Current Players Thread

[Salvatore Matrecano]

I am 99% sure there is more to the OBrien situation than Cooper simply not rating him, think you have even hinted at it yourself?

As to who is being kept out of the squad. Other than OBrien, just Cook and Lyle Taylor neither of whom are anywhere near Premier League level.

[ozzyten10]

The whole obrien and toffolo thing is a bit weird. Did cooper want them? Did they piss someone off? There was the initial hold up when signing, then both tried to be bombed off in January - it’s just odd…

[wassy04]

I am 99% sure there is more to the OBrien situation than Cooper simply not rating him, think you have even hinted at it yourself?

As to who is being kept out of the squad. Other than OBrien, just Cook and Lyle Taylor neither of whom are anywhere near Premier League level.

There was a big rumour of a bust up after the Leicester game with one of the other players, been referenced on here a few times I believe. I guess as a club you don't really want stories like that getting out, not going to improve his resale value.

[Madforit]

Well we were actually talking about Surridge being included when he never ever gets a game at the expense of O'Brien who in the absence of Yates and Kouyate could have come in useful. What is even more baffling is that O'Brien was let go and replaced with Shelvey.

Exactly we should never have let O'Brien go for Shelvey, nor should they have brought in Wood, both have failed to deliver.

[McDurban]

LOB for Shelvey simply does not make sense with hindsight. Only Navas, Felipe and Danilo have improved the squad since January.

[wassy04]

LOB for Shelvey simply does not make sense with hindsight. Only Navas, Felipe and Danilo have improved the squad since January.

If there was a massive falling out as alluded to above, what are you meant to do?

Wasn't there also a strong rumour Surridge was kicking off for not getting gametime to force a move too?

[wassy04]

This whole Surridge/O'Brien thing is starting to irritate me. Just because the replacements didn't work out, does not make those two players amazing, neither would be playing regardless whether it was due to on field or off field issues.

The Chris Wood thing is probably Cooper's biggest failing although we'll never fully know as he got injured. A very one-dimensional player that needed to play in a certain way, we either needed to change style or not buy him. Ironically I bet Dyche would've loved to get his hands on him! (An option for next year to offload perhaps)

Shelvey though, I don't see how his reckless tackling and mistakes can be on Cooper aside from selecting him at all.

[Mcforest]

Well we all know i like stats and algorithms based on players, formations etc. Well since my pal has is working for one of these new stat companies and has done a lot of work on the Newcastle side. I decided to pester him to let the system run a team on forest to see what it came out with. It used data on each player/ manager/ club / fans / past success and a lot of other stuff over a 3 year period and this is what it believe we should be playing. 

Just to note i've made it real simple as it has done partnerships, players coming in and the changes across the set up (example Felipe out so Boly comes in but that also means Lodi and Aurier are replaced with Biancone and Williams), passing patterns, build up and movements, pressing points etc. 

I'm just using it as a discussion point and i bit of fun because really on paper it is a nice looking team which should be able to control a lot of games (the algorithm was showing if we had this team at the start of the season and could play week in week out our average possession score should be 58%) and create overloads as well as retain the ball better than we have seen this year. For me the fault of why it hasn't worked it down to so many factors this year: break in rhythm in the games (world cup just as we were picking up), injuries and the amount of injuries, adjustments to the league, Players who were going to give us the experience not performing, start of preseason training. But that said i do believe now that we are settling down a bit next year if we can keep as many of these players as possible we are going to see a different team.

With the ball

            Henderson

Niakhate   Felipe    Aurier

           Lodi Mangala

Scarpa MGW Yates Johnson

               Taiwo

Without ball

              Henderson

Lodi  Niakhate  Felipe  Aurier

               Mangala

         Scarpa MGW Yates
                        
                                        Johnson
                   Taiwo


Second team if interested that came out not using any current players from first set up.

Navas

Mckenna Boly Worrall

Kouyate Biancone

Williams Freular Danilo Surridge

Wood

A quick few finding you could say is that Freular is seen statistically as the swap for MGW and chance creator. Biancone has excellent stats from 2 years ago. Defence is not looking like our strongest point in the team on back ups.

[johntel]

This whole Surridge/O'Brien thing is starting to irritate me. Just because the replacements didn't work out, does not make those two players amazing, neither would be playing regardless whether it was due to on field or off field issues.

The Chris Wood thing is probably Cooper's biggest failing although we'll never fully know as he got injured. A very one-dimensional player that needed to play in a certain way, we either needed to change style or not buy him. Ironically I bet Dyche would've loved to get his hands on him! (An option for next year to offload perhaps)

Shelvey though, I don't see how his reckless tackling and mistakes can be on Cooper aside from selecting him at all.

