Jonjo Shelvey - Thanks for the Memories

[wassy04]

The thing is though that Shelvey is a very good player that cannot be doubted.

It didn't work out for him following a spat with our manager at the time after he was dropped following the Villa game.

He was not the only one involved in spats with our manager because Worrall was another and then there is the refusal to play good players like Bade (now linked with Spurs for 50M), Montiel, Santos (now linked with Spurs, Barcelona and Newcastle) etc etc.

Some truly bizarre decisions and the point here is that it's not always the fault of the recruitment.

Shelvey was terrible for us, his error vs Villa cost us the game and we massively improved after he was banished from the squad, clearly a bad egg. Plus, if the rumours were remotely true, Cooper had no choice anyway.

Worrall cost us the Luton game, made a number of mistakes and most wanted him out of the team regardless.

Who are you dropping to get Santos in? Why would we prioritise playing a kid from Chelsea over one of our own similarly talented players? 

These weren't bizarre decisions at all, they were perfectly reasonable based on what happened.

[Paplane]

The thing is though that Shelvey is a very good player that cannot be doubted.

It didn't work out for him following a spat with our manager at the time after he was dropped following the Villa game.

He was not the only one involved in spats with our manager because Worrall was another and then there is the refusal to play good players like Bade (now linked with Spurs for 50M), Montiel, Santos (now linked with Spurs, Barcelona and Newcastle) etc etc.

Some truly bizarre decisions and the point here is that it's not always the fault of the recruitment.

Shelvey was terrible for us, his error vs Villa cost us the game and we massively improved after he was banished from the squad, clearly a bad egg. Plus, if the rumours were remotely true, Cooper had no choice anyway.

Worrall cost us the Luton game, made a number of mistakes and most wanted him out of the team regardless.

Who are you dropping to get Santos in? Why would we prioritise playing a kid from Chelsea over one of our own similarly talented players? 

These weren't bizarre decisions at all, they were perfectly reasonable based on what happened.

They MAY have been reasonable decisions of they all happened in isolation. But the fact is that there are multiple examples of players being ostracised in the last year. Being able to assess Cooper's work objectively, I have to say there's a pattern of big ego, or big price tag players coming in and not being assimilated properly.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

The thing is though that Shelvey is a very good player that cannot be doubted.

It didn't work out for him following a spat with our manager at the time after he was dropped following the Villa game.

He was not the only one involved in spats with our manager because Worrall was another and then there is the refusal to play good players like Bade (now linked with Spurs for 50M), Montiel, Santos (now linked with Spurs, Barcelona and Newcastle) etc etc.

Some truly bizarre decisions and the point here is that it's not always the fault of the recruitment.

Shelvey was terrible for us, his error vs Villa cost us the game and we massively improved after he was banished from the squad, clearly a bad egg. Plus, if the rumours were remotely true, Cooper had no choice anyway.

Worrall cost us the Luton game, made a number of mistakes and most wanted him out of the team regardless.

Who are you dropping to get Santos in? Why would we prioritise playing a kid from Chelsea over one of our own similarly talented players? 

These weren't bizarre decisions at all, they were perfectly reasonable based on what happened.

They are all perfectly good players who were good enough to play for us.

Steve Cook getting picked over Bade, how is that not bizarre?

Montiel not getting in our matchday squad but was getting in Argentina's, how is that not bizarre?

You are right though about Shelvey he was terrible for us but he's had a great career and he's a good player which is why the manager signed him in the first place only to fall out with him a few weeks later and kick him out the squad.

[Malcolm X]

The thing is though that Shelvey is a very good player that cannot be doubted.

It didn't work out for him following a spat with our manager at the time after he was dropped following the Villa game.

He was not the only one involved in spats with our manager because Worrall was another and then there is the refusal to play good players like Bade (now linked with Spurs for 50M), Montiel, Santos (now linked with Spurs, Barcelona and Newcastle) etc etc.

