Crap Referees

[wassy04]

Changing from Coopers low block is like Brexit. Nobody wants to admit that it's f****d us because it makes people wrong. 

Burnley at home was the seasons turning point. Yes we've been shafted by refs but for some deranged reason we prioritised playing style over safely. We had a winning formula and threw it out the window.

Tom, medium and long term you can't build a sustainable side based on Cooper's low block football. It might work for games against the top sides where you have to stay in the game or you get murdered but for games against your equals you have to at least try to show some intent. Last season was last season, our first back in the prem. All that mattered was to finish 17th, by hook or by crook. It worked, Cooper had the balls to change his style after the Leicester away game. This season was different. There was more quality coming in and we had a platform from which to build from. It was a natural thing to try to be more progressive but Cooper couldn't find a way to do it.  Nuno came in and changed the approach and we looked half decent. Then it all went wrong with injuries, afcon, var, psr.

I like your posts, you are generally balanced and well thought out but this seems to give Nuno a cop out. 

Despite all of the points highlighted we’ve still not been good enough under Nuno as a whole. There has been no fighting spirit or siege mentality that should by rights be pretty easy to garner given the circumstances. 

We’ve just become a group of whinging victims limping from defeat to defeat.

Yeah a 2 game new manager bounce is pretty standard. 

Luton have had significantly worse injuries and absences than we have so I don't think we can be throwing that one around.

Also, Dyche's teams do alright with low block style of football. There's plenty of ways to win, predominantly best approach is to play to your strengths.

[Paplane]

Changing from Coopers low block is like Brexit. Nobody wants to admit that it's f****d us because it makes people wrong. 

Burnley at home was the seasons turning point. Yes we've been shafted by refs but for some deranged reason we prioritised playing style over safely. We had a winning formula and threw it out the window.

Tom, medium and long term you can't build a sustainable side based on Cooper's low block football. It might work for games against the top sides where you have to stay in the game or you get murdered but for games against your equals you have to at least try to show some intent. Last season was last season, our first back in the prem. All that mattered was to finish 17th, by hook or by crook. It worked, Cooper had the balls to change his style after the Leicester away game. This season was different. There was more quality coming in and we had a platform from which to build from. It was a natural thing to try to be more progressive but Cooper couldn't find a way to do it.  Nuno came in and changed the approach and we looked half decent. Then it all went wrong with injuries, afcon, var, psr.

I like your posts, you are generally balanced and well thought out but this seems to give Nuno a cop out. 

Despite all of the points highlighted we’ve still not been good enough under Nuno as a whole. There has been no fighting spirit or siege mentality that should by rights be pretty easy to garner given the circumstances. 

We’ve just become a group of whinging victims limping from defeat to defeat.

I agree that Nuno seems incapable of generating any fighting spirit and that unfortunately may be his undoing here. I don't think he's equipped to fight a fight. His answer to how we move on is always 'work harder'. And his disregard of our weakness at set plays is ridiculous. But, I've seen enough from him to know that we have quality. When we play, we can really play. It's in us. I do honestly believe all the factors I've mentioned make this season look entirely different had they not occurred. If we go down every aspect of the club will need to take some responsibility. It wont just be Nuno's fault.

[Marinakis Red]

Changing from Coopers low block is like Brexit. Nobody wants to admit that it's f****d us because it makes people wrong. 

Burnley at home was the seasons turning point. Yes we've been shafted by refs but for some deranged reason we prioritised playing style over safely. We had a winning formula and threw it out the window.

Tom, medium and long term you can't build a sustainable side based on Cooper's low block football. It might work for games against the top sides where you have to stay in the game or you get murdered but for games against your equals you have to at least try to show some intent. Last season was last season, our first back in the prem. All that mattered was to finish 17th, by hook or by crook. It worked, Cooper had the balls to change his style after the Leicester away game. This season was different. There was more quality coming in and we had a platform from which to build from. It was a natural thing to try to be more progressive but Cooper couldn't find a way to do it.  Nuno came in and changed the approach and we looked half decent. Then it all went wrong with injuries, afcon, var, psr.

