Nottingham Forest - Manchester United

[willdared]

No doubt there midfield ran the game yesterday but agree that should of been a penalty based on current handball rules.. not saying the result would have been different but it could have changed the flow of the game.

Thought it was similar to the one given against us versus Newcastle.

[Shawoddyred]

We didn't lose yesterday because of the penalty. Well, maybe we did. But i simply cannot get my head around the way we setup against them. 5 minutes in it was clear that they had too much space.

Their forwards and defense were garbage yesterday. But we let their class players have so much space and an extra man in the middle.

[Paplane]

The back 5 only works when the wing backs bomb on. Ours didnt because our midfield couldn't get a grip and play the passes with any composure. You cant criticise Williams' effort yesterday but we look a far more composed team with Aurier at the back.

[wassy04]

We didn't lose yesterday because of the penalty.  Well, maybe we did. But i simply cannot get my head around the  way we setup against them. 5 minutes in it was clear that they had too much space.

Their forwards and defense were garbage yesterday. But we let their class players have so much space and an extra man in the middle.

Every week People complain about our lack of attacking options, this week he went for it in attack sacrificing space in midfield and its getting criticised again. I think we need to accept that these guys just aren't good enough right now, regardless of tactics or setup. 

We actually created some chances yesterday, hit the woodwork twice, Felipe should've scored Awoniyi missed an open goal and that one on one.

[Paplane]

We didn't lose yesterday because of the penalty.  Well, maybe we did. But i simply cannot get my head around the  way we setup against them. 5 minutes in it was clear that they had too much space.

Their forwards and defense were garbage yesterday. But we let their class players have so much space and an extra man in the middle.

Every week People complain about our lack of attacking options, this week he went for it in attack sacrificing space in midfield and its getting criticised again. I think we need to accept that these guys just aren't good enough right now, regardless of tactics or setup. 

We actually created some chances yesterday, hit the woodwork twice, Felipe should've scored Awoniyi missed an open goal and that one on one.

I agree they're not good enough. Where I disagree is that there are different ways of playing with the same set of players. I simply don't accept that this group is as talentless as the current form indicates.

Anyway, enough feom me now, I've got work to do.

[Shawoddyred]

We didn't lose yesterday because of the penalty.  Well, maybe we did. But i simply cannot get my head around the  way we setup against them. 5 minutes in it was clear that they had too much space.

Their forwards and defense were garbage yesterday. But we let their class players have so much space and an extra man in the middle.

Every week People complain about our lack of attacking options, this week he went for it in attack sacrificing space in midfield and its getting criticised again. I think we need to accept that these guys just aren't good enough right now, regardless of tactics or setup. 

We actually created some chances yesterday, hit the woodwork twice, Felipe should've scored Awoniyi missed an open goal and that one on one.

I agree they're not good enough. Where I disagree is that there are different ways of playing with the same set of players. I simply don't accept that this group is as talentless as the current form indicates.

Anyway, enough feom me now, I've got work to do.

Yeah, come on Wassy, please accept we should have at least matched them up in the midfield. It's nothing to do with being attacking or defensive. We did not need a back 5 yesterday but that's what we ended up with. Who exactly were our 3 CBs playing against? Good player, but Martial.....just back from injury too. Our wing backs took on Anthony and Sancho (who are absolute garbage regardless of price). We had a pretty flat back 5, playing way too deep, with a huge gap in the midfield. It was defensive. I don't even remember a single offside being given against United. If Felipe had played throughout like he did in the late second half where he stepped into midfield, we looked so much more threatening because all of a sudden, they didn't have a free man. It was crying out for 4 at the back so early on! 

5 minutes in we should have switched it up - that could even have been telling MGW to sit on Casemiro for a bit so  Danilo and Freuler could then take on Fernandez and Erikson. But we didn't and we let 3 really good, experienced players play a 3 against 2 in the midfield.

[wassy04]

We didn't lose yesterday because of the penalty.  Well, maybe we did. But i simply cannot get my head around the  way we setup against them. 5 minutes in it was clear that they had too much space.

Their forwards and defense were garbage yesterday. But we let their class players have so much space and an extra man in the middle.

Every week People complain about our lack of attacking options, this week he went for it in attack sacrificing space in midfield and its getting criticised again. I think we need to accept that these guys just aren't good enough right now, regardless of tactics or setup. 

