Your Thoughts On The Current Nottingham Forest Manager

[stirred]

Good link Jock, sounds depressingly familiar. E.g.
“Resisting repeated calls to field two strikers, he persisted with one up front, resulting in a litany of draws and one of the division’s best defensive records. In reality the system itself was not so much a problem as his rigid, low-risk interpretation of it, which often left Negredo isolated and led to his team-mates being censured for attempting to “mix things up” by sometimes unleashing long, early balls.”

When people say to give Karanka more time, apart from the 27 or whatever matches he’s had here, I look at his past record. And that suggests more of the same to come.

I’m also not impressed with how he built that promotion team at Boro. Over 40 signings in a couple of years sounds more like trial and error than targeting players and working with them to improve them, ie coaching.

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If Marinakis does sack him this early I'll be worried for the future under his ownership to be honest. Very rare a team goes up or gets any success from this league by twisting over and over again in a short space of time.

He'll be looking at it the other way around. He's got a fortune invested & he won't want to gamble it on faith, with no results to back them up. If he thinks plan A isn't going to work he'll want enough time to deploy plan B.

The more money on the table the more pressure.

What's the plan though? Spend £20m in transfer window, sack manager in the following 5-6 months, hire another manager, spend another £20m in the next transfer window, sack manager in the following 5-6 months and so on? He might get success like that in a one horse race in Greece, he won't here, I'm hoping he displays some patience.

The plan is spend the money we've spent, & then get promotion. Failure to achieve that will cost. Therefore the bet is all about the now & as such he can't be sentimental, he's all in, if that means changing horses he'll change horses.

It's not the way I would have done things, I wouldn't have hired Karanka, I'd have spent less, & what I would have spent would have been used to build around the kids, then nurtured, & wait for proof of progress before any big splurge, but having gone the route we have there can be no failure & no patience, or nurture. It's win or pay the price.

It's not my choice, but now the choice has been made we have to back the project & over the manager, if need be.

Karanka is easier to replace than the money wasted if this doesn't work.

I actually think we have a very good squad, although the last week via injury and losing Brereton in the window with no incomings tempers my optimism a bit. I’d give Karanka more time, but if I moved for a replacement I’d be asking them if they think they could by and large work with our current squad rather than target a major rebuiild.

[Huddersz]

I for one am trying to remain optimistic at the moment. We haven't had the much vaunted see where we are in 10 games scenario yet so would rather see if given the international break if AK can turn things round.

[Kylos247]

I think the home games will determine his destiny Rotherham and sheff? 2 games we should be winning at home. Fingers crossed.
Don't want a merry go round but I also don't want to keep seeing lacklustre performances. 2 full 90 mins of decent football is all we've had. We're no better than last season, he loves Watson who imo is just not good enough. Bridcutt much better player. His stubbornness now is getting as annoying as when we had the breadman.

[wassy04]

That’s what frustrates me it’s the stubborness that it has to work with his method or nothing else. Where’s the experimentation and what’s the plan if his tactics are being nullified like the last three league games.

I don’t want him out purely because I’m sick of sacking managers however on the other hand I can’t say I expect him to turn it around either. I also think it’s possibly slightly unfair to use his time at boro against hingiven it was his first role. On the other hand I would hope to see some signs he’s learning from his previous mistakes which there has been little sign of this.

[PsychoStooge]

That’s what frustrates me it’s the stubborness that it has to work with his method or nothing else. Where’s the experimentation and what’s the plan if his tactics are being nullified like the last three league games.

I don’t want him out purely because I’m sick of sacking managers however on the other hand I can’t say I expect him to turn it around either. I also think it’s possibly slightly unfair to use his time at boro against hingiven it was his first role. On the other hand I would hope to see some signs he’s learning from his previous mistakes which there has been little sign of this.

He has experimented though and when he does and it doesn't work people give him shit, he played 3 at the back against I believe Sheffield United last season, it didn't work and he got pelters. More or less played 4-4-2 with Soudani off Murphy last week at Birmingham, didn't work and he got shit again. 

People have basically made their minds up about him and it's clear that quite a few fans don't want him to succeed so they're looking for every little fault, I'm not saying you're one of them by the way, just following on from my original reply to you.

I'm sick of us sacking managers every 6-7-8 months, fans play a big role in that then wonder why we can't generate any momentum, it's because we haven't given any manager enough time since Billy Davies about 10 years ago. A lot of people are so desperate for instant gratification that they don't think of the consequences.

[wassy04]

As I said one of the other threads I’ve no interest in sacking him, so sick of constantly rotating managers. Equally though it’s really difficult to back a manager when you can see really blatant mistakes being made and not being corrected. In Karanka’s defence we did change tactics a bit in the second half and produced a competitive performance. The defenders suddenly were able to play passes in between the pressed up Brentford midfield and defence. Passes which should always be on if a team is pressing so hard. We also pressed higher which helped. I wouldn’t expect to dominate a game away at a good team but it’s just nice to feel like you’re in the game.

I just can’t get behind the three passes at the back then go long to the wing. That should be the low percentage low use ball not the stock option

[PsychoStooge]

I'm sick of us sacking managers every 6-7-8 months, fans play a big role in that then wonder why we can't generate any momentum, it's because we haven't given any manager enough time since Billy Davies about 10 years ago. A lot of people are so desperate for instant gratification that they don't think of the consequences.

