Stevie Cooper

[wassy04]

Back to Cooper, for the remaining games until the transfer window, if Cooper was to leave now. What are the Cooper out brigade expecting a new manager to do differently? I will never understand this logic, there's no miracle cure or tactic that will suddenly improve the team. We don't have a starting calibre striker, that's usually a pretty big weakness. That Elanga is the best option despite clearly not being a striker is pretty damning.

So what are you expecting, a new manager suddenly throws in Montiel, Tavares, Sangare, Santos? A bunch of guys that have both underwhelmed when played (or in training presumably in Santos case) and just haven't played so aren't going to be overly fit. It really feels like people just want a change for change sake and assume that it will work out well. Despite the statistical evidence against it. Maybe ask Leeds, Leicester and Southampton fans whether they're happy they made changes last year.

[Tricky]

I know this might sound bonkers, but it was mentioned on here a few days ago, and I think it is a good shout.

When fit, why not give Murillo a stab up top?

He is strong and can hold the ball up well, he is good with his head and he likes to run at the opposition with the ball at his feet.

Thoughts?

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

I am keeping off this thread because some twist my posts around to mean something that they don't really mean and it's damn annoying.

In fact I am not mentioning either Steve Cooper's name or EM's name again for the foreseeable future.

I'm out.

[willdared]

2 Wins in 10 this season under Cooper, Is Marinakis gonna pull the trigger soon, 
It has been an amazing ride of the last 2 years, To get us to this point but I think we have to aim for a Better Manager 
We have not won in 6 games now 
4 draws and 2 defeats

Wrongly or rightly if we lose our next 2 games then Steve is in big trouble, it's the nature of the beast.

There are a whole handful of managers currently available who EM really likes.

One Brazilian, one Argentinian, one Spaniard, one Portuguese and one Englishman.

Rooney's gone Birmingham Sniff.

Back to Cooper, for the remaining games until the transfer window, if Cooper was to leave now. What are the Cooper out brigade expecting a new manager to do differently? I will never understand this logic, there's no miracle cure or tactic that will suddenly improve the team. We don't have a starting calibre striker, that's usually a pretty big weakness. That Elanga is the best option despite clearly not being a striker is pretty damning.

So what are you expecting, a new manager suddenly throws in Montiel, Tavares, Sangare, Santos? A bunch of guys that have both underwhelmed when played (or in training presumably in Santos case) and just haven't played so aren't going to be overly fit. It really feels like people just want a change for change sake and assume that it will work out well. Despite the statistical evidence against it. Maybe ask Leeds, Leicester and Southampton fans whether they're happy they made changes last year.

I am neither cooper out nor a fanboy but will be sad the day he does leaves due to what he has done. Not sure how you can question what a new manager can bring/change when cooper did this exact thing when taking over hughton. 

It is a risk changing managers but one that could work. The players you mention could come good under new leadership. They could also remain ineffective.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

I am keeping off this thread because some twist my posts around to mean something that they don't really mean and it's damn annoying.

In fact I am not mentioning either Steve Cooper's name or EM's name again for the foreseeable future.

I'm out.

I am trying to stop various posters on both sides of the argument making stuff up and twisting facts to suit their own opinion.

If I have misunderstood anyone I apologise but I am now trying to remain objective and balanced.

If you are fed up I don’t blame you, I took a week off myself because I was bored of the circus.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

I know this might sound bonkers, but it was mentioned on here a few days ago, and I think it is a good shout.

When fit, why not give Murillo a stab up top?

He is strong and can hold the ball up well, he is good with his head and he likes to run at the opposition with the ball at his feet.

Thoughts?

Ive thought the same Tricks. He would definitely get stuck in. The Brazilian Greg Halford.

Just…..it does have a few vibes of Stuart Pearce playing David James up top. Then again its no madder than some of the posts on this thread.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Back to Cooper, for the remaining games until the transfer window, if Cooper was to leave now. What are the Cooper out brigade expecting a new manager to do differently? I will never understand this logic, there's no miracle cure or tactic that will suddenly improve the team. We don't have a starting calibre striker, that's usually a pretty big weakness. That Elanga is the best option despite clearly not being a striker is pretty damning.

So what are you expecting, a new manager suddenly throws in Montiel, Tavares, Sangare, Santos? A bunch of guys that have both underwhelmed when played (or in training presumably in Santos case) and just haven't played so aren't going to be overly fit. It really feels like people just want a change for change sake and assume that it will work out well. Despite the statistical evidence against it. Maybe ask Leeds, Leicester and Southampton fans whether they're happy they made changes last year.

Wassy you know I desperately want Cooper to stay but the Everton and Fulham games convinced me that for whatever reason some of the squad simply aren’t responding to him. When that happens any manager is on very very thin ice.
I don’t think we are as strong as some like to think either but objectively we are currently going backwards and look weaker even than last season. Something has to change. Somebody has to make a clear decision for the good of the club, they either back Cooper and any players who don’t like it leave or we change head coach. The second option is probably the simpler one, even if neither of us want it.

