Evangelos Marinakis And Co

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Its not the players its the formation and mindset placed on them by the Manager & coaching team who ever that may be. Until we have an attack minded coach in place we will never get out of this division (unless relegated!!!). Look at the last 20 years or so, every team promoted into the PL have scored a hat full of goals, anybody for Kevin Keegan?

Sorry JL but this is ridiculous IMO. We need a more attack minded coach than Hughton to get promotion? Ignoring the fact that Hughton has succeeded twice with other clubs. We also has Karanka in a similar style who got promoted. Clubs that have had scored loads of goals to go up are usually those with parachute payments and have effectively bought PL players to do it eg Wolves, West Brom. Exception was Bielsa but he is a one off and Leeds spent a bit too. Everyone thinks Warnock attacks but he doent really just brings on a couple of big lads up front and pumps the ball to them.

The style of play isnt the problem, nor is picking out individual players performing below expectations as said by others above.

To turn it back on the owners I suggest the problem is 5 managers and 71 players in little over 3 years. The constant looking for a quick fix and reactionary chopping and changing when it doesnt work.
We have a good proven manager now in Hughton, give him a chance to mould and rebuild a team, that means not sacking him when we finish mid table this year.

[Sausage Roll]

Unless we start picking up wins soon we'll struggle to finish mid-table this year, never mind anything better.

We just don't look like scoring goals at the moment. We can't rely on the sheep, Wednesday and Wycombe being worse than us all season. That might sound overdramatic but we've got a really hard run of games coming up. If we fail to get many points from them we could be in deep trouble.

[Alf]

I think everyone is missing a very important point here.

It's not signing the likes of Cafu, Fred, Diallo and Blackett to blame for our form and performances. Those players are not playing so how can that be the reason? It makes no sense at all.

Plus there are plenty of players who were doing very well at the club last season who are still at the club and yet for whatever reason this season they are just not doing it. Samba, Ribeiro, Yates, Lolley, Ameobi, Grabban to name 6.

They're not to blame for the performances, but I think the logic/methods behind they're signings shows how slack our approach to signing players is overall.

Players arrive unfit & unsuitable for the league. Contrast that to signings made under Fawaz, where he entrusted managers to judge and 1-2m players like Antonio, Lansbury, Geddy & Sharp went on to play in the Prem.

Da Costa, Carvalho, Soudani, Jenks. There's 20m spent on those 4 players alone. Pearce got Antonio & Britt for around 7m. It's night & day.

I just think that our top brass get British football about as much as my Nan would have got gangster rap. The methods which work at Oly clearly don't work here IMO.

[Username]

Some need to read back through the summer transfer thread, most were lauding the signings we made and the owners for signing them. It's the players and managers who need to take a good look at themselves not the owners. The owners gave us what we were all begging for in terms of mainly British players with a good pedigree and Championship experience and a British/Irish manager with experience of getting teams promoted from our league.

And all this S**t about Vrentzos, what has that got to do with the way the players and manager are performing once they step onto the pitch.

Wouldn't blame EM for selling up to a bunch of Chinese and f*****g off.

We don't deserve him.

Yeah agreed, no-ones saying there weren't some strange decisions (Diallo, cafu, blackett) but again are the first team really struggling because we signed a few extra backups?

The signings of Christie, Ioannou, McKenna, Soh, colback, arter, Freeman, Taylor, knockaert were all welcomed. They came with decent pedigree a lot from recently promoted Fulham. Only really two have worked out so far (although Colback is the new scapegoat this season, gave away a pen that was outside the area and a debatable foul but again not the reason for our issues) so I'm classing him as a success personally.

We lost Watson, Cash, Sow (essentially) from last year's squad plus Ribeiro had been struggling. Plus Figs struggling and Worrall injured. So most of these signings were at least necessary.

I think had we have literally just signed Christie, Colback and Arter people would've complained we were missing a striker. Ok add Taylor, but we need a new new winger, fine Knockaert. We still need that box to box midfielder, Arter is available. Worrall is injured so we're pretty short at CB, Mckenna would be good.

You can't win and I refuse to believe you lot would've been happy with just replacing the players we lost from last season who by the way collapsed and threw away a playoff place so not exactly the greatest team ever.

IMO, the loss of preseason has made this a lot harder and some weird decisions from above have contributed but not to the extent its made out. I dont see this as a lost season, I think we'll gradually climb the table and be around where Millwall were in Feb/Mar.

However, looking out our next 5 games we can expect plenty more anger

You lose credibility when you use phrases like "were all welcomed" and pass it off as fact when it's patently not true.