All teams make reckless tackles, get silly bookings, give away stupid goals etc.  However the more pressure the team is under the more likely they are to happen. That's why low block tactics aren't good in the long run. They mean the goals you score are often 'good' breakaway goals rather than due to capitalising on defensive mistakes - but ultimately you score less goals. 

In a good team Shelvey's defensive limitations (understatement) would be counterbalanced by his extra threat going forward, but with the current approach it's madness to play him. 

Personally I would use Colback a lot more - he's not good enough against the top teams - but against the other poor teams he's much more effective.

[wassy04]

This whole Surridge/O'Brien thing is starting to irritate me. Just because the replacements didn't work out, does not make those two players amazing, neither would be playing regardless whether it was due to on field or off field issues.

The Chris Wood thing is probably Cooper's biggest failing although we'll never fully know as he got injured. A very one-dimensional player that needed to play in a certain way, we either needed to change style or not buy him. Ironically I bet Dyche would've loved to get his hands on him! (An option for next year to offload perhaps)

Shelvey though, I don't see how his reckless tackling and mistakes can be on Cooper aside from selecting him at all.

All teams make reckless tackles, get silly bookings, give away stupid goals etc.  However the more pressure the team is under the more likely they are to happen. That's why low block tactics aren't good in the long run. They mean the goals you score are often 'good' breakaway goals rather than due to capitalising on defensive mistakes - but ultimately you score less goals. 

In a good team Shelvey's defensive limitations (understatement) would be counterbalanced by his extra threat going forward, but with the current approach it's madness to play him. 

Personally I would use Colback a lot more - he's not good enough against the top teams - but against the other poor teams he's much more effective.

His consistency for me is higher than Freuler or Shelvey. I understand his athleticism and ability is lower at this point in his career though. Him and Toff whenever called upon have not let us down, they know their limits and I think that's a valuable skill.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

This is the whole point for me. Us fans go “Pick player X in formation Y equals we will win. Cooper always gets it wrong so manager Z will improve is for sure”.

It wont because you two are talking about playing Colback and Toffolo who are good honest pros, never let us down but are nowhere near the standard of the opposition. Same goes for OBrien and Surridge.

When the experienced pros are not performing (Shelvey) or are limited (Freuler) or injured (Lodi) its no surprise we get beaten.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Well we all know i like stats and algorithms based on players, formations etc. Well since my pal has is working for one of these new stat companies and has done a lot of work on the Newcastle side. I decided to pester him to let the system run a team on forest to see what it came out with. It used data on each player/ manager/ club / fans / past success and a lot of other stuff over a 3 year period and this is what it believe we should be playing. 

Just to note i've made it real simple as it has done partnerships, players coming in and the changes across the set up (example Felipe out so Boly comes in but that also means Lodi and Aurier are replaced with Biancone and Williams), passing patterns, build up and movements, pressing points etc. 

I'm just using it as a discussion point and i bit of fun because really on paper it is a nice looking team which should be able to control a lot of games (the algorithm was showing if we had this team at the start of the season and could play week in week out our average possession score should be 58%) and create overloads as well as retain the ball better than we have seen this year. For me the fault of why it hasn't worked it down to so many factors this year: break in rhythm in the games (world cup just as we were picking up), injuries and the amount of injuries, adjustments to the league, Players who were going to give us the experience not performing, start of preseason training. But that said i do believe now that we are settling down a bit next year if we can keep as many of these players as possible we are going to see a different team.

With the ball

            Henderson

Niakhate   Felipe    Aurier

           Lodi Mangala

Scarpa MGW Yates Johnson

               Taiwo

Without ball

              Henderson

Lodi  Niakhate  Felipe  Aurier

               Mangala

         Scarpa MGW Yates
                        
                                        Johnson
                   Taiwo


Second team if interested that came out not using any current players from first set up.

Navas

Mckenna Boly Worrall

Kouyate Biancone

Williams Freular Danilo Surridge

Wood

A quick few finding you could say is that Freular is seen statistically as the swap for MGW and chance creator. Biancone has excellent stats from 2 years ago. Defence is not looking like our strongest point in the team on back ups.

I like the first team but dont think Mangala is a natural holding midfielder. The one who has played there with other clubs is Shelvey but he has looked so clumsy in the tackle he worries me. Probably just stick Yates there. Not sure how much Forest use stats regardless.