Nottingham Forest - Manchester United

[wassy04]

Tricky post: So his tactics last season were poor also?

How about, we were beaten by a team that spent £250M last season alone and that isnt including the many other players who were already on their books?

Yes today we were made to look like schoolboys playing against men. That is the gulf between us smaller, less attractive sides and the big 6.

But I am sick and tired of seeing and hearing the same old negativity week after week after week.

Tricky, last season we were playing in the Championship a much lower standard then the PL, also as regards internationals and correct me if I am wrong but all but Surridge that played today are current or recent internationals. We have also spent the thick end of £180 million, its down to coaching and SC and his backroom staff inexperience at this level.

International football is a not a way to judge if a player is any good. If you're getting games for one of the top countries then fair enough but Wales, Senegal, Scotland, Switzerland are not hard to get in to.

[Shawoddyred]

Absolutely shocking today. It really was. We have no plan except chuck it into the channels but we're not even good at that - most of the time gets cut out.

A weakened united....today started with 4 genuine class players.....de gea, fernandez, Eriksson and caismero. 3 in CM. We play 2 and give their actual class players the freedom of nottingham.

2 unpopular opinions from me today -
Steve is a really great man manager but very poor tactically. We need better tactics to stay up and he doesn't seem able to deliver. Potentially a top number 2 but thats not going to happen.
My other unpopular opinion....MGW does not have the physical attributes to be a top player. Not fast, not strong, doesn't have short distance turning or acceleration. Good player, unfortunately held back in my opinion.

So his tactics last season were poor also?

How about, we were beaten by a team that spent £250M last season alone and that isnt including the many other players who were already on their books?

Yes today we were made to look like schoolboys playing against men. That is the gulf between us smaller, less attractive sides and the big 6.

But I am sick and tired of seeing and hearing the same old negativity week after week after week. 

Today was the 4th time Utd have beaten us this season. Nothing to do with tactics or formations, just a field full of international superstars with far greater skills, experience and flair than any player wearing the Garibaldi.. It's about time some of you stopped making out we are something we aren't. We are a newly promoted team with a squad full of new players with the exception of a few. Bournemouth and Fulham, who went up with us already had squads from the PL. We didn't. In fact we didn't even have a squad!

How many of you said at the start of the season, you would be happy if we finished the season in 17th place? We are one place away from 17th with only goal difference separating us from that spot. Either make your minds up what you want or be careful what you wish for!

For me, the biggest let downs have been those that have come in with a massive fee attached. Awoniyi, MGW, Wood, Lingard (wages alone). They have simply not produced.

Easy now. It's just my opinion. Last season the tactic worked..... quite possibly because of djed spence and yates being fit. And anyway, nothing is ever perfect and yes, there were aspects of last season that were starting to become concerning that are actually ignored because ultimately we did get promoted. We definitely didn't score enough goals last season or dominate opponents enough but whatever, we got promoted. 

We currently don't have the pleasure of a djed spence or a fit yates. So in my opinion the system needs to change somewhat. Also, our defense cannot hold out in the same way this season, yes due to the quality of the opposition. 

Steve seems to be able to get something extra out of the team when there's basically nothing to lose. The run last year from bottom.... until  we were on the cusp of automatic and we then hit a wall....although again, we got over the line somehow - though benefited from some fair luck in the playoffs, which is absolutely fine by me!

This year, we went on a good run, again when we basically had nothing to lose. Now, and for past 10 or so games we've had something  to lose and gone completely shocking again!

Tactics are not simply about formation.... But about how you go about things within that formation structure. What opponent to press and when. How high up the pitch to defend. Blah blah blah. 

I'm grumpy. We've played united 4 times this year and rolled over for them every time way more than the other top teams. Really grates because my united supporting mate is lacking his usual entitled arrogance and seems to pity us!!

[Tricky]

Absolutely shocking today. It really was. We have no plan except chuck it into the channels but we're not even good at that - most of the time gets cut out.

A weakened united....today started with 4 genuine class players.....de gea, fernandez, Eriksson and caismero. 3 in CM. We play 2 and give their actual class players the freedom of nottingham.

2 unpopular opinions from me today -
Steve is a really great man manager but very poor tactically. We need better tactics to stay up and he doesn't seem able to deliver. Potentially a top number 2 but thats not going to happen.
My other unpopular opinion....MGW does not have the physical attributes to be a top player. Not fast, not strong, doesn't have short distance turning or acceleration. Good player, unfortunately held back in my opinion.