We (ie you and me) have exchanged posts on this specific point more than once.

If you are defining the likes of Colback as a success then, quite frankly, you are part of the problem. There is absolutely no basis where the signing of Colback can be deemed that. I'm singling Colback out because you did, I've addressed the rest of the signings too earlier on.

You are right that "you can't win" but it shouldn't be about what everyone else thinks. It should be about delivering success and to do that we have to get player acquisition right, or at least substantially better than we have.

My point here is what does the big man think about this, looking at our current league position and results to date?

If you refuse to believe that people "would've been happy with just replacing the players we lost from last season" then you are myopically taking yourself on a journey that is not based in reality. 

The squad finished seventh. It needed some additional quality and to replace those that left, in order to make a tangible step forward.

[ThePromisedLand]

I mean, we can argue all day about players, the board, and what ever else,  but if you had been promoted at work to take over a team of lads what were performing well then you would still expect them to perform well with you in charge, f**k knows what hughtons teaching them in training but we have gone back over from sabri, i feel like i did when was oneill was here, gutted, we have another stubborn manager who wont play youth, wont admit we are playing S**t under, doing stupid stuff like having 3 full backs on the bench, fair play to the bloke he got promotion with newcastle and brighton, but the squads they had at the time most managers would, we can defend, cant pass, dont have game plans, sorry thats not down to 14 players coming in, thats down to management,  folk saying give hughton time, hes had more time than when bristol, watford, bournmouth, reading did when they brought new managers in, they came in for the short preseason, they all brought in a new style and players, and they are all top six, norwich brought a S**t load of players in, alot from abroad, no unrest there, top of the league, its only gonna get worse cause iv heard a few teams are sniffing around mighten, everyone could go round in circles all day with arguments, we need to change it up and get us back to our best, attack, goals win games, we set up for shitty 1.0 smash and grab wins, we concede and think f**k that, if chris cant sort it by jan then you know hes a goner..

Probably some great points in there NER - but I can’t read cos I have to breathe occasionally  :D

[Username]

We signed 3 players who were promoted with Fulham last season!

Knockaert, Christie, Arter,  then proven Championship performers in Freedman, Taylor, and Colback, then add Scottish International Mckenna to the likes of what we already had in Grabban, Lolley, Worrall, Ameobi, Ribeireo etc. For some reason these players are just not doing it but nots let kid ourselves that they aren't good enough. I reckon those who think that are barking up the wrong tree.

That's correct.

My Fulham supporting mate said that Knockaert contributed very little and they only signed him because it was a compulsory deal. He said that barring a six game run where everything he hit went in Arter was only being played due to nepotism. He told me that Christie cannot defend and at times was overlooked to play a centre back at right back instead of him.

I think he was right on all counts from what I had seen of them last season and I am not a scout paid to look at them in the level of detail that one should before bringing them in.

Colback has never won games single handidly, or even majorly influenced them, he goes around tidily doing what he does. That's the extent of it.

Dan Harding was promoted with Southampton, as was Danny Collins, as was Danny Fox, there are plenty of examples where average players go up from this division because with their limited abilities they happen to compliment the sum of their larger parts, hence my emphasis on Mr Hughton finding a magic formula.

If anyone thinks that this squad of players is good enough to finish top six then they've probably fallen from said tree and hit every branch on the way down.

[ThePromisedLand]

I think everyone is missing a very important point here.

It's not signing the likes of Cafu, Fred, Diallo and Blackett to blame for our form and performances. Those players are not playing so how can that be the reason? It makes no sense at all.

Plus there are plenty of players who were doing very well at the club last season who are still at the club and yet for whatever reason this season they are just not doing it. Samba, Ribeiro, Yates, Lolley, Ameobi, Grabban to name 6.

So where does the problem lie Sniff?
It clearly ain’t working so far.
How long before Hughton comes under pressure ( and NO I’m not suggesting anything )?
I’m just genuinely curious as to your take on the situation - if it is going wrong at who’s door does the problem lie? ( If I was EM I would already be asking some pretty searching questions given my investment )?

Or - as I am beginning to think - are we just bloody cursed? Payback time for all that success we had under Cloughie?

[ThePromisedLand]

We signed 3 players who were promoted with Fulham last season!

Knockaert, Christie, Arter,  then proven Championship performers in Freedman, Taylor, and Colback, then add Scottish International Mckenna to the likes of what we already had in Grabban, Lolley, Worrall, Ameobi, Ribeireo etc. For some reason these players are just not doing it but nots let kid ourselves that they aren't good enough. I reckon those who think that are barking up the wrong tree.

