Rate the Transfer Window

[Strawberry Avenger]

Looking at the window now I give it 10/10 for outgoings and 6.5/10 for incomings. We have 3 wildcards in Silva, Drager and spence (if he arrives).
Lowe, horvath, garner, odeja, tu tu and zinkernackle will do well I think and give us some width from fullback and progressive play from deep midfield.

I couldn't vote 6.5, but I would have done.

10 for outgoings.

6.5 for incomings.  (We were sluggish to start, didn't have key positions filled with players eg. Fullback (shocking to start a season without them) and a striker, slow to get players over the line, we still need a striker but most egregious was the lack of fit transfer outfield players for the 1st four games and the Derby game, costing 14 points.)

C+.  Can do better.  6.5.

If you count the fat trimming and the arrival 9 including Spence?  Overall?  I might say 7.

The window came 'above average/good' in the end (though we'll have to see if we get wins to say that with any conviction.)

Fat trimmed.  Squad rebalanced.  Mission ALMOST accomplished (no striker.).  6.5 - 7.

SA.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Yes I can imagine the uproar if we signed a player from St Johnstone.
We might (I dont honestly know yet) have added a few bits of quality of our own.
The 3 right backs thing I agree with you, lack of striker is worrying but overall we just might be OK.

[Strawberry Avenger]

We have brought in 3 right backs.... 3. Where does that leave fin back arguably our most consistent performer over the games he has played.

More oly cast offs.

Players with injury history.

Hurried and panic buys.

I’m willing to give the signings support and hope they come good but I think we could have done a lot better.

And yes we may have kept Worrall, Johnson and mighton all players that have been a part of a team at the wrong end of the table. We needed to add strength to these players which whilst I hope we have I won’t hold my breath.

I wrote the positives out this morning, so did Tricky and one or two others. I accept the bad points we all do butIn my opinion of you dont accept  there are some positives you are being narrow minded.
So do you disagree with any of the below?


Positives
For the first time in 10 seasons we havent sold a key asset to the team.
We have massively reduced the wage bill which will reduce the need to sell in future
We have brought in 8 maybe 9 new bodies- more than many suggested at the start of the summer.
We have significantly reduced the age of the squad, no more 30 somethings on ridiculous contracts.
We have added some genuine pace at long last, one of the biggest problems with last seasons team.
Midfield creativity looks far stronger now.

There's an unwillingness from a few to accept or understand the reality of you either sell and use the funds to strengthen or you accept a low budget. However if you're not getting great offers due to a depressed market then surely its better to hang tight and wait for things to pick up. 

Can't have it both ways.

I don't think people are frustrated with that.  I know I'm not.  The club doesn't need to spend millions to keep me happy.  They don't need to spend millions to get good players either.  Blackburn just signed a quality young one for 500k.  Preston a good one from St Johnstone for a small fee.

The reason we're struggling with a budget though, is because we keep making the same mistakes.  We're currently paying salaries to 6 professional right-backs.  

That's why we keep finding ourselves short.  That type of business right there.

SA.  :cool:

[Strawberry Avenger]

Yes I can imagine the uproar if we signed a player from St Johnstone.
We might (I dont honestly know yet) have added a few bits of quality of our own.
The 3 right backs thing I agree with you, lack of striker is worrying but overall we just might be OK.

I'm glad you edited that from 'Stroker' to Striker.  Heh, heh, heh...

SA.

[wassy04]

We have brought in 3 right backs.... 3. Where does that leave fin back arguably our most consistent performer over the games he has played.

More oly cast offs.

Players with injury history.

Hurried and panic buys.

I’m willing to give the signings support and hope they come good but I think we could have done a lot better.

And yes we may have kept Worrall, Johnson and mighton all players that have been a part of a team at the wrong end of the table. We needed to add strength to these players which whilst I hope we have I won’t hold my breath.

I wrote the positives out this morning, so did Tricky and one or two others. I accept the bad points we all do butIn my opinion of you dont accept  there are some positives you are being narrow minded.
So do you disagree with any of the below?


Positives
For the first time in 10 seasons we havent sold a key asset to the team.
We have massively reduced the wage bill which will reduce the need to sell in future
We have brought in 8 maybe 9 new bodies- more than many suggested at the start of the summer.
We have significantly reduced the age of the squad, no more 30 somethings on ridiculous contracts.
We have added some genuine pace at long last, one of the biggest problems with last seasons team.
Midfield creativity looks far stronger now.

There's an unwillingness from a few to accept or understand the reality of you either sell and use the funds to strengthen or you accept a low budget. However if you're not getting great offers due to a depressed market then surely its better to hang tight and wait for things to pick up. 

Can't have it both ways.