So his tactics last season were poor also?

How about, we were beaten by a team that spent £250M last season alone and that isnt including the many other players who were already on their books?

Yes today we were made to look like schoolboys playing against men. That is the gulf between us smaller, less attractive sides and the big 6.

But I am sick and tired of seeing and hearing the same old negativity week after week after week. 

Today was the 4th time Utd have beaten us this season. Nothing to do with tactics or formations, just a field full of international superstars with far greater skills, experience and flair than any player wearing the Garibaldi.. It's about time some of you stopped making out we are something we aren't. We are a newly promoted team with a squad full of new players with the exception of a few. Bournemouth and Fulham, who went up with us already had squads from the PL. We didn't. In fact we didn't even have a squad!

How many of you said at the start of the season, you would be happy if we finished the season in 17th place? We are one place away from 17th with only goal difference separating us from that spot. Either make your minds up what you want or be careful what you wish for!

For me, the biggest let downs have been those that have come in with a massive fee attached. Awoniyi, MGW, Wood, Lingard (wages alone). They have simply not produced.

Easy now. It's just my opinion. Last season the tactic worked..... quite possibly because of djed spence and yates being fit. And anyway, nothing is ever perfect and yes, there were aspects of last season that were starting to become concerning that are actually ignored because ultimately we did get promoted. We definitely didn't score enough goals last season or dominate opponents enough but whatever, we got promoted. 

We currently don't have the pleasure of a djed spence or a fit yates. So in my opinion the system needs to change somewhat. Also, our defense cannot hold out in the same way this season, yes due to the quality of the opposition. 

Steve seems to be able to get something extra out of the team when there's basically nothing to lose. The run last year from bottom.... until  we were on the cusp of automatic and we then hit a wall....although again, we got over the line somehow - though benefited from some fair luck in the playoffs, which is absolutely fine by me!

This year, we went on a good run, again when we basically had nothing to lose. Now, and for past 10 or so games we've had something  to lose and gone completely shocking again!

Tactics are not simply about formation.... But about how you go about things within that formation structure. What opponent to press and when. How high up the pitch to defend. Blah blah blah. 

I'm grumpy. We've played united 4 times this year and rolled over for them every time way more than the other top teams. Really grates because my united supporting mate is lacking his usual entitled arrogance and seems to pity us!!

sorry woddy.......didnt mean my rant to be directed entirely at you mate! Just the first bit.

[Jacksbadhobbits]

Freuler was terrible again, non existent as was MGW. Not sure what you're seeing to suggest these guys are able to.do that!

I dont want to turn this into a Cooper in/out rant but should we not be expecting international footballers to be able to play a few passes under pressure?

Yes we should I agree, I'm not sure how a different bloke standing on the touchline would suddenly turn these guys into world beaters though.

They might set them up in a better formation and might  be able to put some fire into their bellies!

We've played 352, 433, 4231. How many other formations are there?! Also, I think we worked hard today just not effectively

I thought there were a couple of players who didn’t put the effort in today.

[Shawoddyred]

Absolutely shocking today. It really was. We have no plan except chuck it into the channels but we're not even good at that - most of the time gets cut out.

A weakened united....today started with 4 genuine class players.....de gea, fernandez, Eriksson and caismero. 3 in CM. We play 2 and give their actual class players the freedom of nottingham.

2 unpopular opinions from me today -
Steve is a really great man manager but very poor tactically. We need better tactics to stay up and he doesn't seem able to deliver. Potentially a top number 2 but thats not going to happen.
My other unpopular opinion....MGW does not have the physical attributes to be a top player. Not fast, not strong, doesn't have short distance turning or acceleration. Good player, unfortunately held back in my opinion.

So his tactics last season were poor also?

How about, we were beaten by a team that spent £250M last season alone and that isnt including the many other players who were already on their books?

Yes today we were made to look like schoolboys playing against men. That is the gulf between us smaller, less attractive sides and the big 6.

But I am sick and tired of seeing and hearing the same old negativity week after week after week. 

