Nottingham Forest - Fulham

[Sausage Roll]

Also, would love to see us play 4-2-3-1 as I agree it would suit this squad and allow Lodi and Neco to play as actual full backs

I wonder if, when everyone is fit, 4-3-3 might suit us best. Something like:

-----------------------------Henderson-------------------------
Williams----Niakhate-------------McKenna------Lodi
------------O'Brien------Kouyate-----Mangala----------
--------------MGW---------Awoniyi-----Dennis------------

Kouyate can be the destroyer and support the back four if needed leaving Mangala and O'Brien to be the more progressive midfielders. Any of the front three can be swapped out with the likes of Johnson, Lingard and Surridge. Likewise the midfielders with Freuler and Yates and the full-backs with Aurier, Richards and Toffolo. Looks good to me on paper but so many of our potential line-ups do.

[Forest1970]

And that my friends is why I've always said we should've started the team rebuild a season or two ago. We should not of relied on loans or loans thats we were not going to buy if we got promoted. Without that agreement to buy certain loans then promotion was always going to be difficult. Getting in 22 new players was again always going to be hard work to get to gel early in the season. Our only hope would be getting the team to play good but still perhaps lose because then its a matter of confidence to get the team beating teams. SC needs to quickly get to know who is going to be his back line wether its 3 or a flat 4 because as the great man Cloughie once said " The opposition can't win if they don't score". My personally think we need to go back to flat back 4 because our full backs are not the quickest.

[Mist From The Trent]

Zinckernagel better than MGW?? Last years team better than this seasons? Very reactionary after a few bad games. Yates should not be starting, never mind being the bloody captain, you can'tfault his effort snd commitment for the team, but he isn't a Premier League starter. He is a yard off the pace mentally and physically. O Brien and Mangala would be my ideal midfield pairing. Both comfortable in possession , both cover a lot of ground and both can pass.
I would be dropping Johnson for a few games and giving Dennis a good run.
Unfortunately, Cooper got it wrong again. We were totally bullied in midfield and too slow at the back.

[Redgirl]

Not starting with O’Brien who IMO has been our best player was a bizarre decision which has cost us points and could possibly cost SC his job if nothing changes. I don’t think a quick return to the Championship will be tolerated by the hierarchy either.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

And that my friends is why I've always said we should've started the team rebuild a season or two ago. We should not of relied on loans or loans thats we were not going to buy if we got promoted. Without that agreement to buy certain loans then promotion was always going to be difficult. Getting in 22 new players was again always going to be hard work to get to gel early in the season. Our only hope would be getting the team to play good but still perhaps lose because then its a matter of confidence to get the team beating teams. SC needs to quickly get to know who is going to be his back line wether its 3 or a flat 4 because as the great man Cloughie once said " The opposition can't win if they don't score". My personally think we need to go back to flat back 4 because our full backs are not the quickest.

Interesting post and it brings me back to something I said a few weeks ago and that is that we were not supposed to go up last season! It sounds crazy doesn't it but it's true and here we are in the Premier League with the manager and team now struggling.

[ozzyten10]

I also feel the heart was ripped out the side. Grabban for example was so respected in the dressing room. The spirit was there for all to see. Garner not being signed was a lack of patience and a mistake. Zink - may have played less but knew the role and I’m sure would have been of value. Samba- massive cult hero and very popular in the dressing room.
We’ve made many very short sighted decisions and I’m not sure if Cooper was on board with all of them.

Still - he deserves his crack at sorting this out and with Villa and Leicester to come - 2 very important games.

[JollyLolly]

Lot of fellow forum members looking back at what might have been or should have been, it matters not as we are in the here and now! I also agree with most on here that it appears SC is looking to use the same playing system with a different group of players who have differing forms of talent to those from last season. He needs to change and adapt quickly instead of persevering with 5 at the back, most teams in the Premier league play a form of 433, I hope he can see this or he will be gone by November or earlier. He is also missing SR which I believe was a big influence during our great run last year and has not been replaced (in my opinion) with the correct type of 1st team coach. The existing playing staff is good enough to be an average side in the league at the very minimum so if SC is unable to make the step-up then the Big Man will surely act. Over to you Sniffer!!!!!!

