Who's To Blame For Recruitment. Hughton Or Our New CEO?

[Jean_claude_killy]

Remember the last guy had 8 windows and left us in this hole too for balance please. Let's see where we are in 8 windows time with Murphy in terms of judging recruitments.

The last CEO left us short during a few of those windows too, then role reversed it last summer by buying a whole new squad. Just remember who we bought in when we were going for it under lamouchi.....

Murphy has a budget to work with that none of us know what it is, he has barely had time to think about the finances in the time he has been here. Jumping on him after 6 weeks is nothing short of ridiculous in my book. The players he as brought in so far have been a class above of what were used too. So let's settle down and see how he does.

The last CEO was responsible for a lot of bad things, not least the waste of signing the likes of Arter, Jenkinson and Bong; for balance, he was also responsible for a lot of good things: we are financially sound compared to most clubs in our Division for example.

Another example of the good work Vrentzos did was the situation regarding player contracts expiring at the end of last season and at the end of this season; most of the hard work had been done, all that the new guy had to do was sign some replacements, and lets face it, some of the replacements would not have to be great to be better than those who have just gone.

Everyone at the Club and amongst the support base were aware how badly resourced we were/are as a squad, everyone that is apart from the CEO - well, that is the impression given from the casual nature of our recruitment.

I am not entertaining any facile arguments about perceived budgets; if Murphy does not have the headroom in the budget handed down to him, he certainly has valuable resources he can trade with; these are the big decisions that CEOs have to make, that is why they get the big bucks.

I am not entertaining any facile arguments about how many windows he needs to shape the squad; the FACTS are he has just the two to save us from relegation; yes, things are that bad.

And I will tell you what; if Murphy has anything of substance about him that can back up his reputation, he will agree with every word of that.

You can fix what he has been left with in one window is somewhat ambitious in my eyes and somewhat unreasonable on Murphys part considering the hand he has been dealt. I'd say a pair of 6's at best. 

In terms of assets he can sell, but someone has to buy, but on that note and you do make some very valid points I may add too that this window would of been very different had Worrall gone to Brentford as we thought he would. But that fell through and nobody has matched it since or even tried matching it. Do you think it would of been a different window had that sale gone through? 

With the likes of jenkinson and arter on the contracts they were put on by the previous CEO makes it a very difficult window.

No, you make it sound as if Murphy has just walked in off of the street and has had to start from scratch; that is not the case.

He could have displayed more urgency and used those legendary negotiating skills of his to greater effect and had a few players through the door before a ball was kicked.

Now he is operating from a position of weakness and will end up paying more for the players we sign.

Do not confuse what needs doing now with the grand strategic plan for our recruitment; that will take a considerable time to perfect and will run in parallel.

[Marinakis Red]

Remember the last guy had 8 windows and left us in this hole too for balance please. Let's see where we are in 8 windows time with Murphy in terms of judging recruitments.

The last CEO left us short during a few of those windows too, then role reversed it last summer by buying a whole new squad. Just remember who we bought in when we were going for it under lamouchi.....

Murphy has a budget to work with that none of us know what it is, he has barely had time to think about the finances in the time he has been here. Jumping on him after 6 weeks is nothing short of ridiculous in my book. The players he as brought in so far have been a class above of what were used too. So let's settle down and see how he does.

The last CEO was responsible for a lot of bad things, not least the waste of signing the likes of Arter, Jenkinson and Bong; for balance, he was also responsible for a lot of good things: we are financially sound compared to most clubs in our Division for example.

Another example of the good work Vrentzos did was the situation regarding player contracts expiring at the end of last season and at the end of this season; most of the hard work had been done, all that the new guy had to do was sign some replacements, and lets face it, some of the replacements would not have to be great to be better than those who have just gone.

Everyone at the Club and amongst the support base were aware how badly resourced we were/are as a squad, everyone that is apart from the CEO - well, that is the impression given from the casual nature of our recruitment.

I am not entertaining any facile arguments about perceived budgets; if Murphy does not have the headroom in the budget handed down to him, he certainly has valuable resources he can trade with; these are the big decisions that CEOs have to make, that is why they get the big bucks.

I am not entertaining any facile arguments about how many windows he needs to shape the squad; the FACTS are he has just the two to save us from relegation; yes, things are that bad.

And I will tell you what; if Murphy has anything of substance about him that can back up his reputation, he will agree with every word of that.

You can fix what he has been left with in one window is somewhat ambitious in my eyes and somewhat unreasonable on Murphys part considering the hand he has been dealt. I'd say a pair of 6's at best. 

In terms of assets he can sell, but someone has to buy, but on that note and you do make some very valid points I may add too that this window would of been very different had Worrall gone to Brentford as we thought he would. But that fell through and nobody has matched it since or even tried matching it. Do you think it would of been a different window had that sale gone through? 