I like your posts, you are generally balanced and well thought out but this seems to give Nuno a cop out. 

Despite all of the points highlighted we’ve still not been good enough under Nuno as a whole. There has been no fighting spirit or siege mentality that should by rights be pretty easy to garner given the circumstances. 

We’ve just become a group of whinging victims limping from defeat to defeat.

Yeah a 2 game new manager bounce is pretty standard. 

Luton have had significantly worse injuries and absences than we have so I don't think we can be throwing that one around.

Also, Dyche's teams do alright with low block style of football. There's plenty of ways to win, predominantly best approach is to play to your strengths.

To be fair if you go back 2 weeks, Everton were on there longest ever winless run in the prem of 13 games. How do you think he would have faired not winning in 13 games here?

The pressure would have been ridiculous.

[Paplane]

Changing from Coopers low block is like Brexit. Nobody wants to admit that it's f****d us because it makes people wrong. 

Burnley at home was the seasons turning point. Yes we've been shafted by refs but for some deranged reason we prioritised playing style over safely. We had a winning formula and threw it out the window.

Tom, medium and long term you can't build a sustainable side based on Cooper's low block football. It might work for games against the top sides where you have to stay in the game or you get murdered but for games against your equals you have to at least try to show some intent. Last season was last season, our first back in the prem. All that mattered was to finish 17th, by hook or by crook. It worked, Cooper had the balls to change his style after the Leicester away game. This season was different. There was more quality coming in and we had a platform from which to build from. It was a natural thing to try to be more progressive but Cooper couldn't find a way to do it.  Nuno came in and changed the approach and we looked half decent. Then it all went wrong with injuries, afcon, var, psr.

I like your posts, you are generally balanced and well thought out but this seems to give Nuno a cop out. 

Despite all of the points highlighted we’ve still not been good enough under Nuno as a whole. There has been no fighting spirit or siege mentality that should by rights be pretty easy to garner given the circumstances. 

We’ve just become a group of whinging victims limping from defeat to defeat.

Yeah a 2 game new manager bounce is pretty standard. 

Luton have had significantly worse injuries and absences than we have so I don't think we can be throwing that one around.

Also, Dyche's teams do alright with low block style of football. There's plenty of ways to win, predominantly best approach is to play to your strengths.

Tosh Wassy (with respect). Firstly, it would have been a 3 game bounce had Boly not been sent off by a crimnal ref decision.  And what Luton's injury record has to do with our season is irrelevant. Had they not had their injuries then maybe they would be sitting comfortably mid-table now. And re Dyche, he doesn't play low block. Everton don't camp in their own half at home and get 20% possession and rely on a counter attack to nick a single goal. They're direct when they need to be and excel at set-plays but they do try to play.

[wassy04]

Changing from Coopers low block is like Brexit. Nobody wants to admit that it's f****d us because it makes people wrong. 

Burnley at home was the seasons turning point. Yes we've been shafted by refs but for some deranged reason we prioritised playing style over safely. We had a winning formula and threw it out the window.

Tom, medium and long term you can't build a sustainable side based on Cooper's low block football. It might work for games against the top sides where you have to stay in the game or you get murdered but for games against your equals you have to at least try to show some intent. Last season was last season, our first back in the prem. All that mattered was to finish 17th, by hook or by crook. It worked, Cooper had the balls to change his style after the Leicester away game. This season was different. There was more quality coming in and we had a platform from which to build from. It was a natural thing to try to be more progressive but Cooper couldn't find a way to do it.  Nuno came in and changed the approach and we looked half decent. Then it all went wrong with injuries, afcon, var, psr.

I like your posts, you are generally balanced and well thought out but this seems to give Nuno a cop out. 

Despite all of the points highlighted we’ve still not been good enough under Nuno as a whole. There has been no fighting spirit or siege mentality that should by rights be pretty easy to garner given the circumstances. 

We’ve just become a group of whinging victims limping from defeat to defeat.