[wassy04]

2 Wins in 10 this season under Cooper, Is Marinakis gonna pull the trigger soon, 
It has been an amazing ride of the last 2 years, To get us to this point but I think we have to aim for a Better Manager 
We have not won in 6 games now 
4 draws and 2 defeats

Wrongly or rightly if we lose our next 2 games then Steve is in big trouble, it's the nature of the beast.

There are a whole handful of managers currently available who EM really likes.

One Brazilian, one Argentinian, one Spaniard, one Portuguese and one Englishman.

Rooney's gone Birmingham Sniff.

Back to Cooper, for the remaining games until the transfer window, if Cooper was to leave now. What are the Cooper out brigade expecting a new manager to do differently? I will never understand this logic, there's no miracle cure or tactic that will suddenly improve the team. We don't have a starting calibre striker, that's usually a pretty big weakness. That Elanga is the best option despite clearly not being a striker is pretty damning.

So what are you expecting, a new manager suddenly throws in Montiel, Tavares, Sangare, Santos? A bunch of guys that have both underwhelmed when played (or in training presumably in Santos case) and just haven't played so aren't going to be overly fit. It really feels like people just want a change for change sake and assume that it will work out well. Despite the statistical evidence against it. Maybe ask Leeds, Leicester and Southampton fans whether they're happy they made changes last year.

I am neither cooper out nor a fanboy but will be sad the day he does leaves due to what he has done. Not sure how you can question what a new manager can bring/change when cooper did this exact thing when taking over hughton. 

It is a risk changing managers but one that could work. The players you mention could come good under new leadership. They could also remain ineffective.

Cooper did get a few new players as soon as he started too though, some guy called Spence turned out to be pretty influential. It really depends on whether you think this team is playing worse than they can do or not. Personally, with the personnel available (Ie no striker and a lack of decent attackers), I don't believe there's loads more to offer than what we saw at Wolves. Then it's about whether you think the potential short term boost of a change in system/starting personnel is worth giving up the relationship Cooper has built across the club with fans/players and his history, again I do not believe this is worth it.

[wassy04]

Back to Cooper, for the remaining games until the transfer window, if Cooper was to leave now. What are the Cooper out brigade expecting a new manager to do differently? I will never understand this logic, there's no miracle cure or tactic that will suddenly improve the team. We don't have a starting calibre striker, that's usually a pretty big weakness. That Elanga is the best option despite clearly not being a striker is pretty damning.

So what are you expecting, a new manager suddenly throws in Montiel, Tavares, Sangare, Santos? A bunch of guys that have both underwhelmed when played (or in training presumably in Santos case) and just haven't played so aren't going to be overly fit. It really feels like people just want a change for change sake and assume that it will work out well. Despite the statistical evidence against it. Maybe ask Leeds, Leicester and Southampton fans whether they're happy they made changes last year.

Wassy you know I desperately want Cooper to stay but the Everton and Fulham games convinced me that for whatever reason some of the squad simply aren’t responding to him. When that happens any manager is on very very thin ice.
I don’t think we are as strong as some like to think either but objectively we are currently going backwards and look weaker even than last season. Something has to change. Somebody has to make a clear decision for the good of the club, they either back Cooper and any players who don’t like it leave or we change head coach. The second option is probably the simpler one, even if neither of us want it.

I 100% agree the Fulham game was a joke, a bunch of players deserved the sack after that game. Everton was not as bad for me, it wasn't good but was a tight game that swung on a non pen decision. They've been crushing it since then too as have Fulham which negates it a bit too. 

I stick by what I said above, this squad has always been overrated due to the figures spent and I believe we have a worse team (without Taiwo) than 16 other clubs, pretty simple. I am happy to criticise Steve too, I've no idea why we stopped playing wingbacks despite clearly building a squad for that purpose. However, that doesn't mean I think he should leave, I don't really get why you to be all in or all out. Feels like most should be in the happy middle of giving him time to learn from his mistakes and adapt based on available personnel. Plus potentially some time with a new CF from Jan onwards and some time with Taiwo when he's next available.

Too many people hide behind EM's trigger finger in Greece but that has not been the case in the UK and he's been surprisingly lenient with managers in his time. Hughton, Sabri and Cooper all got more time than they perhaps would've done at other clubs. EM has shown willingness to be patient and I still think a few wins and everything can be forgiven.

[Shawoddyred]

Back to Cooper, for the remaining games until the transfer window, if Cooper was to leave now. What are the Cooper out brigade expecting a new manager to do differently? I will never understand this logic, there's no miracle cure or tactic that will suddenly improve the team. We don't have a starting calibre striker, that's usually a pretty big weakness. That Elanga is the best option despite clearly not being a striker is pretty damning.

So what are you expecting, a new manager suddenly throws in Montiel, Tavares, Sangare, Santos? A bunch of guys that have both underwhelmed when played (or in training presumably in Santos case) and just haven't played so aren't going to be overly fit. It really feels like people just want a change for change sake and assume that it will work out well. Despite the statistical evidence against it. Maybe ask Leeds, Leicester and Southampton fans whether they're happy they made changes last year.