I don't think people are frustrated with that.  I know I'm not.  The club doesn't need to spend millions to keep me happy.  They don't need to spend millions to get good players either.  Blackburn just signed a quality young one for 500k.  Preston a good one from St Johnstone for a small fee.

The reason we're struggling with a budget though, is because we keep making the same mistakes.  We're currently paying salaries to 6 professional right-backs.  

That's why we keep finding ourselves short.  That type of business right there.

I wasn't referring to you in that post.

Whilst that is technically true, Fin Back and Richardson will be on negligible salaries right now and as academy players have intrinsic FFP value.

Then Tutu is debatably backup/first choice LB and is only on loan and won't be a large outlay. Same with spence who's also a loan and I'm not even going to mention Jenkinson as he is just not even close to being good enough to be considered an option as a backup.

We've essentially got 3 RBs, one of which is basically cover/perhaps the starting LB and will give us options should we choose to switch to 3 at the back. I'm guessing the RBs could be utilised at one of the three CBs in that scenario ala Reece James or Kyle Walker. Obviously I don't know much about them.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Yeah Ive done that typo before its a tad embarrassing!

[SSM]

We have brought in 3 right backs.... 3. Where does that leave fin back arguably our most consistent performer over the games he has played.

More oly cast offs.

Players with injury history.

Hurried and panic buys.

I’m willing to give the signings support and hope they come good but I think we could have done a lot better.

And yes we may have kept Worrall, Johnson and mighton all players that have been a part of a team at the wrong end of the table. We needed to add strength to these players which whilst I hope we have I won’t hold my breath.

I wrote the positives out this morning, so did Tricky and one or two others. I accept the bad points we all do butIn my opinion of you dont accept  there are some positives you are being narrow minded.
So do you disagree with any of the below?


Positives
For the first time in 10 seasons we havent sold a key asset to the team.
We have massively reduced the wage bill which will reduce the need to sell in future
We have brought in 8 maybe 9 new bodies- more than many suggested at the start of the summer.
We have significantly reduced the age of the squad, no more 30 somethings on ridiculous contracts.
We have added some genuine pace at long last, one of the biggest problems with last seasons team.
Midfield creativity looks far stronger now.

There's an unwillingness from a few to accept or understand the reality of you either sell and use the funds to strengthen or you accept a low budget. However if you're not getting great offers due to a depressed market then surely its better to hang tight and wait for things to pick up. 

Can't have it both ways.

I don't think people are frustrated with that.  I know I'm not.  The club doesn't need to spend millions to keep me happy.  They don't need to spend millions to get good players either.  Blackburn just signed a quality young one for 500k.  Preston a good one from St Johnstone for a small fee.

The reason we're struggling with a budget though, is because we keep making the same mistakes.  We're currently paying salaries to 6 professional right-backs.  

That's why we keep finding ourselves short.  That type of business right there.

I wasn't referring to you in that post.

Whilst that is technically true, Fin Back and Richardson will be on negligible salaries right now and as academy players have intrinsic FFP value.

Then Tutu is debatably backup/first choice LB and is only on loan and won't be a large outlay. Same with spence who's also a loan and I'm not even going to mention Jenkinson as he is just not even close to being good enough to be considered an option as a backup.

We've essentially got 3 RBs, one of which is basically cover/perhaps the starting LB and will give us options should we choose to switch to 3 at the back. I'm guessing the RBs could be utilised at one of the three CBs in that scenario ala Reece James or Kyle Walker. Obviously I don't know much about them.

If we have signed Tutu to play left-back, then that just emphasises the problem doesn't it?  He will cost a loan fee and salary though.  Prem clubs don't just loan players out to play anymore, it's a multi-million pound business.  

Fin Back has just had a brilliant pre-season, and then showed real promise in pro games.  We've rewarded him by signing 3 players to now play ahead of him.  If we see him again this season, i'll be very surprised.  Growth; stumped.

[wassy04]

I wrote the positives out this morning, so did Tricky and one or two others. I accept the bad points we all do butIn my opinion of you dont accept  there are some positives you are being narrow minded.
So do you disagree with any of the below?


Positives
For the first time in 10 seasons we havent sold a key asset to the team.
We have massively reduced the wage bill which will reduce the need to sell in future
We have brought in 8 maybe 9 new bodies- more than many suggested at the start of the summer.
We have significantly reduced the age of the squad, no more 30 somethings on ridiculous contracts.
We have added some genuine pace at long last, one of the biggest problems with last seasons team.
Midfield creativity looks far stronger now.

There's an unwillingness from a few to accept or understand the reality of you either sell and use the funds to strengthen or you accept a low budget. However if you're not getting great offers due to a depressed market then surely its better to hang tight and wait for things to pick up. 

Can't have it both ways.

