culture may be rotten. Decisions may have gone against us. But fear this has all become a big distraction to our poor performances on the pitch.

And that is what is really frustrating me. How has the sense of injustice not motivated this group to play with real fire in their bellies?

All the other sides - palace, Brentford, Everton - who were down with us scrapping just a couple weeks away have pulled away. That second half against Everton we barely created anything; against an out of form spurs side, we created very little second half. After Wolves equalised, very little, crystal Palace the same.

This inability to create is not var. This dropping of heads is not a ref thing. We lack leadership on the pitch or desire.

Ultimately we have three winnable games to finish this season but if the players are going to feel sorry for themselves after this last week then we've no hope. Before that we've man city. If they cannot put in a blood,  sweat and tears performance against city then we've no hope.

Control what you can control - var and refs are not one and ultimately I fear it is now just an excuse for abject performances

Very easy to say but if we get the handball at everton we're in that game massivly and the passive performance doesnt then follow. Confidence is low, thats clear, but would it be so low if we were chugging along in 12th or 13th place, which is where we'd be if just a couple of the results lost to var had gone our way? I doubt it.

[ToryTom]

Culture may be rotten. Decisions may have gone against us. But fear this has all become a big distraction to our poor performances on the pitch.

And that is what is really frustrating me. How has the sense of injustice not motivated this group to play with real fire in their bellies?

All the other sides - palace, Brentford, Everton - who were down with us scrapping just a couple weeks away have pulled away. That second half against Everton we barely created anything; against an out of form spurs side, we created very little second half. After Wolves equalised, very little, crystal Palace the same.

This inability to create is not var. This dropping of heads is not a ref thing. We lack leadership on the pitch or desire.

Ultimately we have three winnable games to finish this season but if the players are going to feel sorry for themselves after this last week then we've no hope. Before that we've man city. If they cannot put in a blood,  sweat and tears performance against city then we've no hope.

Control what you can control - var and refs are not one and ultimately I fear it is now just an excuse for abject performances

spot on

[Plymouth red]

Culture may be rotten. Decisions may have gone against us. But fear this has all become a big distraction to our poor performances on the pitch.

And that is what is really frustrating me. How has the sense of injustice not motivated this group to play with real fire in their bellies?

All the other sides - palace, Brentford, Everton - who were down with us scrapping just a couple weeks away have pulled away. That second half against Everton we barely created anything; against an out of form spurs side, we created very little second half. After Wolves equalised, very little, crystal Palace the same.

This inability to create is not var. This dropping of heads is not a ref thing. We lack leadership on the pitch or desire.

Ultimately we have three winnable games to finish this season but if the players are going to feel sorry for themselves after this last week then we've no hope. Before that we've man city. If they cannot put in a blood,  sweat and tears performance against city then we've no hope.

Control what you can control - var and refs are not one and ultimately I fear it is now just an excuse for abject performances

Very easy to say but if we get the handball at everton we're in that game massivly and the passive performance doesnt then follow. Confidence is low, thats clear, but would it be so low if we were chugging along in 12th or 13th place, which is where we'd be if just a couple of the results lost to var had gone our way? I doubt it.

Sure... but it hasn't and that won't change. Problem is there have been enough games where var hasn't fecked us over that we just were poor in - particularly at set pieces. The reality is that even if var had given us a penalty, with our ability to defend set pieces and... Well just defend, how can we be certain we would have gone on to win. Our ability to hold onto a lead this season has been woeful. We are crying over spilt milk and saying we would have won if such and such had gone our way. Based on record this season, I feel those claims are dubious at best.

Likewise, if there is a sense of injustice, that should spur you on. Who on that pitch on Sunday would you have said was a leader - who could have rallied the players and made them more determined. We created next to nothing second half despite it being a must not lose game.

[Paplane]

Culture may be rotten. Decisions may have gone against us. But fear this has all become a big distraction to our poor performances on the pitch.

And that is what is really frustrating me. How has the sense of injustice not motivated this group to play with real fire in their bellies?

All the other sides - palace, Brentford, Everton - who were down with us scrapping just a couple weeks away have pulled away. That second half against Everton we barely created anything; against an out of form spurs side, we created very little second half. After Wolves equalised, very little, crystal Palace the same.

This inability to create is not var. This dropping of heads is not a ref thing. We lack leadership on the pitch or desire.

Ultimately we have three winnable games to finish this season but if the players are going to feel sorry for themselves after this last week then we've no hope. Before that we've man city. If they cannot put in a blood,  sweat and tears performance against city then we've no hope.

Control what you can control - var and refs are not one and ultimately I fear it is now just an excuse for abject performances

Very easy to say but if we get the handball at everton we're in that game massivly and the passive performance doesnt then follow. Confidence is low, thats clear, but would it be so low if we were chugging along in 12th or 13th place, which is where we'd be if just a couple of the results lost to var had gone our way? I doubt it.