That's why I wouldn't have appointed this manager, or spent what we did, how we did. It was a high risk strategy, with a high risk of continuing the managerial merry-go-round.

This is fairly typical new owner stuff though, sack the sitting manager & bring in an "iconic" name & throw a few quid at it thinking it's just all that easy, think McLiesh replacing O'Driscoll, or Brum sacking Rowett & bringing in Zola. Reality is often much harder though & often forces a rethink.

Yeah hindsight is 20:20 though, you could use that argument if any manager had started this way. 

Out of interest who would you have hired?

[PsychoStooge]

I'm sick of us sacking managers every 6-7-8 months, fans play a big role in that then wonder why we can't generate any momentum, it's because we haven't given any manager enough time since Billy Davies about 10 years ago. A lot of people are so desperate for instant gratification that they don't think of the consequences.

That's why I wouldn't have appointed this manager, or spent what we did, how we did. It was a high risk strategy, with a high risk of continuing the managerial merry-go-round.

This is fairly typical new owner stuff though, sack the sitting manager & bring in an "iconic" name & throw a few quid at it thinking it's just all that easy, think McLiesh replacing O'Driscoll, or Brum sacking Rowett & bringing in Zola. Reality is often much harder though & often forces a rethink.

Yeah hindsight is 20:20 though, you could use that argument if any manager had started this way. 

Out of interest who would you have hired?

If I was owner I'd have appointed a Warburton type manager, built the foundations & then worried about throwing money at it once we'd done the basics & were ready to kick on.

We're currently not doing the basics right & we have to get back to our A, B, C's because if you don't get the basics right it's very hard to get anything else right.

Nice sentiment but it wouldn't have washed with our fans, don't forget we did have Warburton and plenty of people were calling for his head by mid-December. 

I agree for what it's worth, like I said too many want instant gratification that's why no manager gets time to instil the basics, it's also why I hope Marinakis ignores the growing calls for Karanka to be sacked.

[PsychoStanleyStone]

 I’m sick of sacking managers however on the other hand I can’t say I expect him to turn it around either.

A lot of people are so desperate for instant gratification that they don't think of the consequences.

The facts imo are that AK was brought in for 'instant gratification', old players, some with maybe less than a season left to give, loans, revolving door, 23 signings, cheque book, no time for developing the youngsters, this is all about instant gratification, success ... or potentially bust.

The last 8 months is the definition of instant gratification which always ends in misery, this is why we are all so miserable now.

I believe Marinakis thought he still had a shot at the play offs last January and that AK was the man to spend the money this season, do the hatchet jobs and get 'instant gratification'.  When you take away the aged, the loans, the mercenaries, the weird signings that haven't or didn't even get on the pitch there isn't very much long termism, yes 2 or 3 good players maybe tick all the boxes of long term.  

Brentford have integrity and strategy and provide entertainment, we are further away now from anything long term and sustainable than ever.  

Besides the revolving door and cheque book and desperation there are other questions over the teams integrity, the lack of entertainment, on field ambition to win, it's not just the negative tactics but also a lot of unsporting behavior. 

If instant gratification usually results in misery, maybe the way we are all feeling now is poetic justice?

[Hyperkoi]

Personal opinion based on Olympiakis, he has 5 or 6 games to show major improvement. Probably has to win 2 of theses with no big losses. If not then Marinakis will move him out. Don't agree with this but gut feel says that's all he has got.

[PsychoStooge]

 I’m sick of sacking managers however on the other hand I can’t say I expect him to turn it around either.

A lot of people are so desperate for instant gratification that they don't think of the consequences.

The facts imo are that AK was brought in for 'instant gratification', old players, some with maybe less than a season left to give, loans, revolving door, 23 signings, cheque book, no time for developing the youngsters, this is all about instant gratification, success ... or potentially bust.

The last 8 months is the definition of instant gratification which always ends in misery, this is why we are all so miserable now.

I believe Marinakis thought he still had a shot at the play offs last January and that AK was the man to spend the money this season, do the hatchet jobs and get 'instant gratification'.  When you take away the aged, the loans, the mercenaries, the weird signings that haven't or didn't even get on the pitch there isn't very much long termism, yes 2 or 3 good players maybe tick all the boxes of long term.  

Brentford have integrity and strategy and provide entertainment, we are further away now from anything long term and sustainable than ever.  

Besides the revolving door and cheque book and desperation there are other questions over the teams integrity, the lack of entertainment, on field ambition to win, it's not just the negative tactics but also a lot of unsporting behavior. 

If instant gratification usually results in misery, maybe the way we are all feeling now is poetic justice?

This is what I'm saying though... Initially when Warburton was hired and we were told it'd be a slow build the fans were happy with that... for about 2 months and then they got bored and wanted to know why we weren't winning every game or in the top 6 etc. what is the board supposed to do in that situation? Ignore the fans or give them what they want? They elected to try and give them what they wanted now we're 6 games into a new season and the fans are fed up again, so what are the board supposed to do now? Twist again or try something different and stick for a while?

[Strawberry Avenger]

"Brentford have integrity and strategy and provide entertainment..."

Can't argue with that. And they have a new ground to move into in the next year or so.

I'd love Forest to have Brentford's scouting network...

Quite liked their Ollie Watkins too...he got the goal while our CHs were knapping?

SA.