Discuss Daniel Taylor's Thoughts

[Reds73]

I have just sat and watched the EM interview again and re-read the Nick Randall letter.

Nowhere in either of those two addresses are the Miracle Gates, the stand rebuild, the Academy or any other singular item mentioned!

The only areas that were discussed, which the club has since gone back on is a) Keeping Warburton at the club for 'many years', stability with the playing staff and more open communications to the fans [how much of the communication is going to the Trust and not being reported back to the fans?] Randall also claimed it was the clubs intentions to play 'the Forest Way', if possible and play attractive attacking, entertaining, passing football. This hasn't happened with the dross we are expected to watch.

EM states on more than one occasion that they will work hard to get us the success we deserve. He says over a 'number of years' and the board will 'work hard' to achieve that in their 'long term plan'. There is no mention of a two, three, five or one hundred year plan in either the interview or the open letter. EM goes on to say that if we improve our position this year (2017) and then improve it again the following year, then they will start looking at gearing it up for the PL. He does not once say that this is the absolute minimum he would expect! If we look at how we have done (up to this season), we have improved season upon season. Let us not forget that our benchmark at that time was scrapping survival by one solitary goal and finishing just outside the bottom three!

I do not know where the comments have emerged from regarding the 'Miracle Gates', Cat 1 status for the Academy or anything else that is in the public domain, with exception to the stand rebuild. But they must have come from somewhere!

Maybe we, as supporters, have over reacted to comments made by our owner and Chairman and have looked too deeply at what the club is hoping to achieve?

Maybe Covid is having a bad effect on our playing staff, who may feel the need to have the fans roaring them on, thus increasing their adrenaline levels (although the same has to apply to every other club as well)?

Maybe Covid is having a bad effect on our fans too, who miss the Saturday and midweek night rituals of going to the match, having a beer or two, a burger or hotdog?

This season, we have seen the club slip from a potentially promotion winning side to one of being in a relegation battle. Is this down to poor recruitment? Is it down to players not turning up? Is it a result of the Manager, be it his playing style or has he lost the dressing room? Is there too much 'interference' from Vrentzos and Modesto, or is that just Dan Taylor bullshit?

Are we just over-reacting to a poor couple of results over the past week or so? Or do we have the right to wonder what is going on?

I don't know what the answers are, I really don't. I don't know if Dan Taylor is telling the truth or S**t stirring.

Add to the above the absolute rubbish about Olympiakos cherry picking our best players, plus the rubbish about we are not applying for a Cat 1 Academy, plus the rubbish about the new stand being just a smoke screen and plus the rubbish about Ribeiro and it's damn obvious that a lot of what Taylor has said is absolute codswallop. Utter tripe.

Still some will hang on his every word though just because he's a Forest fan and a journalist.

Err no.

It’s because he is a genuine fan, with justifiable concerns, who is using his position to attempt to get things moving.

He is not burying his head in the sand.

You may not like the way he is going about it - I get that - but his motives are wholly praiseworthy.

I fully agree TPL.

There are lots of unsavoury stuff gone off that has left its mark on those around the club.

Dan Taylor knows a lot of them, and there is no way he writes lies.

He will be bang on the button what he is writing.

If good comes of it then that’s good.

Vrentzos is paranoid, he has his media folk scanning Twitter 24/7 !

If we could only spend some of that time on getting proper recruitment folk in who analyse every stat on every player in Europe like Brentford and Norwich do

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

Seriously, you are not going to admit that a lot of what he has said is just not true?

[ThePromisedLand]

It's not the motives TPL it's the content, read it above. How much evidence do you want?

A lot of it is just not true, some other bits are. Can't you just admit that?

Ok Sniff.

Give me the evidence.

I’m all ears.

And you can begin with gates not being built because of players demanding money.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

I have just sat and watched the EM interview again and re-read the Nick Randall letter.

Nowhere in either of those two addresses are the Miracle Gates, the stand rebuild, the Academy or any other singular item mentioned!

The only areas that were discussed, which the club has since gone back on is a) Keeping Warburton at the club for 'many years', stability with the playing staff and more open communications to the fans [how much of the communication is going to the Trust and not being reported back to the fans?] Randall also claimed it was the clubs intentions to play 'the Forest Way', if possible and play attractive attacking, entertaining, passing football. This hasn't happened with the dross we are expected to watch.