I don't think people are frustrated with that.  I know I'm not.  The club doesn't need to spend millions to keep me happy.  They don't need to spend millions to get good players either.  Blackburn just signed a quality young one for 500k.  Preston a good one from St Johnstone for a small fee.

The reason we're struggling with a budget though, is because we keep making the same mistakes.  We're currently paying salaries to 6 professional right-backs.  

That's why we keep finding ourselves short.  That type of business right there.

I wasn't referring to you in that post.

Whilst that is technically true, Fin Back and Richardson will be on negligible salaries right now and as academy players have intrinsic FFP value.

Then Tutu is debatably backup/first choice LB and is only on loan and won't be a large outlay. Same with spence who's also a loan and I'm not even going to mention Jenkinson as he is just not even close to being good enough to be considered an option as a backup.

We've essentially got 3 RBs, one of which is basically cover/perhaps the starting LB and will give us options should we choose to switch to 3 at the back. I'm guessing the RBs could be utilised at one of the three CBs in that scenario ala Reece James or Kyle Walker. Obviously I don't know much about them.

If we have signed Tutu to play left-back, then that just emphasises the problem doesn't it?  He will cost a loan fee and salary though.  Prem clubs don't just loan players out to play anymore, it's a multi-million pound business.  

Fin Back has just had a brilliant pre-season, and then showed real promise in pro games.  We've rewarded him by signing 3 players to now play ahead of him.  If we see him again this season, i'll be very surprised.  Growth; stumped.

He's looks decent sure but has he really looked good enough to play regularly this season? Standing out when you're in losing 4 in a row isn't exactly difficult.

I do get your point completely don't get me wrong, I've no idea why we signed Spence. Perhaps they didn't expect to get the Spence deal done so signed Drager as a backup. Can always just move him on for minor FFP gains which we keep getting away with! 

Anyway just wanted to point out that you were exaggerating a bit that's all. It's a shame we didn't send Back and Richardson out on loan really. It's not the end of the world having loads of right backs better than having none

[Alf]

SSM hits the main issue for me - not addressing some key areas. No established striker/target man, when we've needed one for 3 years is crackers. We've also bought in a lot of players who are still clearly learning their trade, which leaves us short on experience and nouse. Something we're gonna need for this relegation dogfight (you only have to look at what signing a player like Paul McKenna can do for a team).

The fact that Vrentzos is clearly involved again when he shouldn't be anywhere near transfers is unacceptable too. I have no idea why we bring in people like AK, MON, Hughton and Murphy then some power-crazed wannabee football-manager accountant type feels the need to butt in at every turn and interfere constantly. I was happy for him to be a spreadsheet board member from afar, but he clearly can't help himself and has not done that, so I'm firmly in the #VrentzosOut camp. I hope that if there is any fan backlash to more bad results that's where the anger is directed and not EM.

Positives are there though we've moved a lot of deadwood on (despite then signing what look to be more deadwood using the same philosophies as we used in previous windows) and we do look to have signed some potentially good players too.


Individually I'd say:

Zinckernagel - looks a good player and a good loan.

Horvath - not seen anywhere near enough of him, but Brice does need competition and US fans continually praise him, so I'm happy with that one.

Tutu - Mixed bag. Like the look of the player, but stupid to rush him back from a long lay off so quickly (blame Hughton there). Would have sooner he signed permanent so we could spend a year shaping him up properly for the long term, but a years loan seems odd. Best I'm hoping for is some key contributions later in the season.

Spence - Versatile FB cover. Something we do need so worth signing.

Drager - Ugggghhhh. Exactly the type of signing which I didn't want to see happen. Overkill in the FB position, didn't play many games last year, undermines Murphy.

Silva - Don't hold much hope for him at all. Injury/health issues at a very young age, looks awful on his highlights vid. Seems to me like we've moved one Da Costa level player out for another in. Again connected to the agents we've used before.

Garner - Good work getting him back. We all know he's a good player at this level.

Lowe - Reaks of a plan Z signing. Know a fair bit about him from my Sheff lads. Athletic, good going forward, but crap at defending. Not sure that fits Hughton's MO. Those judgements were made in the Prem though so maybe a step down to the Champ may be different.

Ojeda - Really like the look of this kid and the signing which excites me the most. Looks built for the league. On the flipside I really don't expect him to hit the ground running. At 21 it's a lot to take on board moving country and to a league like ours. Think he'll come good but will take a bit of time.

Keeping Worrall & BJ is obviously a big boost, so that's a positive as well.

So very mixed bag for me. I voted 4/10, mainly because individual players are pointless if there's no full context to the drive and whilst ever Vrentzos is interfering there won't be. But after writing it all out I wouldn't argue against it being a 5/10 window either.

I really hope that Murphs stays and is given the Jan window to operate with total freedom (in context of our budget of course). A part of me can't help feel that the club is being shaped for a sale.