Sure... but it hasn't and that won't change. Problem is there have been enough games where var hasn't fecked us over that we just were poor in - particularly at set pieces. The reality is that even if var had given us a penalty, with our ability to defend set pieces and... Well just defend, how can we be certain we would have gone on to win. Our ability to hold onto a lead this season has been woeful. We are crying over spilt milk and saying we would have won if such and such had gone our way. Based on record this season, I feel those claims are dubious at best.

Likewise, if there is a sense of injustice, that should spur you on. Who on that pitch on Sunday would you have said was a leader - who could have rallied the players and made them more determined. We created next to nothing second half despite it being a must not lose game.

Yep, fair points, but im pretty sure wed have at least 3 more points than what we have. Add that to the 4 lost for psr and we're cruising and playing without pressure.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Culture may be rotten. Decisions may have gone against us. But fear this has all become a big distraction to our poor performances on the pitch.

And that is what is really frustrating me. How has the sense of injustice not motivated this group to play with real fire in their bellies?

All the other sides - palace, Brentford, Everton - who were down with us scrapping just a couple weeks away have pulled away. That second half against Everton we barely created anything; against an out of form spurs side, we created very little second half. After Wolves equalised, very little, crystal Palace the same.

This inability to create is not var. This dropping of heads is not a ref thing. We lack leadership on the pitch or desire.

Ultimately we have three winnable games to finish this season but if the players are going to feel sorry for themselves after this last week then we've no hope. Before that we've man city. If they cannot put in a blood,  sweat and tears performance against city then we've no hope.

Control what you can control - var and refs are not one and ultimately I fear it is now just an excuse for abject performances

Nobody is denying any of that though are they? ^^

People shouldn't be denying the parts of VAR and refs either.

It doesn't have to be one or the other.

Players, coaches (past and present), owner, VAR and refs have all played a part in us being where we currently find ourselves.

No need to try and separate them it's a collective thing.

[Trailer Park Tom]

Changing from Coopers low block is like Brexit. Nobody wants to admit that it's f****d us because it makes people wrong. 

Burnley at home was the seasons turning point. Yes we've been shafted by refs but for some deranged reason we prioritised playing style over safely. We had a winning formula and threw it out the window.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Changing from Coopers low block is like Brexit. Nobody wants to admit that it's f****d us because it makes people wrong. 

Burnley at home was the seasons turning point. Yes we've been shafted by refs but for some deranged reason we prioritised playing style over safely. We had a winning formula and threw it out the window.

I will ask you again. How was Burnley at home the turning point?

What winning formula? 

Before we played Burnley we had lost to Arsenal, Manchester United and Burnley in the Cup.

Hardly a winning formula.

[Trailer Park Tom]

Changing from Coopers low block is like Brexit. Nobody wants to admit that it's f****d us because it makes people wrong. 

Burnley at home was the seasons turning point. Yes we've been shafted by refs but for some deranged reason we prioritised playing style over safely. We had a winning formula and threw it out the window.

I will ask you again. How was Burnley at home the turning point?

What winning formula? 

Before we played Burnley we had lost to Arsenal, Manchester United and Burnley in the Cup.

Hardly a winning formula.

We had won 50% of our league games because you are missing out Chelsea away. This was with a similar side as we finished the previous season with a high win percentage. We signed and mad influx of players at the end of the window and changed style.

You look at Burnley, Brentford and Luton at home learning that woefully timid in possession style we attempted and that set the foundation for everything that followed.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Agree with that Sniffer that many factors are responsible.
Lets say PSR deduction 4 points, VAR/ref decisions 4 points, questionable tactics from managers 4 points, players making basic mistakes 4 points.

You could argue that we have given away more than that in some of those areas but Im being generous for the sake of argument, we would be sitting on 42 points in 14th place. That sounds about right to me. Also think thats where the club can rock the boat with regard to rules a bit more safely from a position of strength.

[Trailer Park Tom]

I've made my view clear but I'm also very aware of the types of goals we have conceded and how not addressing set pieces ect has cost us.

This seasons post mortem will be quite lengthy. 

I might take some stick for my view but it's fairly balanced.

[BomberBowyer]

I saw last night the Mail reporting Webb is to hold peace talks with Forest this week. Apparently his effort to end this amicably. The meeting will either be with EM or Syronas and Nuno depending on timing and training schedules.

Well I thought the FA and PGMOL were going to throw the book at us and make an example of us for bringing the game into disrepute ?

[Salvatore Matrecano]

I saw last night the Mail reporting Webb is to hold peace talks with Forest this week. Apparently his effort to end this amicably. The meeting will either be with EM or Syronas and Nuno depending on timing and training schedules.

Well I thought the FA and PGMOL were going to throw the book at us and make an example of us for bringing the game into disrepute ?

Good on him if so, nobody is going to be a winner if everyone fights fire with fire. The only way to change things ultimately is for referee standards to improve and we cant change that overnight.