Some truly bizarre decisions and the point here is that it's not always the fault of the recruitment.

I don't disagree that there have been some bizarre selection decisions seemingly made out of pure stubbornness but there was an article recently (possibly in the Athletic) that said Shelvey was a Cooper choice, along with Wood. 

Whoever was the actual person who wanted Shelvey I just don't understand the logic behind it and didn't at the time. He has qualities on the ball but has zero mobility just as we were trying to scrape points together by playing a low-block counter attacking game, a tactic that requires speed and athleticism in midfield in particular.

[wassy04]

The thing is though that Shelvey is a very good player that cannot be doubted.

It didn't work out for him following a spat with our manager at the time after he was dropped following the Villa game.

He was not the only one involved in spats with our manager because Worrall was another and then there is the refusal to play good players like Bade (now linked with Spurs for 50M), Montiel, Santos (now linked with Spurs, Barcelona and Newcastle) etc etc.

Some truly bizarre decisions and the point here is that it's not always the fault of the recruitment.

Shelvey was terrible for us, his error vs Villa cost us the game and we massively improved after he was banished from the squad, clearly a bad egg. Plus, if the rumours were remotely true, Cooper had no choice anyway.

Worrall cost us the Luton game, made a number of mistakes and most wanted him out of the team regardless.

Who are you dropping to get Santos in? Why would we prioritise playing a kid from Chelsea over one of our own similarly talented players? 

These weren't bizarre decisions at all, they were perfectly reasonable based on what happened.

They are all perfectly good players who were good enough to play for us.

Steve Cook getting picked over Bade, how is that not bizarre?

Montiel not getting in our matchday squad but was getting in Argentina's, how is that not bizarre?

You are right though about Shelvey he was terrible for us but he's had a great career and he's a good player which is why the manager signed him in the first place only to fall out with him a few weeks later and kick him out the squad.

Shelvey conclusively proved he was not good enough then acted like a dick when he got dropped, not really sure why you're trying so hard to defend him? That's bizarre if anything. He was a poor signing that by all accounts, Cooper was heavily involved in anyway.

Steve Cook had been in the team the previous year and had way more experience in the pren than a kid who'd barely played. Premier league is hard, it's difficult to settle no doubt about that. For whatever reason it didn't work out for Bade, not playing someone because you don't think they're good enough is not a pattern of falling out with players.

Montiel was awful in his first few games, not sure what happened after that but I can make some guesses. 

It's a fair criticism to suggest Cooper at times struggled to integrate certain players and generally favoured ones he trusted more despite potentially having slightly less ability. However, firstly literally every manager does that and secondly whilst certain players may be more limited they are also more consistent.

I do not agree there was a pattern of falling out with players. 

Also, look at the amount of players that were constantly there to work with. Do you think it's easy to keep them all happy whilst also fighting for your job every week? 

If Nuno manages to get a smaller squad it would make that job a lot easier.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Steve was constantly demanding more and more players every window so he must shoulder some responsibility.

Some good players were recruited for this football club and were just ignored and cold shouldered.

That might be acceptable to you but for me and many others it's not.

Back to Shelvey his record speaks for itself over 200 games in the PL, 6 England caps.

[wassy04]

Steve was constantly demanding more and more players every window so he must shoulder some responsibility.

Some good players were recruited for this football club and were just ignored and cold shouldered.

That might be acceptable to you but for me and many others it's not.

Back to Shelvey his record speaks for itself over 200 games in the PL, 6 England caps.

Yeah 30 odd good players were recruited and he could only play 11. There's a lot of players that were unable to play.

Back to Shelvey, you're right his record speaks for itself. He was awful for Forest, repeatedly made careless mistakes and then refused to be on the bench when he got dropped. Indefensible.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Steve was constantly demanding more and more players every window so he must shoulder some responsibility.

Some good players were recruited for this football club and were just ignored and cold shouldered.

That might be acceptable to you but for me and many others it's not.