Today was the 4th time Utd have beaten us this season. Nothing to do with tactics or formations, just a field full of international superstars with far greater skills, experience and flair than any player wearing the Garibaldi.. It's about time some of you stopped making out we are something we aren't. We are a newly promoted team with a squad full of new players with the exception of a few. Bournemouth and Fulham, who went up with us already had squads from the PL. We didn't. In fact we didn't even have a squad!

How many of you said at the start of the season, you would be happy if we finished the season in 17th place? We are one place away from 17th with only goal difference separating us from that spot. Either make your minds up what you want or be careful what you wish for!

For me, the biggest let downs have been those that have come in with a massive fee attached. Awoniyi, MGW, Wood, Lingard (wages alone). They have simply not produced.

Easy now. It's just my opinion. Last season the tactic worked..... quite possibly because of djed spence and yates being fit. And anyway, nothing is ever perfect and yes, there were aspects of last season that were starting to become concerning that are actually ignored because ultimately we did get promoted. We definitely didn't score enough goals last season or dominate opponents enough but whatever, we got promoted. 

We currently don't have the pleasure of a djed spence or a fit yates. So in my opinion the system needs to change somewhat. Also, our defense cannot hold out in the same way this season, yes due to the quality of the opposition. 

Steve seems to be able to get something extra out of the team when there's basically nothing to lose. The run last year from bottom.... until  we were on the cusp of automatic and we then hit a wall....although again, we got over the line somehow - though benefited from some fair luck in the playoffs, which is absolutely fine by me!

This year, we went on a good run, again when we basically had nothing to lose. Now, and for past 10 or so games we've had something  to lose and gone completely shocking again!

Tactics are not simply about formation.... But about how you go about things within that formation structure. What opponent to press and when. How high up the pitch to defend. Blah blah blah. 

I'm grumpy. We've played united 4 times this year and rolled over for them every time way more than the other top teams. Really grates because my united supporting mate is lacking his usual entitled arrogance and seems to pity us!!

sorry woddy.......didnt mean my rant to be directed entirely at you mate! Just the first bit.

Meh! I am being an annoyingly  grumpy git at the moment!

[wassy04]

I dont want to turn this into a Cooper in/out rant but should we not be expecting international footballers to be able to play a few passes under pressure?

Yes we should I agree, I'm not sure how a different bloke standing on the touchline would suddenly turn these guys into world beaters though.

They might set them up in a better formation and might  be able to put some fire into their bellies!

We've played 352, 433, 4231. How many other formations are there?! Also, I think we worked hard today just not effectively

I thought there were a couple of players who didn’t put the effort in today.

Go on, who?

[Paplane]

Tricky post: So his tactics last season were poor also?

How about, we were beaten by a team that spent £250M last season alone and that isnt including the many other players who were already on their books?

Yes today we were made to look like schoolboys playing against men. That is the gulf between us smaller, less attractive sides and the big 6.

But I am sick and tired of seeing and hearing the same old negativity week after week after week.

Tricky, last season we were playing in the Championship a much lower standard then the PL, also as regards internationals and correct me if I am wrong but all but Surridge that played today are current or recent internationals. We have also spent the thick end of £180 million, its down to coaching and SC and his backroom staff inexperience at this level.

International football is a not a way to judge if a player is any good. If you're getting games for one of the top countries then fair enough but Wales, Senegal, Scotland, Switzerland are not hard to get in to.

Dont think thats right Wassy. And we have a few Brazilians too anyway! I agree the prem is a real test but there's no disputing we have 'some' quality players who have performed away from Forest.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Evening all. Havent read through but a quick glance shows comments are mostly reasonable.

A few random thoughts to get it off my chest…

A midfield of Freuler Danilo and a woefully off form MGW against Casemiro, Bruno Fernandez and Erikson was a complete mismatch in every way imaginable.Having said that why none of those 3 could pass the ball 5 yards between them is beyond me.

Brennan looked disinterested and seemed to back out of a few 50-50s

Taiwo ran around and looked as clumsy as ever with his first touch

Felipe and Navas looked a class above anyone else we had. Shows the difference between those who have performed at the highest level vs those who never have and never will. Just cos we payed £10m for someone doesn’t mean they are even close to that level.

We tried hard for 60 mins but the lack of quality going forward was sad to see because Utd were poor at the back, Maguire is a liability

As for the not given pen changing the game. Probably but in all honesty we should have been a goal down inside the first minute.