That's correct.

My Fulham supporting mate said that Knockaert contributed very little and they only signed him because it was a compulsory deal. He said that barring a six game run where everything he hit went in Arter was only being played due to nepotism. He told me that Christie cannot defend and at times was overlooked to play a centre back at right back instead of him.

I think he was right on all counts from what I had seen of them last season and I am not a scout paid to look at them in the level of detail that one should before bringing them in.

Colback has never won games single handidly, or even majorly influenced them, he goes around tidily doing what he does. That's the extent of it.

Dan Harding was promoted with Southampton, as was Danny Collins, as was Danny Fox, there are plenty of examples where average players go up from this division because with their limited abilities they happen to compliment the sum of their larger parts, hence my emphasis on Mr Hughton finding a magic formula.

If anyone thinks that this squad of players is good enough to finish top six then they've probably fallen from said tree and hit every branch on the way down.

Difficult to argue with that.
I was seriously underwhelmed with the signings of both Arter & Christie but admit to being excited about Knockaert ( he will surely not be staying beyond January ).

[Username]

I mean, we can argue all day about players, the board, and what ever else,  but if you had been promoted at work to take over a team of lads what were performing well then you would still expect them to perform well with you in charge, f**k knows what hughtons teaching them in training but we have gone back over from sabri, i feel like i did when was oneill was here, gutted, we have another stubborn manager who wont play youth, wont admit we are playing S**t under, doing stupid stuff like having 3 full backs on the bench, fair play to the bloke he got promotion with newcastle and brighton, but the squads they had at the time most managers would, we can defend, cant pass, dont have game plans, sorry thats not down to 14 players coming in, thats down to management,  folk saying give hughton time, hes had more time than when bristol, watford, bournmouth, reading did when they brought new managers in, they came in for the short preseason, they all brought in a new style and players, and they are all top six, norwich brought a S**t load of players in, alot from abroad, no unrest there, top of the league, its only gonna get worse cause iv heard a few teams are sniffing around mighten, everyone could go round in circles all day with arguments, we need to change it up and get us back to our best, attack, goals win games, we set up for shitty 1.0 smash and grab wins, we concede and think f**k that, if chris cant sort it by jan then you know hes a goner..

To be honest I don't think we are set-up for shitty smash and grabs, the games prior to Bournemouth have been extremely open affairs (too much so for my liking). The Barnsley match could easily have been 3-2 at Half Time.

The Bournemouth match was different because Mr Hughton wanted to condense the space, a tactic that was exposed after 236 seconds. I don't blame the manager for that necessarily, he had an inferior group of players against a team that had largely just been relegated from the PRemier League.

Anyway, this is miles off topic. The question is, what does the big man think of where we are right now given the circumstances?

[Username]

I think everyone is missing a very important point here.

It's not signing the likes of Cafu, Fred, Diallo and Blackett to blame for our form and performances. Those players are not playing so how can that be the reason? It makes no sense at all.

Plus there are plenty of players who were doing very well at the club last season who are still at the club and yet for whatever reason this season they are just not doing it. Samba, Ribeiro, Yates, Lolley, Ameobi, Grabban to name 6.

So where does the problem lie Sniff?
It clearly ain’t working so far.
How long before Hughton comes under pressure ( and NO I’m not suggesting anything )?
I’m just genuinely curious as to your take on the situation - if it is going wrong at who’s door does the problem lie? ( If I was EM I would already be asking some pretty searching questions given my investment )?

Or - as I am beginning to think - are we just bloody cursed? Payback time for all that success we had under Cloughie?

Hi TPL, these are exactly the questions I was asking as part of my long winded post.

I'm genuinely keen to know.

[Alf]

See Christie I think is a decent/good FB at this level, but for a Warburton team where you attack heavily, and go out to win games 4-3. Not a Hughton team where the bias is more defensive.

I'm not saying Warburton is a better manager, but I think his methods would get more out this current squad with the players at his disposal than Hughton. We'd prob concede 2/game, but when you've Taylor, Grabban, Lolley, Ameobi, Freeman etc. all able to score plenty at the other end, I reckon we'd be scoring 2 or 3 at the other end too under him.

Our fullbacks positions are a big concern, as is the Figs CB position, using our current methods. We're so frail I hope Hughton sticks with 2 forwards, and looks to get them the best service possible, as opposed to trying to build a team on tight defending. That aint happening any time soon.

[Username]

All good points but probably something for another thread mate.