NFFC Financial Talk
(12-03-2021, 05:22 PM)Marinakis Red Wrote: Forest have got to do better financially. The amount we spend on players with no return or sell on fees is ridiculous. This figures highlight the continuous mistakes in that department.

Fortunately marinakis has papered over the failings of others with the 20m.

I thought not letting players run down their contracts and leaving for nothing is an area Forest had improved upon.  

Further, I thought Mr. V had done reasonably well 'flipping' some players that Forest brought in? (I suppose with the high churn there will be wins and losses?)

There has, of course, been a great churn of players due, partly to the chopping and changing of managers.  But I thought that the padding of a squad was partially deliberate to allow our Sister Club to help us flip players for a profit?

Maybe actual figures will suggest otherwise.

It would be interesting to see a list of the players brought in since Warburton (or on each manager basis) and see what the profits and losses were for each manager's players.  I would have thought the Aitor Karanka era would be quite expensive on players and wages if but for Carvalho alone.

That said.  Our latest foray into squad busting transfer activity last Summer brought 14 players in. I'm more than curious of the financial impact of doing so. :O. 

But that was before we had a more incisive number brought about by Hughton this January.

This Summer is?  'Going to be busy.' According to Hughton.  So there's more 'churn' (necessity this time 11 players out of contract and many loans) but at least we have the experienced and calm oversight of Hughton this time.  Some say his transfer track record isn't that great at other clubs.  Dunno about that.  We had a shrewd January in the difficult circumstances of our current league position.  I'd like to see what he can do with a whole Summer Transfer Window.

SA.
Reply
Wages is the main expenditure (around £35m a year? ish) and on the whole we’ve balanced incomings with outgoings in recent years, with smallish transfer outlay, so I doubt there’s been much difference overall on the balance sheet.

Reply
(12-03-2021, 07:15 PM)Sabricadabra Wrote: Wages is the main expenditure (around £35m a year? ish) and on the whole we’ve balanced incomings with outgoings in recent years, with smallish transfer outlay, so I doubt there’s been much difference overall on the balance sheet.

I wonder with the 11 out of contact players and loans to go back whether this is the perfect storm to get wages down to a 'blank' sheet to give Hughton the transfer war chest he needs for Forest to 'go for it' this Summer with a more balanced squad.  Seems like we'd have to offload Arter and one or two other high wage earners.

If we can keep hold of Worrall, Yates and Johnston there is a decent spine there to build around.  We have a decent keeper.  We have Mighten on the wing.  That's 5 players we don't have to worry about.

Doesn't that finally churn out the Aitor era of signings?  We could raise money by selling Car' and grab a nominal fee for Grabban or keep him as squad depth with him no longer being the main striker?  That and sell one or two others to allow Chris to go shopping to augment the spine with 'buys' and loans?

I often wonder how Reading and Barnsley went from bottom six to top six.  I haven't looked into their transfer business but was aware when they changed managers and that up until recently hadn't been doing that well.

How does our wages turnover compare to the likes of the current top six?

It seems to me that a good manager, an actual preseason and getting recruitment right still count for alot.  And it should if you're spending £35 million on wages.  :O

SA.
Reply
(12-03-2021, 07:35 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote:
(12-03-2021, 07:15 PM)Sabricadabra Wrote: Wages is the main expenditure (around £35m a year? ish) and on the whole we’ve balanced incomings with outgoings in recent years, with smallish transfer outlay, so I doubt there’s been much difference overall on the balance sheet.

I wonder with the 11 out of contact players and loans to go back whether this is the perfect storm to get wages down to a 'blank' sheet to give Hughton the transfer war chest he needs for Forest to 'go for it' this Summer with a more balanced squad.  Seems like we'd have to offload Arter and one or two other high wage earners.

If we can keep hold of Worrall, Yates and Johnston there is a decent spine there to build around.  We have a decent keeper.  We have Mighten on the wing.  That's 5 players we don't have to worry about.

Doesn't that finally churn out the Aitor era of signings?  We could raise money by selling Car' and grab a nominal fee for Grabban or keep him as squad depth with him no longer being the main striker?  That and sell one or two others to allow Chris to go shopping to augment the spine with 'buys' and loans?

I often wonder how Reading and Barnsley went from bottom six to top six.  I haven't looked into their transfer business but was aware when they changed managers and that up until recently hadn't been doing that well.

How does our wages turnover compare to the likes of the current top six?