Yeah a 2 game new manager bounce is pretty standard. 

Luton have had significantly worse injuries and absences than we have so I don't think we can be throwing that one around.

Also, Dyche's teams do alright with low block style of football. There's plenty of ways to win, predominantly best approach is to play to your strengths.

Tosh Wassy (with respect). Firstly, it would have been a 3 game bounce had Boly not been sent off by a crimnal ref decision.  And what Luton's injury record has to do with our season is irrelevant. Had they not had their injuries then maybe they would be sitting comfortably mid-table now. And re Dyche, he doesn't play low block. Everton don't camp in their own half at home and get 20% possession and rely on a counter attack to nick a single goal. They're direct when they need to be and excel at set-plays but they do try to play.

You were complaining about AFCON and injuries costing us, just saying the team below us are worse affected so not sure it's a great excuse.

There is no guarantee at all we'd have beaten Bournemouth if Boly stayed on either.

[Paplane]

I'm seeing that Atwell was sent to the monitor last night to look at a replay of a foul before a Wolves goal. Regardless or not of whether the final decision on the goal was right or wrong, the fact that he was asked to go to the monitor is encouraging for me and probably a direct response to the fuss we've kicked up. That element of the VAR process had been eradicated quietly. It just stopped happening for some reason. Glad it's back, it breaks this 'I'm looking out for my mates' culture they have which imo is the reason it stopped. No ref wanted to subject his mate to a 'walk of shame'. Hopefully now they know that's not acceptable.

[Paplane]

Tom, medium and long term you can't build a sustainable side based on Cooper's low block football. It might work for games against the top sides where you have to stay in the game or you get murdered but for games against your equals you have to at least try to show some intent. Last season was last season, our first back in the prem. All that mattered was to finish 17th, by hook or by crook. It worked, Cooper had the balls to change his style after the Leicester away game. This season was different. There was more quality coming in and we had a platform from which to build from. It was a natural thing to try to be more progressive but Cooper couldn't find a way to do it.  Nuno came in and changed the approach and we looked half decent. Then it all went wrong with injuries, afcon, var, psr.

I like your posts, you are generally balanced and well thought out but this seems to give Nuno a cop out. 

Despite all of the points highlighted we’ve still not been good enough under Nuno as a whole. There has been no fighting spirit or siege mentality that should by rights be pretty easy to garner given the circumstances. 

We’ve just become a group of whinging victims limping from defeat to defeat.

Yeah a 2 game new manager bounce is pretty standard. 

Luton have had significantly worse injuries and absences than we have so I don't think we can be throwing that one around.

Also, Dyche's teams do alright with low block style of football. There's plenty of ways to win, predominantly best approach is to play to your strengths.

Tosh Wassy (with respect). Firstly, it would have been a 3 game bounce had Boly not been sent off by a crimnal ref decision.  And what Luton's injury record has to do with our season is irrelevant. Had they not had their injuries then maybe they would be sitting comfortably mid-table now. And re Dyche, he doesn't play low block. Everton don't camp in their own half at home and get 20% possession and rely on a counter attack to nick a single goal. They're direct when they need to be and excel at set-plays but they do try to play.

You were complaining about AFCON and injuries costing us, just saying the team below us are worse affected so not sure it's a great excuse.

There is no guarantee at all we'd have beaten Bournemouth if Boly stayed on either.

So no injuries to us and Luton and we're both maybe mid-table. Cant see why you cant see that. Take the star striker out of any side and they struggle. That's happened to both clubs this year. Brentford have also had injuries, and they've been struggling too. You cant idly say it's not a factor for any side. But for us we've also suffered with the disruption of AFCON, PSR and dodgy VAR calls on top. No other club has had to deal with injuries and all of the other stuff.

Look, I think the players and coach could/should be doing better. All I'm saying is they're only human and sometimes external factors have an effect.

[wassy04]

I like your posts, you are generally balanced and well thought out but this seems to give Nuno a cop out. 

