Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager

[Strawberry Avenger]

Mighten was getting regular minutes, and had just had his first start, before Hughton arrived, and had looked decent. Better than what else we had.
Hughton relegated him to not playing in favour of more experienced players who didn't perform. Not a minute for 12 matches.

Mbe Soh started Sabri's last 2 matches then nothing for 14 matches under Hughton, while the more experienced Figuieredo gave a goal away on a regular basis. In fact Mbe Soh only got a look in because Figs served a suspension, and was quickly out again.

Garner would never have been here if it was up to Hughton. He wanted Gosling, another guy on big wages past his best to go with Knockaert & Murphy. We only got Garner 'cos Gosling turned us down.

His previous record with youth, see Brighton, was nothing short of appalling.

Great that we now have a team in place to plan our transfers, including signing promising young players, but inconsistent with Hughton.

And the next big part of the puzzle is how we get them to play. But again, what has been suggested by Dane Murphy, and what the fans want to watch, is inconsistent with Hughton.

It seems obvious what we need to do. Must we waste time?

Totally agree.  He just seems to not want to use younger players.

He described Joe Worrall as a 'young player' and he's 25 in Jan.

I'm pretty neutral on Hughton, but how old was his signing James Garner?

Or Will Swan who he gave his debut to?

Carvalho's played most pre-season games so far, and then you've the likes of Gabriel, Fernandes, Richardson, Konate, Fornah all given chances to impress in pre-season too.

That doesn't strike me as someone who doesn't want to use young players.

Aye.  It's a complete myth Hughton doesn't use young players.  As noted by your own post.

SA.

[PsychoStanleyStone]

Mighten was getting regular minutes, and had just had his first start, before Hughton arrived, and had looked decent. Better than what else we had.
Hughton relegated him to not playing in favour of more experienced players who didn't perform. Not a minute for 12 matches.

Mbe Soh started Sabri's last 2 matches then nothing for 14 matches under Hughton, while the more experienced Figuieredo gave a goal away on a regular basis. In fact Mbe Soh only got a look in because Figs served a suspension, and was quickly out again.

Garner would never have been here if it was up to Hughton. He wanted Gosling, another guy on big wages past his best to go with Knockaert & Murphy. We only got Garner 'cos Gosling turned us down.

His previous record with youth, see Brighton, was nothing short of appalling.

Great that we now have a team in place to plan our transfers, including signing promising young players, but inconsistent with Hughton.

And the next big part of the puzzle is how we get them to play. But again, what has been suggested by Dane Murphy, and what the fans want to watch, is inconsistent with Hughton.

It seems obvious what we need to do. Must we waste time?

Totally agree.  He just seems to not want to use younger players.

He described Joe Worrall as a 'young player' and he's 25 in Jan.

I'm pretty neutral on Hughton, but how old was his signing James Garner?

Or Will Swan who he gave his debut to?

Carvalho's played most pre-season games so far, and then you've the likes of Gabriel, Fernandes, Richardson, Konate, Fornah all given chances to impress in pre-season too.

That doesn't strike me as someone who doesn't want to use young players.

Aye.  It's a complete myth Hughton doesn't use young players.  As noted by your own post.

SA.

hi SA, well, i just read back through those posts, come on, they are all arguments that Chris Hughton hasn't really been a catalyst in young players breaking into the squad, but stunted their progress in favour of seasoned pro's, the only shining example of playing youngsters is in pre season friendlies when a sort of lack of, if not total abscence of 'proven' players.

Besides the arguments above, Hughton is renowned, like in his dna to not introduce players or make changes during games.

The times he has made changes, i mean he gave Swan his debut v Swansea, it was an awful situation, the lad didn't get a kick and in a system that made him look diabolical.

Many of Mighten's were 87th minute appearances more to run down the clock.

Certainly no recollections of Hughton making any changes to go and win the game, not sure but i think Swan was introduced when we were getting well beaten.

Also no recollections of any situation where Hughton turned around a game or gave youngsters a positive introduction.

I think the 5 subs was an opportunity which Hughton ignored.