It seems to me that a good manager, an actual preseason and getting recruitment right still count for alot.  And it should if you're spending £35 million on wages.  :O

SA.

For Reading  its obvious isn't it? Two words: Alfa Semedo.....

Obviously joking.
Reply
(14-03-2021, 04:06 PM)zicorice Wrote:
(12-03-2021, 07:35 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote:
(12-03-2021, 07:15 PM)Sabricadabra Wrote: Wages is the main expenditure (around £35m a year? ish) and on the whole we’ve balanced incomings with outgoings in recent years, with smallish transfer outlay, so I doubt there’s been much difference overall on the balance sheet.

I wonder with the 11 out of contact players and loans to go back whether this is the perfect storm to get wages down to a 'blank' sheet to give Hughton the transfer war chest he needs for Forest to 'go for it' this Summer with a more balanced squad.  Seems like we'd have to offload Arter and one or two other high wage earners.

If we can keep hold of Worrall, Yates and Johnston there is a decent spine there to build around.  We have a decent keeper.  We have Mighten on the wing.  That's 5 players we don't have to worry about.

Doesn't that finally churn out the Aitor era of signings?  We could raise money by selling Car' and grab a nominal fee for Grabban or keep him as squad depth with him no longer being the main striker?  That and sell one or two others to allow Chris to go shopping to augment the spine with 'buys' and loans?

I often wonder how Reading and Barnsley went from bottom six to top six.  I haven't looked into their transfer business but was aware when they changed managers and that up until recently hadn't been doing that well.

How does our wages turnover compare to the likes of the current top six?

It seems to me that a good manager, an actual preseason and getting recruitment right still count for alot.  And it should if you're spending £35 million on wages.  :O

SA.

For Reading  its obvious isn't it? Two words: Alfa Semedo.....

Obviously joking.

Just a question. Wasn't it Barnsley that established a transfer policy of no new signings of players over 25? If so, it seems looking for younger, hungrier players on lower wages might be the way to go instead of 30 year old wasters looking for one last contract.
Reply
(12-03-2021, 06:39 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote: It would be interesting to see a list of the players brought in

I've included loans as well, as they are not free, they often include a fee & at least partial wages.

I'm also doing it by window & season, rather than manager as signing have not always been managers choices.

17/18

Full Transfers:

Cummings - Cost £900k - Sold for ?
McKay - Cost £770k - Sold for £500k
Murphy - Cost £2m - Released
Darikwa - Cost £900k - Released
Bouchalakis - Cost Free - Released
Bridcutt - Cost £900k - Released

Total Outlay (not including wages) - £5.47m - Recouped - £500k

Loss - £4.97m

Dejagah - Cost Free - Released
Lolley - Cost £600k -
Guédioura - Cost Free - Released
Watson - Cost Free - Released
Kapino - Cost Free - Sold for £270k
Fuentes - Cost Free - Released

Total Outlay (not including wages) - £660k - Recouped - £270k

Loss - £390k

17/18 Year totals - Spent - £6.13m - Recouped - £770k

Loss - £5.36m

18/19

Carvalho - Cost £13.2m -
Dawson - Cost Free -
Figueiredo - Cost £2.1m -
Robinson - Cost Free - Sold for £1m
Soudani - Cost £2.3m - Sold for £2m
Pantilimon - Cost £1m - Sold for £200k
Grabban - Cost £6.1m -
Steele - Cost Free - Released
Hefele - Cost £300k -
Tachtsidis - Cost Free - Sold for £400k
Yacob - Cost Free - Released
Arnisfard - Cost Free - Sold for £500k

Total Outlay (not including wages) - £25m - Recouped - £4.1m

Loss - £20.9m

Benalouane - Cost £900k - Released
Milosevic - Cost Free - Released

Total Outlay (not including wages) - £0.9m - Recouped - £0m

Loss - £0.9m

18/19 Year totals - Spent - £25.9m - Recouped - £4.1m

Loss - £21.8m

19/20

Ameobi - Cost Free -
Silva - Cost £1m - Sold for £1m
Ribiero - Cost Free -
Adomah - Cost Free - Released
Sow - Cost Free
Jenkinson - Cost £2m -
Samba - Cost £2m -
Chema - Cost £500k - Sold for £1.3m

Total Outlay (not including wages) - £5.5m - Recouped - £4.3m

Loss - £1.2m

Da Costa - Cost £2m -
Bong - Cot £450k -

Total Outlay (not including wages) - £2.45m - Recouped - £0m

Loss - £2.45m

19/20 Year totals - Spent - £7.95m - Recouped - £4.3m

Loss - £3.65m

Total losses - 17/18 - 19/20 = £30.81m

Loans:

