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I am going to say that MON's style of football is now outdated and relied on direct balls into zones which is no longer going to win many games at all, the art is to use the ball wisely and not just kick it behind the full backs for wingers to chase down. Zonal direct ball win percentage only averages a 20% chance of winning the ball for an attacking player and then they have to deliver a cross and then on top of that they have to hope the attacker can get on it. Our game already uses that tactic but it also uses other ways of playing which includes ball retention which is something MON's teams didn't do bar Celtic as Scottish teams were shocking. Playing the MON way also means you have to be able absorb and withstand much pressure from the other teams which is not our strongest part. For these reasons it is a no for me.
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22-11-2018, 11:47 AM
(This post was last modified: 22-03-2019, 10:41 AM by Duncan Mckenzie.)
(21-11-2018, 06:44 PM)Paplane Wrote: Martin O'Neil and Roy Keane have been sacked by Ireland today.
Would you swap AK for the pair?
Me, no, but who knows, 4 or 5 bad results before now and Christmas for us and we might eventually get our man!
It means there's some good managerial candidates around at the moment with Jokanovic and Bruce both out of work too.
No thanks.
Martin O'Neil and Keane are best remembered for their contributions under Brian Clough.
Martin the manager, has, like Aitor, been backed with big money under many of his tenure. He'd want that here and does that make him any different to the criticisms of Aitor as a 'check book' manager. (Which maybe true. But most managers who have got teams out of this division have spent money... We now have a manager who can spend wisely. The team is better the squad is deeper. If he doesn't deliver, he'll lose his job like the rest did.)
Martin's football at Leicester was 'direct.' The politest thing you could say. He got them promoted via the play offs by the skin of their teeth and stayed in the Premier for a good few years. Again, I remember the football being 'direct.' He went to Scotland to manager Celtic. I recall one Rangers fan I knew saying that his teams played ugly football that would kick Rangers off the park. Again, 'direct.' That sounds like a downgrade from the Aitor game Forest are currently playing.
Keane. Great player. He's his 'own' man. That aside. As a manager? He got Sunderland promoted. That was it. What else has he done?
Neither have had great footballing ethos or teams that were particularly good footballing sides or technical. Keane blew a lot of money at Ipswich. On mediocre players. Did he get them promoted?
They've been sacked from the national side. Maybe their were 'unlucky.' Or they had what they had to work with.
Either way. Martin had his chance to come at Forest when he was at the 'height' of his managerial powers. Keane? Maybe he had his chance. Nigel Clough too.
They 'all' turned Forest down.
Aitor is getting the job done. This is his first full year in charge of Forest. 7th and flirting with play offs and potentially a top 2 if they put consistency together...is significant progress.
The football is beginning to deliver with time. The side are becoming more consistent. The leaks at the back are beginning to dry up. Note. Fox isn't in the side. Yes, I know his performances were lauded but, Dawson at the back AND Robinson have made a massive difference. But credit Aitor for that. It takes time to do that.
Forest bought a lot of pieces over the eleven months. Takes time for them to settle. And settling they are.
January. LB, DCM enforcer with legs and progressive passing, ACM with experience and match winning capability, Winger with power and pace and experience, STRIKER with power and pace.
SA.
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Forest under Aitor are stubborn, don't lose a lot, they score goals (I thought Aitor sides didn't score goals?), are robust, they learn over time, they gradually get better, mediocre performances don't get suffered by fools. Those players get dropped for the next game.
He'll also give players a chance. Forest have a set way of playing which means the players can gradually learn it and get better at it...or they'll be out and he'll find someone who can learn the system.
We're more bossy in games. We can mix it. We are not the chinless wonders we were under Warburton.
SA.
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MON? I think that boat has sailed.
4 or 5 years ago I would have had him in a flash, not now though thanks.
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(22-11-2018, 01:45 PM)Jasper Scarrott Wrote: MON? I think that boat has sailed.
4 or 5 years ago I would have had him in a flash, not now though thanks.