Back to Shelvey his record speaks for itself over 200 games in the PL, 6 England caps.

Yeah 30 odd good players were recruited and he could only play 11. There's a lot of players that were unable to play.

Back to Shelvey, you're right his record speaks for itself. He was awful for Forest, repeatedly made careless mistakes and then refused to be on the bench when he got dropped. Indefensible.

Wassy you just want to blame recruitment for everything when there is clearly a much bigger picture to be painted.

I am the first to admit that recruitment was/is not perfect like at every club but why can't you admit that Cooper made some very odd decisions?

[Paplane]

Steve was constantly demanding more and more players every window so he must shoulder some responsibility.

Some good players were recruited for this football club and were just ignored and cold shouldered.

That might be acceptable to you but for me and many others it's not.

Back to Shelvey his record speaks for itself over 200 games in the PL, 6 England caps.

Yeah 30 odd good players were recruited and he could only play 11. There's a lot of players that were unable to play.

Back to Shelvey, you're right his record speaks for itself. He was awful for Forest, repeatedly made careless mistakes and then refused to be on the bench when he got dropped. Indefensible.

Wassy you just want to blame recruitment for everything when there is clearly a much bigger picture to be painted.

I am the first to admit that recruitment was/is not perfect like at every club but why can't you admit that Cooper made some very odd decisions?

A lot of denial going on Sniff. Not just Wassy (I admire his unflinching defence of the side), but others (not just some who post on here) are so mesmerised by Cooper's reign that they just cant see what was happening in front of their eyes. I liked Cooper a lot but I can see that for half of last season and all of this season, results and decisions made were disasterous.

[wassy04]

Steve was constantly demanding more and more players every window so he must shoulder some responsibility.

Some good players were recruited for this football club and were just ignored and cold shouldered.

That might be acceptable to you but for me and many others it's not.

Back to Shelvey his record speaks for itself over 200 games in the PL, 6 England caps.

Yeah 30 odd good players were recruited and he could only play 11. There's a lot of players that were unable to play.

Back to Shelvey, you're right his record speaks for itself. He was awful for Forest, repeatedly made careless mistakes and then refused to be on the bench when he got dropped. Indefensible.

Wassy you just want to blame recruitment for everything when there is clearly a much bigger picture to be painted.

I am the first to admit that recruitment was/is not perfect like at every club but why can't you admit that Cooper made some very odd decisions?

A lot of denial going on Sniff. Not just Wassy (I admire his unflinching defence of the side), but others (not just some who post on here) are so mesmerised by Cooper's reign that they just cant see what was happening in front of their eyes. I liked Cooper a lot but I can see that for half of last season and all of this season, results and decisions made were disasterous.

I happy to criticise Cooper, I've been consistent that I thought we never should've abandoned wingbacks (in the fact that's the only odd decision) and that MGW should've been playing centrally.

Results weren't disastrous though, we were probably the 19th best team in the league and finished higher than that so actually I'd say results were better than expected. This year we're probably about 15th best and that's about where we are.

The main thing I find irritating is ignoring the fact that all the other teams were also spending money and/or had been in the prem for years. 

Honestly, where do you think we should've finished last year/this year? And if you think it's higher than me, which teams are we finishing above and what makes us better than them? I think these are reasonable questions if you're gonna be critical.

[Paplane]

Steve was constantly demanding more and more players every window so he must shoulder some responsibility.

Some good players were recruited for this football club and were just ignored and cold shouldered.

That might be acceptable to you but for me and many others it's not.

Back to Shelvey his record speaks for itself over 200 games in the PL, 6 England caps.

Yeah 30 odd good players were recruited and he could only play 11. There's a lot of players that were unable to play.

Back to Shelvey, you're right his record speaks for itself. He was awful for Forest, repeatedly made careless mistakes and then refused to be on the bench when he got dropped. Indefensible.

Wassy you just want to blame recruitment for everything when there is clearly a much bigger picture to be painted.