EM states on more than one occasion that they will work hard to get us the success we deserve. He says over a 'number of years' and the board will 'work hard' to achieve that in their 'long term plan'. There is no mention of a two, three, five or one hundred year plan in either the interview or the open letter. EM goes on to say that if we improve our position this year (2017) and then improve it again the following year, then they will start looking at gearing it up for the PL. He does not once say that this is the absolute minimum he would expect! If we look at how we have done (up to this season), we have improved season upon season. Let us not forget that our benchmark at that time was scrapping survival by one solitary goal and finishing just outside the bottom three!

I do not know where the comments have emerged from regarding the 'Miracle Gates', Cat 1 status for the Academy or anything else that is in the public domain, with exception to the stand rebuild. But they must have come from somewhere!

Maybe we, as supporters, have over reacted to comments made by our owner and Chairman and have looked too deeply at what the club is hoping to achieve?

Maybe Covid is having a bad effect on our playing staff, who may feel the need to have the fans roaring them on, thus increasing their adrenaline levels (although the same has to apply to every other club as well)?

Maybe Covid is having a bad effect on our fans too, who miss the Saturday and midweek night rituals of going to the match, having a beer or two, a burger or hotdog?

This season, we have seen the club slip from a potentially promotion winning side to one of being in a relegation battle. Is this down to poor recruitment? Is it down to players not turning up? Is it a result of the Manager, be it his playing style or has he lost the dressing room? Is there too much 'interference' from Vrentzos and Modesto, or is that just Dan Taylor bullshit?

Are we just over-reacting to a poor couple of results over the past week or so? Or do we have the right to wonder what is going on?

I don't know what the answers are, I really don't. I don't know if Dan Taylor is telling the truth or S**t stirring.

Add to the above the absolute rubbish about Olympiakos cherry picking our best players, plus the rubbish about we are not applying for a Cat 1 Academy, plus the rubbish about the new stand being just a smoke screen and plus the rubbish about Ribeiro and it's damn obvious that a lot of what Taylor has said is absolute codswallop. Utter tripe.

Still some will hang on his every word though just because he's a Forest fan and a journalist.

Err no.

It’s because he is a genuine fan, with justifiable concerns, who is using his position to attempt to get things moving.

He is not burying his head in the sand.

You may not like the way he is going about it - I get that - but his motives are wholly praiseworthy.

Vrentzos is paranoid, he has his media folk scanning Twitter 24/7 !

That's because someone opened a fake account in his name Reds73. No other reason.

[Strawberry Avenger]

N

I have just sat and watched the EM interview again and re-read the Nick Randall letter.

Nowhere in either of those two addresses are the Miracle Gates, the stand rebuild, the Academy or any other singular item mentioned!

The only areas that were discussed, which the club has since gone back on is a) Keeping Warburton at the club for 'many years', stability with the playing staff and more open communications to the fans [how much of the communication is going to the Trust and not being reported back to the fans?] Randall also claimed it was the clubs intentions to play 'the Forest Way', if possible and play attractive attacking, entertaining, passing football. This hasn't happened with the dross we are expected to watch.

EM states on more than one occasion that they will work hard to get us the success we deserve. He says over a 'number of years' and the board will 'work hard' to achieve that in their 'long term plan'. There is no mention of a two, three, five or one hundred year plan in either the interview or the open letter. EM goes on to say that if we improve our position this year (2017) and then improve it again the following year, then they will start looking at gearing it up for the PL. He does not once say that this is the absolute minimum he would expect! If we look at how we have done (up to this season), we have improved season upon season. Let us not forget that our benchmark at that time was scrapping survival by one solitary goal and finishing just outside the bottom three!

I do not know where the comments have emerged from regarding the 'Miracle Gates', Cat 1 status for the Academy or anything else that is in the public domain, with exception to the stand rebuild. But they must have come from somewhere!

Maybe we, as supporters, have over reacted to comments made by our owner and Chairman and have looked too deeply at what the club is hoping to achieve?

Maybe Covid is having a bad effect on our playing staff, who may feel the need to have the fans roaring them on, thus increasing their adrenaline levels (although the same has to apply to every other club as well)?

Maybe Covid is having a bad effect on our fans too, who miss the Saturday and midweek night rituals of going to the match, having a beer or two, a burger or hotdog?

This season, we have seen the club slip from a potentially promotion winning side to one of being in a relegation battle. Is this down to poor recruitment? Is it down to players not turning up? Is it a result of the Manager, be it his playing style or has he lost the dressing room? Is there too much 'interference' from Vrentzos and Modesto, or is that just Dan Taylor bullshit?

Are we just over-reacting to a poor couple of results over the past week or so? Or do we have the right to wonder what is going on?

I don't know what the answers are, I really don't. I don't know if Dan Taylor is telling the truth or S**t stirring.

