NFFC Financial Talk

[Strawberry Avenger]

We finally have a seasoned, sane, honest and decent Championship campaigner who can keep a team in the Premier.

It's about time we were consistent and backed the manager from the hierarchy to the fans.

If we pull together we will get promoted.

Give him 3 quality players to ignite the decent work done over the Summer and we could be onto the start of something.

SA.

[selborne garibaldi]

Easy. Why hasn’t anyone thought of it before.

Well, all but 3 of the current Championship have managed it since we were last in the top division. It's really not as hard as you think if you stick with a consistent strategy and provide adequate funding. We do one, or the other, but rarely both at the same time. 

At least the academy is producing a consistent stream of talent.

It’s harder than it’s ever been for a club of our size. Most clubs who get promoted are parachute clubs who are richer and and have more expensive squads than us. When I said we’re 12th, that is actually in terms of income. If it was so easy for a medium size club like ours to get promoted how come so few have managed it in the last 5 years since parachute payments became a big factor?

After a little research, the following teams were promoted from the 2014/15 season onwards to the Premier League. 

My summary is that of the 18 individual promotions, only 7 were achieved with the benefit of parachute payments for that season, meaning that 11 teams have all been promoted to the Premier League in the last 5 years without parachute payments. Of these, I think only Leeds could be considered a larger club than Forest. 

What's their secret?


2014/15
Bournemouth - no 
Watford - no 
Norwich City - yes

2015/16
Burnley - yes
Middlesbrough - no
Hull City - yes

2016/17
Newcastle - yes
Brighton - no
Huddersfield - no

2017/18
Wolves - no
Cardiff - no
Fulham - no

2018/19
Norwich - no
Sheff Utd - no
Villa - yes

2019/20
Leeds - no
WBA - yes
Fulham - yes

I think 3 of those did have parachute payments, but let’s take your good research as is.

Bournemouth - cheated. Overspent massively on what was permissible under FFP.
Watford - found a loophole where they signed 8 players from a superior sister club. Loophole subsequently closed.
Middlesbrough - good manager
Brighton - good manager
Huddersfield - wtf you tell me
Wolves - arrangement with super agent to bring in Portuguese talent
Cardiff - good manager
Fulham - good manager 
Norwich - good manager
Sheff Utd - good manager
Leeds - good manager 

So regardless of other considerations, I would say having a good manager is the single most important factor for any non-parachute club with promotion aspirations.

One of the managers above was a man called Hughton. How about we give him a go.

I completely agree -- and that means backing Hughton this coming transfer window with the players he needs to ensure we don't get relegated this year, and start building to a promotion push next season. 

Happy New Year btw.

[Sausage Roll]

Tweet says that Marinakis' holding company for Forest has converted around £20m of debt into shares.

[PsychoStanleyStone]

Tweet says that Marinakis' holding company for Forest has converted around £20m of debt into shares.

what does that actually mean, is it the same as turning dishwater water into a fine wine?

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Good news and a nice gesture by EM so it won't be newsworthy to most.

[Marinakis Red]

That is fantastic from Marinakis. It is brilliant so very much news worthy.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Reducing debt by £20 million is seismic news.

SA.

[ThePromisedLand]

I’m no accountant - but this sounds great news.

And helps with FFP?

[Paplane]

Dont want to pee on this love-in but isn't this just standard ffp compliance stuff? As I understand it, the club is allowed to make an aggregate loss over 3 years (£39m?) but any loss over £5m per year (??) has to be converted into shares by the owner so that the club is not burdened with long term debt. I think that's the way it works.

[Strawberry Avenger]

Dont want to pee on this love-in but isn't this just standard ffp compliance stuff? As I understand it, the club is allowed to make an aggregate loss over 3 years (£39m?) but any loss over £5m per year (??) has to be converted into shares by the owner so that the club is not burdened with long term debt. I think that's the way it works.

I'd hardly call reduction of £20 million a 'love in.'

It is what it is.

'Great news.'  It shows our club is being run reasonably well off the pitch.  Instead of car-crashing into FFP under previous regimes.

SA.

[ThePromisedLand]

Dont want to pee on this love-in but isn't this just standard ffp compliance stuff? As I understand it, the club is allowed to make an aggregate loss over 3 years (£39m?) but any loss over £5m per year (??) has to be converted into shares by the owner so that the club is not burdened with long term debt. I think that's the way it works.

I'd hardly call reduction of £20 million a 'love in.'

It is what it is.

'Great news.'  It shows our club is being run reasonably well off the pitch.  Instead of car-crashing into FFP under previous regimes.

SA.

Agree SA - but to positively compare with ‘previous regimes’ is hardly difficult  :cool:

[Strawberry Avenger]

It's not difficult. But it is refreshing and noteworthy. Because for most of the last 20 years we were run poorly. There can be a sense of inevitability about that. You can have some in the press having a pop at the current owners but I can see we've moved on from letting players leave for nothing or over spending our way into FFP punishment.

It's a question of competency. And the current ownership are savvy on the financial aspect. They have legacy of a Jewel in the Crown in Olympiacos. They, ultimately, do know what they're doing even if some of that has been lost in translation from Greece to the Championship.

So when I feel hard done to re: losing to bl**dy Luton, I look at the bigger picture, for news like this. (It was a goal scored from a toe flip past three Forest players who should have known better. That's the nature of the Championship, though. If you don't take your chances.) Forest were so far behind they were rotting off and on the pitch. It's clear that it's taken several years just to get to this point. A mid-table side (which had over achieved off the back of Grabban and Lolley's goals atop the Talismanic Sow fulcrum.)

Sooner or later recruitment, having the right manager installed (eg. Chris), a real pre-season (will it happen?) and the right playing personal will follow (a promising Jan' but it's going to take more than 3-5 players this Summer.)

Hopefully the reduction of £20 million of debt, letting go of the '11' players this Summer (out of contractors...) and off loading saleable assets to raise another £8-10 million will mean Hughton can sweep clean a patchwork squad of the previous couple of managers who either feel homesick, don't have the bottle, don't buy into what Hughton's doing or just aren't good enough and bring in robust players over the Summer with leadership, industry, (bit of pace), athleticism, competency and a smile.

SA.