Hughton, besides 'being strongish at the back' in every other department was diabolical last season and really has to improve, yes a few good performances, i am happy with good performances they bode well for the future, in fact anything good for the future and building for the future is all i would really like to see and hopefully survive.

As it is we are in a weaker position at the moment than prior to the start of last season, not all CH's fault but let's face it there was little future planning and squad development last season, or certainly seems to be the case, the positives were youngsters sent out on loan and Mighten but that is others involved and the players themselves finding their own motivation.

This is why scoring goals helps so much with squad development youngsters get introduced into incredibly positive situations and becomes a catalyst for success, this is all i really want to see and think is what was missing last season, tense hanging on (usually for a draw!) or lost games doesn't really help anyone.

[Strawberry Avenger]

"hi SA, well, i just read back through those posts"

Ah, 'Psycho.'

Hello.  I don't have to 'read' all those posts.  They're pretty much the same from months ago.  (For example, I just have to read one of your posts to 'get it.'  Why waste time reading all of them?). Just the same tropes repeated.  

Mighten.  A player with limited appearances under Sabri.  Hughton has been the catalyst of Mighten's development in this past season.  One of the few 'high' spots in a season torpedoed long before Hughton rocked up.  He's also featured heavily in pre-season.  And clearly Hughton has brought him on. And yes. Because he's young? He'd be taken out of games. Put in late. Start some. Mighten would have one good game then one so-so game struggling with Championship de-rigor. That's youth. Worrall was the same. He was up and down at Forest and at Rangers.

Yates.  Hughton has stuck with him.  (As have previous managers.).  A developing young player.  Hughton has coached his ball playing to better effect this pre-season.

Garner.  Very young player.  Was pivotal in winning the ball.  Passing the ball.  And contributing goals.  A Hughton pick.  A guiding light of January's transfer business.  And the kind of calibre of player we can expect Hughton to sign.  One with endeavour.  And honesty in their play.

Swan.  Not quite ready for Championship 1st team.  But Hughton handed him his chance to impress.

And this pre-season?

All the young players that were on loan?  Have been given chances.  Fornah (whose has done decently, clearly under the mandate of Hughton to spray the ball about.).  Car'.  Written off my some (me included).  Still a young-ish player.  Given yet more chances by Hughton and done 'ok.'  Johnson.  Straight into the pre-season schedule to great effect.  Fullback.  Gabriel.  Promising performances for a 'still' rookie fullback. And another whose name begins with a K? I forget his name. But Hughton did seem impressed by him.

...and the CH pairings?  Aren't 'old' by any stretch.  A relatively young pairing.

So. Yes. A complete myth that Hughton doesn't include, develop or bring in young players. A laundry list of Academy players have 'starred' this pre-season. Which is very much in line with the new CEO's policy of greater 1st team and Academy integration. And Forest have actually won pre-season games with Hughton AND young players this year. Unlike the complete capitulation to the likes of Oldham in times gone by.

There's a narrative of trying to hang 'survival' football at Hughton's door.  But in truth, the pre-season and recruitment from last year weren't his.  The start to the season weren't his.  Forest needed shoring up at the back.  And Hughton did that.  Very few teams make top six with such poor recruitment, poor pre-seasons and poor starts.  Losing 6 of their initial games. You play the brand of football recruitment dictates. And had Hughton attempted Warburton free flowing tippy tappy football with soft fullbacks (not his signings...) then Forest would have gone down. Not recuiting decent strikers over the last two years? Not Hughton's doing. Ask Ventros what he was doing. Or Sabri. Or perhaps we can pin the lack of goal scoring on Hughton and he can faith heal Grabban who had 3(!) injuries last year and scored the goals you'd expect because of that. Lyle Taylor. Not a target man. Did Hughton bring him in? Forest's wingers. The 'always' inconsistent Ameobi and the injury ravaged Lolley. Again. Recruitment failed to address this last Summer.

Any Forest fan from Clough and Taylor's era should know that you need good players.  And last year, Forest didn't have them.  They went for over paid journey men and at least two had suffered significant injuries and had not played for a year and turned up at Forest unfit.