Thought formation worth a try, dont think tactics far wrong but we don't have the quality to execute 532 properly. Neco tried hard, bet he looks great in the Championship next year. Lodi is much better as full back than wing back.

Subs anonymous, those crying out for Surridge, he aint a PL level striker. I hope nobody is saying we should have brought on x or y and that would have changed it because it really wouldn’t.

If we go down and I am 90% certain we will, it is because of results vs Bournemouth and Everton, not taking chances vs Chelsea and Wolves, not playing for a draw vs Newcastle and of course the away form. It wasn’t because of today.

Would a different manager have changed any of the above? No idea but I remain Cooper in.

[ozzyten10]

MGW should have come off at half time- his flicks are atarting to really piss me off. Don’t think it’s lack of effort from players at all…

[Username]

Evening all. Havent read through but a quick glance shows comments are mostly reasonable.

A few random thoughts to get it off my chest…

A midfield of Freuler Danilo and a woefully off form MGW against Casemiro, Bruno Fernandez and Erikson was a complete mismatch in every way imaginable.Having said that why none of those 3 could pass the ball 5 yards between them is beyond me.

Brennan looked disinterested and seemed to back out of a few 50-50s

Taiwo ran around and looked as clumsy as ever with his first touch

Felipe and Navas looked a class above anyone else we had. Shows the difference between those who have performed at the highest level vs those who never have and never will. Just cos we payed £10m for someone doesn’t mean they are even close to that level.

We tried hard for 60 mins but the lack of quality going forward was sad to see because Utd were poor at the back, Maguire is a liability

As for the not given pen changing the game. Probably but in all honesty we should have been a goal down inside the first minute.

Thought formation worth a try, dont think tactics far wrong but we don't have the quality to execute 532 properly. Neco tried hard, bet he looks great in the Championship next year. Lodi is much better as full back than wing back.

Subs anonymous, those crying out for Surridge, he aint a PL level striker. I hope nobody is saying we should have brought on x or y and that would have changed it because it really wouldn’t.

If we go down and I am 90% certain we will, it is because of results vs Bournemouth and Everton, not taking chances vs Chelsea and Wolves, not playing for a draw vs Newcastle and of course the away form. It wasn’t because of today.

Would a different manager have changed any of the above? No idea but I remain Cooper in.

I don’t agree about Navas, I think he is the worst keeper we’ve had for some time. 

Can’t kick
Scared to come off his line
Often pushes shots back into play

[Paplane]

MGW should have come off at half time- his flicks are atarting to really piss me off. Don’t think it’s lack of effort from players at all…

Yep, its as if he thinks we can only do something if he's tricky or clever. How about doing the basics right. Receiving the ball under pressure, controlling it and passing in to a team mate as a simple pass.

[wassy04]

Tricky post: So his tactics last season were poor also?

How about, we were beaten by a team that spent £250M last season alone and that isnt including the many other players who were already on their books?

Yes today we were made to look like schoolboys playing against men. That is the gulf between us smaller, less attractive sides and the big 6.

But I am sick and tired of seeing and hearing the same old negativity week after week after week.

Tricky, last season we were playing in the Championship a much lower standard then the PL, also as regards internationals and correct me if I am wrong but all but Surridge that played today are current or recent internationals. We have also spent the thick end of £180 million, its down to coaching and SC and his backroom staff inexperience at this level.

International football is a not a way to judge if a player is any good. If you're getting games for one of the top countries then fair enough but Wales, Senegal, Scotland, Switzerland are not hard to get in to.

Dont think thats right Wassy. And we have a few Brazilians too anyway! I agree the prem is a real test but there's no disputing we have 'some' quality players who have performed away from Forest.

Kouyate, Boly, Aurier are the only players we have that have previously performed well in the Premier League, plus Shelvey and Wood. The rest are all unproven in this league which is really hard to adjust to. The three above are all injured!

Freuler openly admitted he struggled with the pace. Who are these other players that have performed well in a comparable setting? For me I think it just shows how high the standard of the Premier league. 

By the way I'm not writing off the whole team either, some I don't think will make it in the Prem. I do think the likes of Danilo, MGW, Niakhate, Lodi etc have potential in this league and some I would really expect to step up if they get another year in the league.

It happens though, look at Di Maria for example. One of the best players abroad, struggled massively in the UK. There's tons of examples, it's hard to adjust. 

I guess that's why Shelvey/Wood were so disappointing.