I am the first to admit that recruitment was/is not perfect like at every club but why can't you admit that Cooper made some very odd decisions?

A lot of denial going on Sniff. Not just Wassy (I admire his unflinching defence of the side), but others (not just some who post on here) are so mesmerised by Cooper's reign that they just cant see what was happening in front of their eyes. I liked Cooper a lot but I can see that for half of last season and all of this season, results and decisions made were disasterous.

I happy to criticise Cooper, I've been consistent that I thought we never should've abandoned wingbacks (in the fact that's the only odd decision) and that MGW should've been playing centrally.

Results weren't disastrous though, we were probably the 19th best team in the league and finished higher than that so actually I'd say results were better than expected. This year we're probably about 15th best and that's about where we are.

The main thing I find irritating is ignoring the fact that all the other teams were also spending money and/or had been in the prem for years. 

Honestly, where do you think we should've finished last year/this year? And if you think it's higher than me, which teams are we finishing above and what makes us better than them? I think these are reasonable questions if you're gonna be critical.

I admired Cooper chamging tack last season at the beginning when we were getting thumped 4 and 5 every week. He did exactly what was required, he shut up shop and stopped the rot. But after that peruod we began to played with a defree of fluidity and the results came. Then injuries struck and we were back at square one. Nothing Cooper could have done about that. Id say that decent form, before the world cup was about the level the side was capable of. On the whole, staying in the divison was an excellent result. But this season, the club obviously set up to move on from that and it hasnt happened. We've added quality and yet we were playing at the same levels as last season with the same, hanging on tactics and relying on big Taiwo to do everything up front. The away form was consistently poor too. 

This season i reckon our true level should be about 12th or 13th. Anything below that is below par imo.

[wassy04]

Yeah 30 odd good players were recruited and he could only play 11. There's a lot of players that were unable to play.

Back to Shelvey, you're right his record speaks for itself. He was awful for Forest, repeatedly made careless mistakes and then refused to be on the bench when he got dropped. Indefensible.

Wassy you just want to blame recruitment for everything when there is clearly a much bigger picture to be painted.

I am the first to admit that recruitment was/is not perfect like at every club but why can't you admit that Cooper made some very odd decisions?

A lot of denial going on Sniff. Not just Wassy (I admire his unflinching defence of the side), but others (not just some who post on here) are so mesmerised by Cooper's reign that they just cant see what was happening in front of their eyes. I liked Cooper a lot but I can see that for half of last season and all of this season, results and decisions made were disasterous.

I happy to criticise Cooper, I've been consistent that I thought we never should've abandoned wingbacks (in the fact that's the only odd decision) and that MGW should've been playing centrally.

Results weren't disastrous though, we were probably the 19th best team in the league and finished higher than that so actually I'd say results were better than expected. This year we're probably about 15th best and that's about where we are.

The main thing I find irritating is ignoring the fact that all the other teams were also spending money and/or had been in the prem for years. 

Honestly, where do you think we should've finished last year/this year? And if you think it's higher than me, which teams are we finishing above and what makes us better than them? I think these are reasonable questions if you're gonna be critical.

I admired Cooper chamging tack last season at the beginning when we were getting thumped 4 and 5 every week. He did exactly what was required, he shut up shop and stopped the rot. But after that peruod we began to played with a defree of fluidity and the results came. Then injuries struck and we were back at square one. Nothing Cooper could have done about that. Id say that decent form, before the world cup was about the level the side was capable of. On the whole, staying in the divison was an excellent result. But this season, the club obviously set up to move on from that and it hasnt happened. We've added quality and yet we were playing at the same levels as last season with the same, hanging on tactics and relying on big Taiwo to do everything up front. The away form was consistently poor too. 

This season i reckon our true level should be about 12th or 13th. Anything below that is below par imo.

Obviously Sheff Utd, Luton, Burnley, Everton (with the points deduction). Who are the other teams we should according to you finish above?