Add to the above the absolute rubbish about Olympiakos cherry picking our best players, plus the rubbish about we are not applying for a Cat 1 Academy, plus the rubbish about the new stand being just a smoke screen and plus the rubbish about Ribeiro and it's damn obvious that a lot of what Taylor has said is absolute codswallop. Utter tripe.

Still some will hang on his every word though just because he's a Forest fan and a journalist.

Err no.

It’s because he is a genuine fan, with justifiable concerns, who is using his position to attempt to get things moving.

He is not burying his head in the sand.

You may not like the way he is going about it - I get that - but his motives are wholly praiseworthy.

I fully agree TPL.

There are lots of unsavoury stuff gone off that has left its mark on those around the club.

Dan Taylor knows a lot of them, and there is no way he writes lies.

He will be bang on the button what he is writing.

If good comes of it then that’s good.

Vrentzos is paranoid, he has his media folk scanning Twitter 24/7 !

If we could only spend some of that time on getting proper recruitment folk in who analyse every stat on every player in Europe like Brentford and Norwich do

Yep.  Forest need to up their recruitment game.

Also rand like Norwich and Brentford can do it.

The hybris of their Greek suvmccess story didn't translate to the Championship.

If they had backed Aitor or Martin (they thought they knew better than a guy who'd been there and done it and backed a few stroppy players instead?) we'd be in the Premier but they doubled down on their confetti recruitment.

The lack of sure footing over the timing of Sabri's departure collided with the acknowledgment of a more Championship focused recruitment and cart before horse appointing Hughton after train wreck sacking and "preseason" means we need to look to Hughton's 2nd season here for any success.

I can see why they promised what they did.

Harder to deliver.

It comes across as petulant, erratic and impatient.

Giving Hughton all the time he needs. Building the stand. Will go a long way to soothing the current choppy waters.

SA.

[wassy04]

In response to Tricky's post, things briefed to journalists very much count as promises. This is the only communication the club currently offers so information provided to Tails, Percy even DT has to be included.

[Colnago]

Mad Squad is bang on TPL. It's all there above your post. Why don't you read it?

We can go round and round in circles all day with this, I sit firmly on the side of DT but others see it totally the opposite and I can t see why. Just as they can t see it from my angle
That’s the top and bottom of it

[ThePromisedLand]

Mad Squad is bang on TPL. It's all there above your post. Why don't you read it?

We can go round and round in circles all day with this, I sit firmly on the side of DT but others see it totally the opposite and I can t see why. Just as they can t see it from my angle
That’s the top and bottom of it

Nail on head.

Thank you.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

It is a shame we are discussing Taylor in this way because if NFFC get it right and there is praise worthy stuff coming out of the club then he could be a real force for good. He of course writes mainly about general football not Forest but often manages to weave us into a story. There is a nice article he has just written about players who move for record transfer fees and there is a good anecdote about Trevor Francis. It made me wonder how much it has affected Carvalho.

Away from twitter he writes some lovely stuff, I defy you to read the story about the 2 Sunderland lads who ended up living with Cloughie without a tear in your eye. For what its worth I think there are some genuine concerns but there are other occasions when it just feels like sniping and is unnecessary.

[Tricky]

I have just sat and watched the EM interview again and re-read the Nick Randall letter.

Nowhere in either of those two addresses are the Miracle Gates, the stand rebuild, the Academy or any other singular item mentioned!

The only areas that were discussed, which the club has since gone back on is a) Keeping Warburton at the club for 'many years', stability with the playing staff and more open communications to the fans [how much of the communication is going to the Trust and not being reported back to the fans?] Randall also claimed it was the clubs intentions to play 'the Forest Way', if possible and play attractive attacking, entertaining, passing football. This hasn't happened with the dross we are expected to watch.

EM states on more than one occasion that they will work hard to get us the success we deserve. He says over a 'number of years' and the board will 'work hard' to achieve that in their 'long term plan'. There is no mention of a two, three, five or one hundred year plan in either the interview or the open letter. EM goes on to say that if we improve our position this year (2017) and then improve it again the following year, then they will start looking at gearing it up for the PL. He does not once say that this is the absolute minimum he would expect! If we look at how we have done (up to this season), we have improved season upon season. Let us not forget that our benchmark at that time was scrapping survival by one solitary goal and finishing just outside the bottom three!

I do not know where the comments have emerged from regarding the 'Miracle Gates', Cat 1 status for the Academy or anything else that is in the public domain, with exception to the stand rebuild. But they must have come from somewhere!

Maybe we, as supporters, have over reacted to comments made by our owner and Chairman and have looked too deeply at what the club is hoping to achieve?