Despite all of the points highlighted we’ve still not been good enough under Nuno as a whole. There has been no fighting spirit or siege mentality that should by rights be pretty easy to garner given the circumstances. 

We’ve just become a group of whinging victims limping from defeat to defeat.

Yeah a 2 game new manager bounce is pretty standard. 

Luton have had significantly worse injuries and absences than we have so I don't think we can be throwing that one around.

Also, Dyche's teams do alright with low block style of football. There's plenty of ways to win, predominantly best approach is to play to your strengths.

Tosh Wassy (with respect). Firstly, it would have been a 3 game bounce had Boly not been sent off by a crimnal ref decision.  And what Luton's injury record has to do with our season is irrelevant. Had they not had their injuries then maybe they would be sitting comfortably mid-table now. And re Dyche, he doesn't play low block. Everton don't camp in their own half at home and get 20% possession and rely on a counter attack to nick a single goal. They're direct when they need to be and excel at set-plays but they do try to play.

You were complaining about AFCON and injuries costing us, just saying the team below us are worse affected so not sure it's a great excuse.

There is no guarantee at all we'd have beaten Bournemouth if Boly stayed on either.

So no injuries to us and Luton and we're both maybe mid-table. Cant see why you cant see that. Take the star striker out of any side and they struggle. That's happened to both clubs this year. Brentford have also had injuries, and they've been struggling too. You cant idly say it's not a factor for any side. But for us we've also suffered with the disruption of AFCON, PSR and dodgy VAR calls on top. No other club has had to deal with injuries and all of the other stuff.

Look, I think the players and coach could/should be doing better. All I'm saying is they're only human and sometimes external factors have an effect.

Ok but so have every other team, if any team is lucky enough to go a whole year without key injuries they will likely overachieve. We definitely suffered worse with injuries last year than this year. We are pretty far adrift of Everton/Brentford at this point, not convinced a few less injuries miraculously bridges that gap. 7 behind Everton and they've had 4 more taken off than us. 9 behind Brentford and 16 behind Fulham in 13th. Not sure what you're definition of mid table is but we're miles off that.

Obviously these things have all played a part and have cost us. I guess my main argument is that we're not the only club to have had external factors that will have hindered them. Brentford lost their best player due to suspension, Everton got deducted 8 points, Luton have had a crushing injury list along with a serious health issue with their best player. Have we had it worse than them? Perhaps but just not to the extent it's being made out.

This was an easy season to stay up, 17th is likely to be a record low points total. We've had ample opportunities to stay up despite the external issues. Everton is a great comparison, does anyone think they've got a better team than us? They lost more points, DCL injured most of the year etc.

[Trailer Park Tom]

Changing from Coopers low block is like Brexit. Nobody wants to admit that it's f****d us because it makes people wrong. 

Burnley at home was the seasons turning point. Yes we've been shafted by refs but for some deranged reason we prioritised playing style over safely. We had a winning formula and threw it out the window.

Tom, medium and long term you can't build a sustainable side based on Cooper's low block football. It might work for games against the top sides where you have to stay in the game or you get murdered but for games against your equals you have to at least try to show some intent. Last season was last season, our first back in the prem. All that mattered was to finish 17th, by hook or by crook. It worked, Cooper had the balls to change his style after the Leicester away game. This season was different. There was more quality coming in and we had a platform from which to build from. It was a natural thing to try to be more progressive but Cooper couldn't find a way to do it.  Nuno came in and changed the approach and we looked half decent. Then it all went wrong with injuries, afcon, var, psr.

I understand the argument but we were not in a position to do anything other than get points on the board. Premier League sustainability is evolution not revolution. I agree Coopers in possession management isn't good enough but was all the disruption so necessary for a second season side. We were just becoming stable after a season of instability and choose more instability.

[Paplane]

Changing from Coopers low block is like Brexit. Nobody wants to admit that it's f****d us because it makes people wrong. 

Burnley at home was the seasons turning point. Yes we've been shafted by refs but for some deranged reason we prioritised playing style over safely. We had a winning formula and threw it out the window.