[Uwantlee]

I wrote the positives out this morning, so did Tricky and one or two others. I accept the bad points we all do butIn my opinion of you dont accept  there are some positives you are being narrow minded.
So do you disagree with any of the below?


Positives
For the first time in 10 seasons we havent sold a key asset to the team.
We have massively reduced the wage bill which will reduce the need to sell in future
We have brought in 8 maybe 9 new bodies- more than many suggested at the start of the summer.
We have significantly reduced the age of the squad, no more 30 somethings on ridiculous contracts.
We have added some genuine pace at long last, one of the biggest problems with last seasons team.
Midfield creativity looks far stronger now.

There's an unwillingness from a few to accept or understand the reality of you either sell and use the funds to strengthen or you accept a low budget. However if you're not getting great offers due to a depressed market then surely its better to hang tight and wait for things to pick up. 

Can't have it both ways.

I don't think people are frustrated with that.  I know I'm not.  The club doesn't need to spend millions to keep me happy.  They don't need to spend millions to get good players either.  Blackburn just signed a quality young one for 500k.  Preston a good one from St Johnstone for a small fee.

The reason we're struggling with a budget though, is because we keep making the same mistakes.  We're currently paying salaries to 6 professional right-backs.  

That's why we keep finding ourselves short.  That type of business right there.

I wasn't referring to you in that post.

Whilst that is technically true, Fin Back and Richardson will be on negligible salaries right now and as academy players have intrinsic FFP value.

Then Tutu is debatably backup/first choice LB and is only on loan and won't be a large outlay. Same with spence who's also a loan and I'm not even going to mention Jenkinson as he is just not even close to being good enough to be considered an option as a backup.

We've essentially got 3 RBs, one of which is basically cover/perhaps the starting LB and will give us options should we choose to switch to 3 at the back. I'm guessing the RBs could be utilised at one of the three CBs in that scenario ala Reece James or Kyle Walker. Obviously I don't know much about them.

If we have signed Tutu to play left-back, then that just emphasises the problem doesn't it?  He will cost a loan fee and salary though.  Prem clubs don't just loan players out to play anymore, it's a multi-million pound business.  

Fin Back has just had a brilliant pre-season, and then showed real promise in pro games.  We've rewarded him by signing 3 players to now play ahead of him.  If we see him again this season, i'll be very surprised.  Growth; stumped.

Whilst I accept there have been Positives and I am happy with the reduced wage bill and the loss of garbage these are all problems brought on by the current regime.

We may have added pace but we have also continued to over balance the squad... too many cm... too many rb... not enough up top.

We have still managed to bring in dross from oly, from the same agents or linked with Greek teams a strategy that has previously worked so well.

We have panicked at the end and made some odd decisions again. Spence.... why? We have back as a young rb why develop one for someone else and send him back. We have Tutu who has serious injury history but we thought why not... gets injured straight away.

I have previous posted that I accept for the time being we are a selling club... I am OK with that. Had we sold Worrall or Johnson I would have accepted that as long as the money be used wisely. Previosy it hasn't been used well at all that has been the issue. I certainly wouldn't have kicked up a fuss about them leaving.

I'm also not saying that all the signings will be bad there just appears to be very little strategy in place. Earlier in the window the noises were good... targeting promising players in the right positions... ended very differently.

I'm just voicing my opinion. I will support the signings, get behind them and the team regardless and whilst yes there are positives I also believe we could have done more, done better.

As always I am happy to be proven wrong on the signings as nothing would make me happier than forest doing well. And as always, reducing the wage bill is all well and good but whilst the team continues to go backwards and struggle in the league the off field goings on become less important... progress needs to be whole... across the board... after 4 years you would have expected to see progress within the whe club not just behind the scenes.

[Largo Latacunga]

Garner and Zinckernagel excellent. Lowe ok, question marks over defensive abilities at previous clubs. Horvath good backup. Silva and Drager not impressed, more Greek league filler. Spence bizarre, using one of loan options on another RB who is defensively suspect by most accounts. Ojeda, intriguing but think he will need a lot of time to bed in. Osei Tutu, looked promising but how often will he be fit?

Overall 5, ragbag of a transfer window with no cohesive strategy, striker is a huge worry.

[Madforit]

I'm happy that we haven't had to sell in order to bring in players(in this window)
and to be honest I really like Zinckernagel and Garner I happen to think that they will really add quality to the team, as for the new guy's I know very little about them but who knows, they could be the eggs that make the cake(and I love the cake) :D

I know they are not what some of us wanted to see being brought into the club, but it is what it is, and they will have my support when they wear the garibaldi, let's hope and I know it's a big hope that come the January window we see some quality players being added to the squad.