I know you're desperate for him to stay. But my personal opinion is that Coops is overly reliant on a very specific type of striker. Taiwo is the Prem version of Davis for me. When we were in the champ, our team performances were way better when Davis played. However, we were able to win games when he was injured mainly because of the Spence, Brennen combo was so good compared to the opposition that we could still score goals through that route without Davis causing chaos. Garner also put some good free kicks into the box. 

Fast forward to now and without Taiwo we are toothless. I think it's because the way we play is completely reliant on him and I think it's Coops job to come up with alternatives that work. Unfortunately, Taiwo is prone to injury....and I also believe that the vast majority of players like him (there aren't that many), who are big lads, fast, mobile etc will typically suffer from regular injuries because of their weight and how they use their bodies. 

We desperately need to find a way to work with other strikers and that is on Coops. If he can't we need someone who can, in my mind it is as simple as that. Elanga (and last year Brennan) are Coops' idea of a best option as you suggest above - another manager may be able to bring out something better from other payers in the squad, I don't understand why you can't recognise that it is possible. It might not happen and the change might not improve us, of course that's possible, but for me it's at the point now where if we don't drastically change something then we are very likely to be relegated and the values of a load of players has drastically reduced, putting us in a precarious financial position. It's not like we're even making many chances for Wood, Origi, etc etc to fluff and they are experienced enough at playing at high levels to be putting themselves in the right places to get on the end of chances. The wingbacks did against Wolves, when he went back to a back 3, which is clearly our best way forward and he stuck with 4 at the back for about 10 games, which was criminal. Those games where we persisted with 4 at the back really irritated me, that's a quarter of the season and it was against 'lesser' opponents who we needed to get points from. Unfortunately, you don't have that amount of time to play around with a failing system. 

It is not a change for changes sake. He is underperforming in his job. I would prefer him to perform to a good enough level to not be questioned because he is rightly a Forest legend because of the past 2 seasons, but he isn't performing now and it is on him. He also needs to work out how to work with certain types of people. For someone with what appear to be excellent man management skills and a nice bloke, there is a huge amount of players not putting enough in and a large bomb squad. This is a major part of a managers role. It's easy to manage players and be everyone's mate when we're winning....

[northeastred]

Lopetgui now linked with man united

[Paplane]

Back to Cooper, for the remaining games until the transfer window, if Cooper was to leave now. What are the Cooper out brigade expecting a new manager to do differently? I will never understand this logic, there's no miracle cure or tactic that will suddenly improve the team. We don't have a starting calibre striker, that's usually a pretty big weakness. That Elanga is the best option despite clearly not being a striker is pretty damning.

So what are you expecting, a new manager suddenly throws in Montiel, Tavares, Sangare, Santos? A bunch of guys that have both underwhelmed when played (or in training presumably in Santos case) and just haven't played so aren't going to be overly fit. It really feels like people just want a change for change sake and assume that it will work out well. Despite the statistical evidence against it. Maybe ask Leeds, Leicester and Southampton fans whether they're happy they made changes last year.

I know you're desperate for him to stay. But my personal opinion is that Coops is overly reliant on a very specific type of striker. Taiwo is the Prem version of Davis for me. When we were in the champ, our team performances were way better when Davis played. However, we were able to win games when he was injured mainly because of the Spence, Brennen combo was so good compared to the opposition that we could still score goals through that route without Davis causing chaos. Garner also put some good free kicks into the box. 

Fast forward to now and without Taiwo we are toothless. I think it's because the way we play is completely reliant on him and I think it's Coops job to come up with alternatives that work. Unfortunately, Taiwo is prone to injury....and I also believe that the vast majority of players like him (there aren't that many), who are big lads, fast, mobile etc will typically suffer from regular injuries because of their weight and how they use their bodies. 

We desperately need to find a way to work with other strikers and that is on Coops. If he can't we need someone who can, in my mind it is as simple as that. Elanga (and last year Brennan) are Coops' idea of a best option as you suggest above - another manager may be able to bring out something better from other payers in the squad, I don't understand why you can't recognise that it is possible. It might not happen and the change might not improve us, of course that's possible, but for me it's at the point now where if we don't drastically change something then we are very likely to be relegated and the values of a load of players has drastically reduced, putting us in a precarious financial position. It's not like we're even making many chances for Wood, Origi, etc etc to fluff and they are experienced enough at playing at high levels to be putting themselves in the right places to get on the end of chances. The wingbacks did against Wolves, when he went back to a back 3, which is clearly our best way forward and he stuck with 4 at the back for about 10 games, which was criminal. Those games where we persisted with 4 at the back really irritated me, that's a quarter of the season and it was against 'lesser' opponents who we needed to get points from. Unfortunately, you don't have that amount of time to play around with a failing system. 

It is not a change for changes sake. He is underperforming in his job. I would prefer him to perform to a good enough level to not be questioned because he is rightly a Forest legend because of the past 2 seasons, but he isn't performing now and it is on him. He also needs to work out how to work with certain types of people. For someone with what appear to be excellent man management skills and a nice bloke, there is a huge amount of players not putting enough in and a large bomb squad. This is a major part of a managers role. It's easy to manage players and be everyone's mate when we're winning....

Agree with every word Wadsy.