We actually created some chances yesterday, hit the woodwork twice, Felipe should've scored Awoniyi missed an open goal and that one on one.

I agree they're not good enough. Where I disagree is that there are different ways of playing with the same set of players. I simply don't accept that this group is as talentless as the current form indicates.

Anyway, enough feom me now, I've got work to do.

Perhaps not, I do honestly think that a win or two and we would see slightly improved performances through a boost in confidence. 

It was nice actually having a reasonably strong team out yesterday, probably only Yates, Boly and Kouyate missing now. (Henderson also I suppose although both similar). Obviously Taiwo needs time to rebuild his fitness and is still the same average player that he was before he got injured but he does have some good characteristics too. 

Neco is so much better in a RWB formation, really hides his inability as a proper right back, do they not practise defending with their full backs at Liverpool?! Tough call once Aurier is back whether you stick with three at the back or revert to 433. Maybe depends on which midfielders are available and whether we're sticking with MGW (which I presume he will do).

[wassy04]

We didn't lose yesterday because of the penalty.  Well, maybe we did. But i simply cannot get my head around the  way we setup against them. 5 minutes in it was clear that they had too much space.

Their forwards and defense were garbage yesterday. But we let their class players have so much space and an extra man in the middle.

Every week People complain about our lack of attacking options, this week he went for it in attack sacrificing space in midfield and its getting criticised again. I think we need to accept that these guys just aren't good enough right now, regardless of tactics or setup. 

We actually created some chances yesterday, hit the woodwork twice, Felipe should've scored Awoniyi missed an open goal and that one on one.

I agree they're not good enough. Where I disagree is that there are different ways of playing with the same set of players. I simply don't accept that this group is as talentless as the current form indicates.

Anyway, enough feom me now, I've got work to do.

Yeah, come on Wassy, please accept we should have at least matched them up in the midfield. It's nothing to do with being attacking or defensive. We did not need a back 5 yesterday but that's what we ended up with. Who exactly were our 3 CBs playing against? Good player, but Martial.....just back from injury too. Our wing backs took on Anthony and Sancho (who are absolute garbage regardless of price). We had a pretty flat back 5, playing way too deep, with a huge gap in the midfield. It was defensive. I don't even remember a single offside being given against United. If Felipe had played throughout like he did in the late second half where he stepped into midfield, we looked so much more threatening because all of a sudden, they didn't have a free man. It was crying out for 4 at the back so early on! 

5 minutes in we should have switched it up - that could even have been telling MGW to sit on Casemiro for a bit so  Danilo and Freuler could then take on Fernandez and Erikson. But we didn't and we let 3 really good, experienced players play a 3 against 2 in the midfield.

I'm pretty sure the above was the plan, it just didn't work as Steve alluded to. If you take a CB out then you expose Neco at RB whereas as a wingback he was getting into some good areas. I agree it would've been better with Mangala instead of MGW but you can't exactly make that change after 5 minutes? MGW should've sat deeper though agreed, this was the reason we had to stop this formation earlier in the year too, a little frustrating that the lesson hasn't been learned.

[Shawoddyred]

We didn't lose yesterday because of the penalty.  Well, maybe we did. But i simply cannot get my head around the  way we setup against them. 5 minutes in it was clear that they had too much space.

Their forwards and defense were garbage yesterday. But we let their class players have so much space and an extra man in the middle.

Every week People complain about our lack of attacking options, this week he went for it in attack sacrificing space in midfield and its getting criticised again. I think we need to accept that these guys just aren't good enough right now, regardless of tactics or setup. 

We actually created some chances yesterday, hit the woodwork twice, Felipe should've scored Awoniyi missed an open goal and that one on one.

I agree they're not good enough. Where I disagree is that there are different ways of playing with the same set of players. I simply don't accept that this group is as talentless as the current form indicates.

Anyway, enough feom me now, I've got work to do.