Maybe Covid is having a bad effect on our playing staff, who may feel the need to have the fans roaring them on, thus increasing their adrenaline levels (although the same has to apply to every other club as well)?

Maybe Covid is having a bad effect on our fans too, who miss the Saturday and midweek night rituals of going to the match, having a beer or two, a burger or hotdog?

This season, we have seen the club slip from a potentially promotion winning side to one of being in a relegation battle. Is this down to poor recruitment? Is it down to players not turning up? Is it a result of the Manager, be it his playing style or has he lost the dressing room? Is there too much 'interference' from Vrentzos and Modesto, or is that just Dan Taylor bullshit?

Are we just over-reacting to a poor couple of results over the past week or so? Or do we have the right to wonder what is going on?

I don't know what the answers are, I really don't. I don't know if Dan Taylor is telling the truth or S**t stirring. I don't know if our players are good enough but just aren't putting in the effort or are they just not good enough? 

I do know that if things don't change over the next few months, we will be plying our trade in League 1 next season and that is the grim reality we currently face

Tricky:

Hear what you say mate - and agree with much of it. We should though state the facts where known ( Mad Squad quite incredibly - having read your post - believes DT to be ‘full of S**t’. Just shows you... )

I refer you to the Supporters Trust - September 2017: 

‘The Nottingham Forest Supporters’ Trust is delighted to announce that, following positive consultation with Nottingham Forest Football Club, the proposal to install commemorative gates at the entrance to the City Ground has been given the go ahead and work is now underway to plan the process through to installation’.

This is not a figment of anyone’s imagination.

This is fact!

Now personally I couldn’t give a toss about a pair of gates commemorating previous success - a nice to have ‘monument’ but not the end of the world if they don’t materialise. ( Sniff tells us that it was the players demanding money - I find it difficult to believe that the club can’t build gates without having to shell out copyright monies? )

In the interests of transparency I have just taken a quick look at the meeting minutes of the Trust over the last couple of years ( I was quite critical of the worth of this organisation before reading - I’m now even more convinced that they are not fit to represent us fans ).

The last time that the ‘Miracle Gates’ was mentioned was at their meeting of 9th Feb 2019:

‘Miracle Gates: It is important NFST get the opportunity to say that they will still be happening - mention a week or so after the announcement. It will show we are integrated with NFFC & the fruition of one of the things on our agenda’

Nothing that I can see since then - suggesting possibly that the ground redevelopment has overtaken this initiative ( no issue with that ).

Tells me two things:

Miracle Gates idea scrapped - no problem ( just say so ).
Trust not fit for purpose.

I too have been critical and distrustful of the Trust and their full intentions. The fact that none of this has been openly dialogued to the clubs supporters is a downright affront to the tens of thousands of genuine fans of Forest who have wanted something positive to come out of the club to recognise the achievements of those legends of 40+ years ago, but who have blamed the club for not showing the remotest interest in by ignoring ideas about having a commemoration to celebrate our clubs greatest ever achievements.

They can't even use Covid as the blame because this was minuted a full year before Covid started to take over the country.

It's time the trust opened up to the fans or stood down to pave the way for genuine fans that believe we should all be entitled to know what is happening at our club, that will impact on the fans who attend the ground.

Regarding the gates themselves, it would make more sense to me now to erect them once the stand re-build has been completed and incorporate them into the finished item.

But is this the fault of the club? The club wanted a Trust set up to represent the fans views. The Trust was set up as the club wished. It is not the clubs responsibility to instruct the Trust on what it can, or cannot say to its supporters. Nor should the Trust have been set up for 'members' only. It was set up to 'represent the views of all supporters of Nottingham Forest FC', not be a private members club where only its members get to know what is happening at OUR club. If DT has reported this, then he is doing the work of the Trust, not the work of the club. He is probably asking the questions the Trust themselves should be asking the hierarchy. Is DT having a go at the club or the Trust, or both?

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

f**k this. A total lack of honesty on here today. Can't believe that nobody has the deceny to admit that some of what Taylor has said is bullshit. Am I asking to much for a bit of honesty?

Very very disappointed.

[ThePromisedLand]

Don’t believe that DT was quoting anything from the Trust Tricky.
It was published in the Post also - hence was in the general domain.
It was i who brought them into this debate.

My gripe with the Trust is that they come over as a ‘holier than thou’ operation.
They have many laudable objectives & initiatives - though I’m not sure that these necessarily meet the priorities of the fan base.

PS I am not privy to what happens within Trust meetings. I purely googled & immediately found minutes of all meetings for all to see ( which, to be fair, shows the kind of transparency that we all like to see ).