Forest? They'd flattered to deceive under Sabri whose team ebbed and flowed with Sow's fitness.  A 'stalemate' kind of football which had the benefit of Lolley and Grabban in good form. And Sow to act as destroyer. And it worked. When he was fit? Forest were 'just about' a top 6 team.

There was night and day between the scattered recruitment under Sabri (and Ventroz) and the more targeted approach under Hughton last January. Murray was ancient. But he got a good brace and a vital 3 points for Forest. If that's all he did? He did his job. That Forest are having to target such strikers shows a lack of preparation going back two years leaving Grabban as your main striker under Sabri showed a lack of foresight. And the body pays a price when you flay the horse. Both Lolley and Grabban were shattered last season. Again. Not Hughton's doing.

Forest went into last season unfit. And ill-prepared. And poorly recruited. And that's not something you turn around in a season. Just as Norwich's manager didn't in 1 season either. They played better football because they recruited better, went through the pain barrier and stuck with a manager. And they were in a far better place than Forest.

Forest's current hierarchy have finally had to take a bite of reality sandwich. Only just (finally) getting some imagination into recruitment and appointing a CEO who helped put Barnie on the map. Forest are putting the final pieces into place. Tier 1 Academy. CEO. One (along with Hughton) who really understands what the Championship is about. And you have to recruit the right quality for that. And surprise? It's taking time, isn't it?

And Forest will struggle this season without the right recruitment.  Whether it's Hughton or Jesus Christ all Mighty.

SA.

[wassy04]

Mighten was getting regular minutes, and had just had his first start, before Hughton arrived, and had looked decent. Better than what else we had.
Hughton relegated him to not playing in favour of more experienced players who didn't perform. Not a minute for 12 matches.

Mbe Soh started Sabri's last 2 matches then nothing for 14 matches under Hughton, while the more experienced Figuieredo gave a goal away on a regular basis. In fact Mbe Soh only got a look in because Figs served a suspension, and was quickly out again.

Garner would never have been here if it was up to Hughton. He wanted Gosling, another guy on big wages past his best to go with Knockaert & Murphy. We only got Garner 'cos Gosling turned us down.

His previous record with youth, see Brighton, was nothing short of appalling.

Great that we now have a team in place to plan our transfers, including signing promising young players, but inconsistent with Hughton.

And the next big part of the puzzle is how we get them to play. But again, what has been suggested by Dane Murphy, and what the fans want to watch, is inconsistent with Hughton.

It seems obvious what we need to do. Must we waste time?

Totally agree.  He just seems to not want to use younger players.

He described Joe Worrall as a 'young player' and he's 25 in Jan.

I'm pretty neutral on Hughton, but how old was his signing James Garner?

Or Will Swan who he gave his debut to?

Carvalho's played most pre-season games so far, and then you've the likes of Gabriel, Fernandes, Richardson, Konate, Fornah all given chances to impress in pre-season too.

That doesn't strike me as someone who doesn't want to use young players.

Agreed, also it's much easier to bring young players through when you're not fighting relegation. I think a good start and he'll be able to get us going nicely. The same people that don't like CH also didn't like any of our managers.

Lets just chill out and enjoy football with crowds next season and hopefully building a young squad for future seasons.

[PsychoStanleyStone]

thanks SA, i really should stop trying to make sense of anything, partly cos i'm thick but also it's stuff that doesn't collectively make sense or just too complicated for me to work it all out. Anyway new season let's hope the complicated twisted mess straightens itself out into something exciting, profitable and entertaining.

[Strawberry Avenger]

thanks SA, i really should stop trying to make sense of anything, partly cos i'm thick but also it's stuff that doesn't collectively make sense or just too complicated for me to work it all out.  Anyway new season let's hope the complicated twisted mess straightens itself out into something exciting, profitable and entertaining.

Forest tried to make recruitment complicated.  Foolish.  And costly.  Most of the fans knew our recruitment was crap for the last two Summers.  Most of our fans know the 'kind of' player Forest should be recruited.

So does Hughton.  But getting those players in takes time.  Notice the difference in players signed so far this year to last.  Why is that, I wonder?

At least we can play the Academy kids in the mean time.  And enjoy the return to form of Lolley and Colback.  And enjoy the imperial majesty of Worrall and Mckenna at CH.