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Lot of fellow forum members looking back at what might have been or should have been, it matters not as we are in the here and now! I also agree with most on here that it appears SC is looking to use the same playing system with a different group of players who have differing forms of talent to those from last season. He needs to change and adapt quickly instead of persevering with 5 at the back, most teams in the Premier league play a form of 433, I hope he can see this or he will be gone by November or earlier. He is also missing SR which I believe was a big influence during our great run last year and has not been replaced (in my opinion) with the correct type of 1st team coach. The existing playing staff is good enough to be an average side in the league at the very minimum so if SC is unable to make the step-up then the Big Man will surely act. Over to you Sniffer!!!!!!

I find this comment very interesting and before I type what I am about to type I hope that we can discuss it without falling out. After all we are all Forest aren't we?

So what I want to say is this:

Have we overhyped Steve Cooper? Is Steve Cooper really as good a manager as we think he is?
I don't consider him to be very experienced and at PL level he has no experience at all.
He had a couple of decent seasons in the Championship with Swansea but that is about it.
Okay he won the World Cup with England under 17's but Veljko Paunović won the World Cup with Serbia under 20's but he soon got sacked at Reading.
So I am asking a genuine question here have we overhyped Steve Cooper.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

By the way  :off: should be in the SC thread. Soz always wanted to say that to Sniffer!

What you are in effect saying is did Steve just luck out last season? He inherited a squad rather than building it, happened to stumble on Spence, young Brennan in red hot form and a point to prove, a few more loans that were well above average to go with a decent core squad. It just all came together.
But were Swansea fans correct, he was limited with them and has been found out this season?

Im saying no. I cannot accept last season was a fluke. He had a rock bottom squad which I reckon was average by Champ standards with a few decent players in there and he built them into a team.
The team bit is the key here and why I remain disappointed we didnt try harder to build on what we have.  I dont see anyone else making 22 strangers gel into a team any quicker. Whichever way you spin it and even if our owner has spent a fortune we still have one of the weakest squads in the league on paper. To survive we need Cooper to work his magic and rekindle the spirit of last season.  
We tried for over 2 decades and Ive forgotten how many mangers and failed miserably lets not try it yet again.

[zicorice]

Lot of fellow forum members looking back at what might have been or should have been, it matters not as we are in the here and now! I also agree with most on here that it appears SC is looking to use the same playing system with a different group of players who have differing forms of talent to those from last season. He needs to change and adapt quickly instead of persevering with 5 at the back, most teams in the Premier league play a form of 433, I hope he can see this or he will be gone by November or earlier. He is also missing SR which I believe was a big influence during our great run last year and has not been replaced (in my opinion) with the correct type of 1st team coach. The existing playing staff is good enough to be an average side in the league at the very minimum so if SC is unable to make the step-up then the Big Man will surely act. Over to you Sniffer!!!!!!

I find this comment very interesting and before I type what I am about to type I hope that we can discuss it without falling out. After all we are all Forest aren't we?

So what I want to say is this:

Have we overhyped Steve Cooper? Is Steve Cooper really as good a manager as we think he is?
I don't consider him to be very experienced and at PL level he has no experience at all.
He had a couple of decent seasons in the Championship with Swansea but that is about it.
Okay he won the World Cup with England under 17's but Veljko Paunović won the World Cup with Serbia under 20's but he soon got sacked at Reading.
So I am asking a genuine question here have we overhyped Steve Cooper.

I'd say not. It was going to take a special talent to overcome 23 seasons of prmarily abject failure. Cooper did it. Many "proven," people tried and failed.

He is a great coach now being tested to the limit. Not just coaching, but Man-management.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Thanks fellas I appreciate your mature adult replies to a delicate subject.

Now I am waiting for SM to tell me off again :cool:

[BadDog]

I came away from that just expecting to lose future games now, bar maybe Leicester.

We need to improve so much I actually think we are out of our depth, unless something drastic changes.