Yeah, come on Wassy, please accept we should have at least matched them up in the midfield. It's nothing to do with being attacking or defensive. We did not need a back 5 yesterday but that's what we ended up with. Who exactly were our 3 CBs playing against? Good player, but Martial.....just back from injury too. Our wing backs took on Anthony and Sancho (who are absolute garbage regardless of price). We had a pretty flat back 5, playing way too deep, with a huge gap in the midfield. It was defensive. I don't even remember a single offside being given against United. If Felipe had played throughout like he did in the late second half where he stepped into midfield, we looked so much more threatening because all of a sudden, they didn't have a free man. It was crying out for 4 at the back so early on! 

5 minutes in we should have switched it up - that could even have been telling MGW to sit on Casemiro for a bit so  Danilo and Freuler could then take on Fernandez and Erikson. But we didn't and we let 3 really good, experienced players play a 3 against 2 in the midfield.

I'm pretty sure the above was the plan, it just didn't work as Steve alluded to. If you take a CB out then you expose Neco at RB whereas as a wingback he was getting into some good areas. I agree it would've been better with Mangala instead of MGW but you can't exactly make that change after 5 minutes? MGW should've sat deeper though agreed, this was the reason we had to stop this formation earlier in the year too, a little frustrating that the lesson hasn't been learned.

I do agree that Neco is much better as a wing back, but I think we should have sucked that up, gone with 4 3 3 and yes, take off a CB after 5 minutes for Mangala or even Shelvey - would have sucked for the player but thems the breaks. Also, Lodi is much better as a LB than LWB so you'd have benefitted there. 

I actually really like Neco as a winger to be honest. Think he should move up the field and play on the left.

[wassy04]

Every week People complain about our lack of attacking options, this week he went for it in attack sacrificing space in midfield and its getting criticised again. I think we need to accept that these guys just aren't good enough right now, regardless of tactics or setup. 

We actually created some chances yesterday, hit the woodwork twice, Felipe should've scored Awoniyi missed an open goal and that one on one.

I agree they're not good enough. Where I disagree is that there are different ways of playing with the same set of players. I simply don't accept that this group is as talentless as the current form indicates.

Anyway, enough feom me now, I've got work to do.

Yeah, come on Wassy, please accept we should have at least matched them up in the midfield. It's nothing to do with being attacking or defensive. We did not need a back 5 yesterday but that's what we ended up with. Who exactly were our 3 CBs playing against? Good player, but Martial.....just back from injury too. Our wing backs took on Anthony and Sancho (who are absolute garbage regardless of price). We had a pretty flat back 5, playing way too deep, with a huge gap in the midfield. It was defensive. I don't even remember a single offside being given against United. If Felipe had played throughout like he did in the late second half where he stepped into midfield, we looked so much more threatening because all of a sudden, they didn't have a free man. It was crying out for 4 at the back so early on! 

5 minutes in we should have switched it up - that could even have been telling MGW to sit on Casemiro for a bit so  Danilo and Freuler could then take on Fernandez and Erikson. But we didn't and we let 3 really good, experienced players play a 3 against 2 in the midfield.

I'm pretty sure the above was the plan, it just didn't work as Steve alluded to. If you take a CB out then you expose Neco at RB whereas as a wingback he was getting into some good areas. I agree it would've been better with Mangala instead of MGW but you can't exactly make that change after 5 minutes? MGW should've sat deeper though agreed, this was the reason we had to stop this formation earlier in the year too, a little frustrating that the lesson hasn't been learned.

I do agree that Neco is much better as a wing back, but I think we should have sucked that up, gone with 4 3 3 and yes, take off a CB after 5 minutes for Mangala or even Shelvey - would have sucked for the player but thems the breaks. Also, Lodi is much better as a LB than LWB so you'd have benefitted there. 

I actually really like Neco as a winger to be honest. Think he should move up the field and play on the left.

Yeah that is true, it made more sense when Toff needed to play still too. 

We have been playing the above for a while now though and getting battered in midfield anyway. Also, getting a lot of abuse for choosing that tactic every week, feels like he can't win unless we do (which is basically the case).

I remain unconvinced that last year's tactics can work at this level due to only having 2 CMs unless MGW drops in more which he didn't yesterday. I personally preferred the 433 but it was clearly not working and we we constantly getting slaughtered. Maybe it'd work better with Kouyate and Yates who knows, we won't find out this year. It looked better at Villa when we had 3 in there though.