With the likes of jenkinson and arter on the contracts they were put on by the previous CEO makes it a very difficult window.

No, you make it sound as if Murphy has just walked in off of the street and has had to start from scratch; that is not the case.

He could have displayed more urgency and used those legendary negotiating skills of his to greater effect and had a few players through the door before a ball was kicked.

Now he is operating from a position of weakness and will end up paying more for the players we sign.

Do not confuse what needs doing now with the grand strategic plan for our recruitment; that will take a considerable time to perfect and will run in parallel.

The here and now he has been left a lot to do so do not underestimate that either. We would potentially been in a better position had we not continually sold youngsters to fund overpaid bloated squads for the last 4 years that have left us in the mess were currently in. He has not walked in to a bed of Rose's by any stretch here. 

Displayed the urgency the previous CEO did in the winter window from a position of strength under lamouchi? Let's be clear here Murphy has the job of cleaning up a lot of mess, mismanagement of transfers that has had considerable effect on how we have had to operate as club. We are still paying the price of that. 

It is a good job tbe previous CEO got good money for players considering he pretty much wasted the majority of it on high paid dross. And quite late in windows too.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

As I was highly critical of our old CEO particularly with regard to recruitment its only fair I acknowledge things are going less than swimmingly with the new one so far. I think it’s slightly different in that we are clearly going after a different type of target and arent waving big cheques at 30 year olds any more but we supposedly have a whole team on the case which has been in place a good few months now.

The big one for me me is the position of Hughton. Its been obvious to most of us that his style and profile is at odds to how Murphy chooses to work. The club knew this too and the direction it wanted to take. It wouldnt have been unreasonable back in May to thank Chris for his mission accomplished, steadied the ship and kept us up but we are taking a different path now. He leaves with his head held high and the club doesnt look a laughing stock.

We all want stability and that is why we backed him for the season but it seems ridiculous that having made that decision we now back track on it 3 games in to the new season. We dont know that the club is thinking the same the fans are but to me the writing looks to be on the wall in large letters. A new manager at this stage effectively writes off the season and it hardly looks like a stable ambitious club to those players we are trying to bring in. I often look on other fans forum s when we are linked with new players to see what they think. The remark I see most commonly is “Forest? Why would player X want to go to that shambles of a club?” Its hard to disagree.

[Widdow]

You do all realise Vrenetzoz (how every you spell it) is still a director working over the summer with Dane. Perhaps he could use some of these contacts, help show him how he gets deals over the line?

[Marinakis Red]

You do all realise Vrenetzoz (how every you spell it) is still a director working over the summer with Dane. Perhaps he could use some of these contacts, help show him how he gets deals over the line?

We would end up with Bong, Arter, and Jenkinson on inflated wages though Widdow   :D

[Paplane]

You do all realise Vrenetzoz (how every you spell it) is still a director working over the summer with Dane. Perhaps he could use some of these contacts, help show him how he gets deals over the line?

We would end up with Bong, Arter, and Jenkinson on inflated wages though Widdow   :D

All three are arguably better options than what we have now, which is nothing.

[JollyLolly]

Are we seeing a power struggle creating a vacuum between the old existing ideas (CH) and the new way forward (DM) which may be the reason behind the transfer issues? DM being just through the door at the club can probably see things need to change while CH is set on how he wants to move the club forward. Players have been identified so DM plays hard ball with the available funds as a form of smoke screen to see if CH will walk before he has to sack him due to the poor start to the season. This would create a win win situation for the new CEO pointing out it was CH decision to leave creating the mess that he now needs to resolve which would be based on his own ideas, just a thought to put out there!

[Strawberry Avenger]

Marinakis Red Wrote:
(1 hour ago)Jean_claude_killy Wrote:
(1 hour ago)Marinakis Red Wrote:
It has been a frustrating window with values, but that happens when you target players of quality and players people do not want to sell on the cheap. I can defo see a sale coming on so we can plug some of these holes in the remaining days of the window.

I would not be so certain what with Mark "Derisory Offer" Arthur being in charge of negotiations, Oh!

I'm intrigued to know who you would target and what you would do in the current situation though. Rather than trying to be shall we say very harsh on someone who has been in the club 6 weeks.

But people don't mind being 'harsh' on Hughton who has yet to have a permanent signing over two Summer transfer windows.  Car crash injuries to his defensive line.  (And that's where the goals came from.  All of them so far.  Defensive errors.)

In fact, Forest are weaker.  Than last season.  If that's possible.  And that means, from top of bottom 8, there is only one way to go.  DOWN.

Garner.  Was a loan.  Not replaced.
Krov'.  Loan.  Not replaced (and Brennan is nowhere near as intricate with his hold up play.)
4 LBs.  Not a single one replaced.
Still waiting for a striker with younger legs.
Fullback positions are left to rookies. We haven't replaced Christie or Rib'.
CHs.  No depth.  (Figs wasn't blessed last season, and was part culpable for one of the two goals vs Blackburn.)
More powerful winger.  (It's clear Lolley has been struggling and is no where near his best.  We've brought in Zinc Man.  That's it.  But we need more than 1 winger to be top 6.)