There is no sense in football.  Unless you're Brian Clough.  Or our new CEO.  Who is talking sense.  Forest don't have parachute payments.  So Forest should box smart.

A new season.  A new dawn.  It's already markedly different.

A CEO and an excellent manager who are on the same recruitment page.

Pre-season victories.  Plenty of youth players given run outs in those victories too.

Isn't Brennan Johnston playing under Hughton exciting?  He scored a brace?

Mighten has been quite dashing and scored a pearler so far.

Players win you games.  If you can recruit the right ones.

SA.

[Alf]

Time will tell.  But i'm sensing tears from CH.  Not gonna work.

I can definitely see where he & Murphy may clash, so don't disagree that it might not work out. I just think it's a total myth that he doesn't play youth. When you look at who he's already played, who he's trying out pre-season, and who he signed I think he's got a pretty balanced approach.

Garner 19, Krovi 25, Knockers 29, Murray older than God's dad - his 4 signings so far and you've one for each age bracket. To me playing a balanced side isn't ignoring youth, it's ensuring they are blooded and integrated into the game properly with experience alongside them. And I think Hughton's tried to do that so far, something which isn't easy when fighting relegation.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Agree Alf. CH was in a mess middle of last season and he turned to trusted senior figures he could rely on to get us out of it, hardly a surprise.
I share some of the frustrations expressed by others but want to give him the whole of this season come what may, think he may pleasantly surprise some of us.

[Alf]

Agree Alf. CH was in a mess middle of last season and he turned to trusted senior figures he could rely on to get us out of it, hardly a surprise.
I share some of the frustrations expressed by others but want to give him the whole of this season come what may, think he may pleasantly surprise some of us.

Aye. His football bores me to tears, but he's never finished outside of the top 4 in a full season.

So you'd think we'd give him at least 1 full season here, regardless of "fit".

[wassy04]

Agree Alf. CH was in a mess middle of last season and he turned to trusted senior figures he could rely on to get us out of it, hardly a surprise.
I share some of the frustrations expressed by others but want to give him the whole of this season come what may, think he may pleasantly surprise some of us.

Aye. His football bores me to tears, but he's never finished outside of the top 4 in a full season.

So you'd think we'd give him at least 1 full season here, regardless of "fit".

Pretty much my view too.

I'm hoping Murphy is the SoD to CH's Cotterill and that his methods helps CH progress as a manager. I'm sure he'd like to play better football and win more! Vice versa CH will push back and offer strong opinions too and not be a yes man.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Agree Alf. CH was in a mess middle of last season and he turned to trusted senior figures he could rely on to get us out of it, hardly a surprise.
I share some of the frustrations expressed by others but want to give him the whole of this season come what may, think he may pleasantly surprise some of us.

Aye. His football bores me to tears, but he's never finished outside of the top 4 in a full season.

So you'd think we'd give him at least 1 full season here, regardless of "fit".

If CH 'bores' Forest to promotion then he'll have done his job.  The Championship has become pugilistic.  Or always was.  Only Barnsley and Norwich come to mind as exceptions.  And they recruited better players. 

I'd be quite happy with solid football with Mighten tearing up the wing...and Brennan Johnston scoring a brace.

It's not like Sabri's football wasn't boring.  Or many of the manager's of the last 20 years.  A good few were bored by Warburton's tippy tappy football with sieve like defending.  I don't recall Forest fans being happy with most of the football of the last 20 years.  Why would they be?

The Billy Davies years were a welcome reprieve from 'the norm.'

I did like Hart's football though.

SA.

[ozzyten10]

Barnsley played 100 mph kick and rush with a high press. Very little quality but effective. Norwich played good football as did Luton. Reading were OK to watch too. Brentford went much more direct last year and it paid dividends.
CH has always played a balanced style with around 50% possession when sides are playing well.
His Newcastle side scored a hatful as did Brighton. His record suggests he drills a defensive team shape in his early tenure and then develops a more expansive side later on.

I’m hoping we score many more goals this year but if we win the league with a tight defence and loads of 1-0s I won’t moan.