I agree but I though it was as close as 2 years ago?
I can't remember, was it before Warbs or Montanier that Fawaz made a big move to get him? Anyway, I really, really wanted it to happen at the time and was gutted when he turned us down and signed his new contract at Ireland.
It's funny how perceptions change, we're turning our noses up at him now we're beginning to look good again and he's struggled of late.
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(21-11-2018, 11:09 PM)the jock Wrote: Ireland's style of play was shocking.
All the players hated Keane. He really is hated nobody likes him. I couldnt see it working now.
Keane seems to loose it when things go awry. He can't seem to accept it and just kicks out at everyone and everything.
If MON is tied to Keane as a pair, then he's going to struggle to get another job. He'd be better off just parting from him and going it alone somewhere IMO. I'm sure someone will want him and I think he's still got one last job in him, but Keane seems to be finihsed in management now.
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No reason for us to be changing manager.
However when we do (nothing lasts forever) I could be tempted to take MON but NOT with Keane.
Mon with Nigel Clough for example would be more appealing in my opinion.
For now though, I am very happy with the job that Karanka is doing.
COYR!
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(22-11-2018, 07:26 AM)Redgirl Wrote: The time has passed, I like to keep ex-players exactly that, ex-players. Was so upset with the Pearce saga, let them stay legends. We have a good manager already.
Eloquently put. :cool:
SA.
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i'd have Stuart Pearce over Karanka everytime, Stuart Pearce was a better manager whichever statistics you look at
Stuart Pearce had heart, passion and personality, yes he could give a good interview, his profit and loss in the transfer market is unparalleled in the last 20 years, he had the balls to put kids into the team including debuts for Ollie Burke and Benny Osborne and unfortunately McLaughlin
Karanka looks vaguely decent but only because he has to spend £30m every 6 months and sign 20 players, he has produced the worst football, the dourest toothless record breaking depression
Why is everyone ignoring the facts? Karanka has to get us promoted, he is failing, spends £30million to create a £10m team, we are exactly the same position this time last year, and we were all quite enjoying the football as it was really an over achieving squad last year, this season is heavily leaning towards underachievement and whichever way you look at it AK's 40 games are largely forgettable, memorable moments of class few and far between
to be honest Martin O'Neil was approached in 1994 and turned us down then, and probably is a bit of spent force now
I would love a partnership, and love to revel in our heritage, Stuart Pearce needed a much more solid, astute coaching team around him, he only spend around £10m and turned a £15m profit, which I appreciate isn't really the objective, no one has had the medusa touch in the transfer market or introducing Burke who sold for £15m?
I do love Roy Keane as in as a pundit, telling it how it is, I miss a meaningful interview with a bit of passion
What does really piss me off is dressing up Karanka as a good manager, if he was a really good manager we would have a team everyone is drooling over, none of the previous managers have had anything like this investment and freedom to hire and fire
Historically November/Dec have been very tough times, nothing is telling me different this time around
The reason I support Nottingham Forest is primarily sentimental, it is M O N, SP, RK , particularly for me Psycho, we have an awesome heritage but seems now we have to feel ashamed to even mention having past heroes back as manager and then we have to pretend Karanka out performed them all, a guy how has to bring in 20 players and still need another 10 in Jan isn't a good manager, an idiot yes, a good manager no.
that ex Fulham bloke has the absolute perfect CV for what we need in the 2nd half of the season, he has performed managerial miracles, all we have now is a guy that buys points and even then he struggles
ThePromisedLand
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At the risk of repeating myself:
Stuart Pearce = absolute legend of a player.
But as a manager - I don’t want him anywhere near this football club.
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(22-11-2018, 09:44 AM)Duncan Mckenzie Wrote: What I will say is that sadly it is now inevitable that everytime we lose a match there will be people clamouring for MON and RK to take over.
This unfortunately is a good point and one we can do without but it is inevitable.
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Interesting reading back on this thread now.
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