Tom, medium and long term you can't build a sustainable side based on Cooper's low block football. It might work for games against the top sides where you have to stay in the game or you get murdered but for games against your equals you have to at least try to show some intent. Last season was last season, our first back in the prem. All that mattered was to finish 17th, by hook or by crook. It worked, Cooper had the balls to change his style after the Leicester away game. This season was different. There was more quality coming in and we had a platform from which to build from. It was a natural thing to try to be more progressive but Cooper couldn't find a way to do it.  Nuno came in and changed the approach and we looked half decent. Then it all went wrong with injuries, afcon, var, psr.

I understand the argument but we were not in a position to do anything other than get points on the board. Premier League sustainability is evolution not revolution. I agree Coopers in possession management isn't good enough but was all the disruption so necessary for a second season side. We were just becoming stable after a season of instability and choose more instability.

It's ok playing low block when you snatch the odd goal and get the odd win. That's fine and fans will accept that to a degree. But when you're playing low block at home against clubs who fans consider to be inferior clubs, and then your luck runs out and you suddenly find you're incapable of nicking that goal then you've got big problems. In fan's & owner's eyes you're playing negative, losing football. It's just not sustainable.

I can remember Mick McCarthy saying the very same thing a few years ago. IIRC he was commentating on a Hughton game when we were struggling.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Changing from Coopers low block is like Brexit. Nobody wants to admit that it's f****d us because it makes people wrong. 

Burnley at home was the seasons turning point. Yes we've been shafted by refs but for some deranged reason we prioritised playing style over safely. We had a winning formula and threw it out the window.

Tom, medium and long term you can't build a sustainable side based on Cooper's low block football. It might work for games against the top sides where you have to stay in the game or you get murdered but for games against your equals you have to at least try to show some intent. Last season was last season, our first back in the prem. All that mattered was to finish 17th, by hook or by crook. It worked, Cooper had the balls to change his style after the Leicester away game. This season was different. There was more quality coming in and we had a platform from which to build from. It was a natural thing to try to be more progressive but Cooper couldn't find a way to do it.  Nuno came in and changed the approach and we looked half decent. Then it all went wrong with injuries, afcon, var, psr.

Correct Pap. Im not completely convinced Nuno is the answer to all our on the pitch problems but I do think he at least tried to get us playing better football. Whether we had a good enough squad to do that with is open to debate, i think we are better than 17th for what its worth.

[Username]

Changing from Coopers low block is like Brexit. Nobody wants to admit that it's f****d us because it makes people wrong. 

Burnley at home was the seasons turning point. Yes we've been shafted by refs but for some deranged reason we prioritised playing style over safely. We had a winning formula and threw it out the window.

Tom, medium and long term you can't build a sustainable side based on Cooper's low block football. It might work for games against the top sides where you have to stay in the game or you get murdered but for games against your equals you have to at least try to show some intent. Last season was last season, our first back in the prem. All that mattered was to finish 17th, by hook or by crook. It worked, Cooper had the balls to change his style after the Leicester away game. This season was different. There was more quality coming in and we had a platform from which to build from. It was a natural thing to try to be more progressive but Cooper couldn't find a way to do it.  Nuno came in and changed the approach and we looked half decent. Then it all went wrong with injuries, afcon, var, psr.

I like your posts, you are generally balanced and well thought out but this seems to give Nuno a cop out. 

Despite all of the points highlighted we’ve still not been good enough under Nuno as a whole. There has been no fighting spirit or siege mentality that should by rights be pretty easy to garner given the circumstances. 

We’ve just become a group of whinging victims limping from defeat to defeat.

I actually think you're quite unfair on Nuno, the players and club in general. Things are not that easy, especially when you consider just how much has been thrown at them. It is demoralising and they are humans.

Cry me a river. 

They’re professionals, extremely well paid professionals that 99% of the people on here would love to take home each week, they need to crack on with the task in hand and do their jobs. 

They’ve failed miserably