At Anfield you presume (assuming he's still there) we take out Awoniyi or MGW and bring in a 3rd CM, surely.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Our wing backs took on Anthony and Sancho (who are absolute garbage regardless of price).


5 minutes in we should have switched it up - that could even have been telling MGW to sit on Casemiro for a bit so  Danilo and Freuler could then take on Fernandez and Erikson. But we didn't and we let 3 really good, experienced players play a 3 against 2 in the midfield.

A good considered debate from you again, opinions and all that.

Sorry but I can’t let these points go!

Anthony and Sancho are definitely not garbage!! We don’t have any player in our squad even approaching their level. Think the 3 CBs was worth a go and to try to use wing backs to exploit Utds relative weaknesses. It was always going to leave gaps in midfield, damned either way.

Danilo and Freuler could then take on Fernandez and Erikson? Dont make me laugh. Neither are Premier League level in my opinion and it showed.
Also makes the noise about MGW being in the England squad a few weeks back look a bit ridiculous. Did Casemiro let him have a kick? If he did I missed it.

[DeesideRed]

Absolutely shocking today. It really was. We have no plan except chuck it into the channels but we're not even good at that - most of the time gets cut out.

A weakened united....today started with 4 genuine class players.....de gea, fernandez, Eriksson and caismero. 3 in CM. We play 2 and give their actual class players the freedom of nottingham.

2 unpopular opinions from me today -
Steve is a really great man manager but very poor tactically. We need better tactics to stay up and he doesn't seem able to deliver. Potentially a top number 2 but thats not going to happen.
My other unpopular opinion....MGW does not have the physical attributes to be a top player. Not fast, not strong, doesn't have short distance turning or acceleration. Good player, unfortunately held back in my opinion.

So his tactics last season were poor also?

How about, we were beaten by a team that spent £250M last season alone and that isnt including the many other players who were already on their books?

Yes today we were made to look like schoolboys playing against men. That is the gulf between us smaller, less attractive sides and the big 6.

But I am sick and tired of seeing and hearing the same old negativity week after week after week. 

Today was the 4th time Utd have beaten us this season. Nothing to do with tactics or formations, just a field full of international superstars with far greater skills, experience and flair than any player wearing the Garibaldi.. It's about time some of you stopped making out we are something we aren't. We are a newly promoted team with a squad full of new players with the exception of a few. Bournemouth and Fulham, who went up with us already had squads from the PL. We didn't. In fact we didn't even have a squad!

How many of you said at the start of the season, you would be happy if we finished the season in 17th place? We are one place away from 17th with only goal difference separating us from that spot. Either make your minds up what you want or be careful what you wish for!

For me, the biggest let downs have been those that have come in with a massive fee attached. Awoniyi, MGW, Wood, Lingard (wages alone). They have simply not produced.

Easy now. It's just my opinion. Last season the tactic worked..... quite possibly because of djed spence and yates being fit. And anyway, nothing is ever perfect and yes, there were aspects of last season that were starting to become concerning that are actually ignored because ultimately we did get promoted. We definitely didn't score enough goals last season or dominate opponents enough but whatever, we got promoted. 

We currently don't have the pleasure of a djed spence or a fit yates. So in my opinion the system needs to change somewhat. Also, our defense cannot hold out in the same way this season, yes due to the quality of the opposition. 

Steve seems to be able to get something extra out of the team when there's basically nothing to lose. The run last year from bottom.... until  we were on the cusp of automatic and we then hit a wall....although again, we got over the line somehow - though benefited from some fair luck in the playoffs, which is absolutely fine by me!

This year, we went on a good run, again when we basically had nothing to lose. Now, and for past 10 or so games we've had something  to lose and gone completely shocking again!

Tactics are not simply about formation.... But about how you go about things within that formation structure. What opponent to press and when. How high up the pitch to defend. Blah blah blah. 

I'm grumpy. We've played united 4 times this year and rolled over for them every time way more than the other top teams. Really grates because my united supporting mate is lacking his usual entitled arrogance and seems to pity us!!

There is the Djed factor but its more that it was a 3-4-3 whereas in the Prem its been very much a back 5 as we're trying not to concede and then leaving a 2 in midfield being overrun.

We were better 4-3-3 with 3 yard dogs in midfield. The team seems setup around MGW who for me, just doesnt score / create enough to warrant this.