New CEO.  'Get in there, that's what you're paid for.'

SA.

[Jean_claude_killy]

Are we seeing a power struggle creating a vacuum between the old existing ideas (CH) and the new way forward (DM) which may be the reason behind the transfer issues? DM being just through the door at the club can probably see things need to change while CH is set on how he wants to move the club forward. Players have been identified so DM plays hard ball with the available funds as a form of smoke screen to see if CH will walk before he has to sack him due to the poor start to the season. This would create a win win situation for the new CEO pointing out it was CH decision to leave creating the mess that he now needs to resolve which would be based on his own ideas, just a thought to put out there!

No, definitely not.

Murphy has two primary streams of work to deal with; the Operational - the day to day running of things, and the Strategic - his vision of how things need to be run twelve months hence.

Only a complete fool would go into a club, or any business, and attempt to wipe the board clean and impose a new method of working immediately; change will be evolutionary not revolutionary.

The strategic vision will count for little if Murphy falls asleep at the wheel and we end up in League 1

He would have walked in to the job with a full in tray; it is up to him, no one else, to prioritise that work so that things run efficiently.

If things are running efficiently at the moment, lets hope we never have a crisis to deal with.

[Jean_claude_killy]

You do all realise Vrenetzoz (how every you spell it) is still a director working over the summer with Dane. Perhaps he could use some of these contacts, help show him how he gets deals over the line?

We would end up with Bong, Arter, and Jenkinson on inflated wages though Widdow   :D

Do you think that Vrentzos kept the fact that we have expensive failures on our hands from Murphy when he was interviewed for the job?

Murphy accepted that situation, together with all of the other shit when he took the job on; its no good complaining about the situation now.

You do realise that the vast majority of CEOs get their jobs because the previous guy was either a failure or was not doing as expected; that means they all have issues to deal with that will not be to their liking.

Blaming the previous guy does not solve the problem; Murphy will know that more than anyone, and you can be sure he will not use that excuse, because that is all it is, an excuse.

Top level executives should have top level problem solving skills.

[stirred]

It's been interesting reading some of JCK's posts from the last couple of days.

He's a poster who I have great respect for.

He's got me thinking about Murphy.

Is he lacking experience? He's not very old and he had just 2 seasons at Barnsley one which was a success and one that was almost a complete disaster.

Is he out of his depth at Forest? A club with high demands and expectations compared with Barnsley who's demands and expectations are low.

What about his contacts in the game? I know Vrentzos was far from perfect but his contacts in football are massive, can we say the same about Dane?

This post is not critical in anyway I just want to put it out there for debate because JCK has really got me thinking with some of his comments recently.

Harsh to describe his first season as almost a complete disaster? Club was promoted from league one the previous season, had a small budget by championship standards, sold Kieffer Moore and Ethan Pinnock making a net profit in transfers and stayed up?

I took the transfer activity from transfermarkt. FYI they signed 15 players that year!

[Strawberry Avenger]

You do all realise Vrenetzoz (how every you spell it) is still a director working over the summer with Dane. Perhaps he could use some of these contacts, help show him how he gets deals over the line?

We would end up with Bong, Arter, and Jenkinson on inflated wages though Widdow   :D

Do you think that Vrentzos kept the fact that we have expensive failures on our hands from Murphy when he was interviewed for the job?

Murphy accepted that situation, together with all of the other S**t when he took the job on; its no good complaining about the situation now.

You do realise that the vast majority of CEOs get their jobs because the previous guy was either a failure or was not doing as expected; that means they all have issues to deal with that will not be to their liking.

Blaming the previous guy does not solve the problem; Murphy will know that more than anyone, and you can be sure he will not use that excuse, because that is all it is, an excuse.

Top level executives should have top level problem solving skills.

Yep.  He's paid alot of money to get on with it.

To me, a sluggish and erratic start.  So far, we have a decent keeper.  1 unfit player.  And 1, yes, excellent player in Zinc Man.  Those are the facts of the matter so far on the pitch. 1 fit outfield player. And he's a loan. Not even 'ours.'

And key positions, LB, CM, Striker have gone vacant to start a new season.  And predictably enough teams targeted Forest's fullbacks (for the 2nd season in a row) because, now, we're inexplicably weaker than last season.  That's down to the CEO.  It's his job to get the players in.  Dane was late in.  But he knew the job.  It's cost 9 points so far.  And probably another 3 vs Stoke.  

It hasn't felt 'urgent' enough.  We've lost 3 straight (close) games so far.  Forest are competing but aren't competitive.  Hughton isn't a miracle worker.

SA.