17/18

Dowell
Federici
Figueiredo
Pantilimon
Tomlin
Colback

18/19

Dias
Goncalves
Colback
Byram
Janko
Hefele
Bonatini
Pele
Wague

19/20

Semedo
Muric
Mir
Bostock
Diakhaby

Remaining assets from that period:

Lolley
Dawson
Figueiredo
Carvalho
Grabban
Hefele
Ameobi
Ribeiro
Sow
Jenkinson
Samba
Da Costa
Bong

So effectively we've spent £30m on that little list.
Reply
Sure we tried a similar thing once and it got us nowhere.
We shouldn't place limits on ourselves.
Reply
Just to make people wince a bit more.

There are 69 players on that list.

Assuming the average wage for them is £10K per week and that each player has stayed just 1 season then we have spent a further £36 Million in wages on them.

Some of these players are paid considerably more than that and of course some have hung around like a bad smell for years, I estimate Hefele has cost us £2.5M over his contract.

Of course some of them have done well and earned their money, we have to have some outlay. But Transfers £30M plus wages for them £36M and we are in 17th place in the Championship.
Reply
(15-03-2021, 12:17 PM)Woan Wrote: Just a question. Wasn't it Barnsley that established a transfer policy of no new signings of players over 25? If so, it seems looking for younger, hungrier players on lower wages might be the way to go instead of 30 year old wasters looking for one last contract.

(15-03-2021, 12:24 PM)Alf Garnett Wrote: Sure we tried a similar thing once and it got us nowhere.
We shouldn't place limits on ourselves.

I would really like to try the no over 25s policy properly. We kind of did it but we basically signed a load of Portuguese kids with no experience of the EFL so nor surprise we got nowhere. If recruitment is done correctly I think it could work then we unlock potential and develop these players how we want.

Alf does have a point though and I am a realist. Barnsley fans up until a few months ago were complaining bitterly about the strategy. Lets be honest if it wasnt for some utterly clueless Forest injury time defending last July, then Barnsley would currently be a L1 side.

Maybe there is a compromise. Only sign over 25s on free transfer and max 2 year contract, Youth first policy.
Reply
(15-03-2021, 12:17 PM)Woan Wrote: Just a question. Wasn't it Barnsley that established a transfer policy of no new signings of players over 25? If so, it seems looking for younger, hungrier players on lower wages might be the way to go instead of 30 year old wasters looking for one last contract.

(15-03-2021, 12:24 PM)Alf Garnett Wrote: Sure we tried a similar thing once and it got us nowhere.
We shouldn't place limits on ourselves.

I would really like to try the no over 25s policy properly. We kind of did it but we basically signed a load of Portuguese kids with no experience of the EFL so nor surprise we got nowhere. If recruitment is done correctly I think it could work then we unlock potential and develop these players how we want.

Alf does have a point though and I am a realist. Barnsley fans up until a few months ago were complaining bitterly about the strategy. Lets be honest if it wasnt for some utterly clueless Forest injury time defending last July, then Barnsley would currently be a L1 side.

Maybe there is a compromise. Only sign over 25s on free transfer and max 2 year contract, Youth first policy.
Reply
We heard you the first time SM :D
Panic on the streets of London
Reply
(15-03-2021, 02:19 PM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote:
(15-03-2021, 12:17 PM)Woan Wrote: Just a question. Wasn't it Barnsley that established a transfer policy of no new signings of players over 25? If so, it seems looking for younger, hungrier players on lower wages might be the way to go instead of 30 year old wasters looking for one last contract.

(15-03-2021, 12:24 PM)Alf Garnett Wrote: Sure we tried a similar thing once and it got us nowhere.
We shouldn't place limits on ourselves.

I would really like to try the no over 25s policy properly. We kind of did it but we basically signed a load of Portuguese kids with no experience of the EFL so nor surprise we got nowhere. If recruitment is done correctly I think it could work then we unlock potential and develop these players how we want.

Alf does have a point though and I am a realist. Barnsley fans up until a few months ago were complaining bitterly about the strategy. Lets be honest if it wasnt for some utterly clueless Forest injury time defending last July, then Barnsley would currently be a L1 side.

Maybe there is a compromise. Only sign over 25s on free transfer and max 2 year contract, Youth first policy.

The epitome of fine margins.
Reply


Forum Jump: