NFFC Financial Talk

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

I don’t understand the obsession with the club finances. Money is important but all clubs spend it by the many millions every year.

Nottingham Forest is a medium sized club with medium sized finances. There is nothing outlandish about how much the club spends. NFFC wage bill is 12th or 13th in the league.

Since these owners took charge NFFC has stayed within FFP regulations. Remember what a total car crash the finances were under Fawaz when Davies was manager when the club wildly overspent and was sanctioned with a transfer embargo.

NFFC are very frugal and financially savvy compared to those days, and budget much better than most other clubs of our size - Derby, Sheff Wed, Bristol City etc.

We only stay within budget by selling high value youth players, how long can that be guaranteed for?

That is one reason but not the only reason. I personally think it's a bit of a myth.

Matty Cash is 23 how long do you stay a youth player for? Once Cash reached a certain standard there was absolutely no way on earth that we could keep him at Forest. Once PL clubs came knocking he was on his way and we could do absolutely nothing about it except to get the best pounds possible for him which we did.

Marinakis sold Appiah who has since done bugger all in Spain.

So is it really true that Marinakis sells our high value youth players?

Doughty sold Reid, Dawson, Jenas etc. 

Fawaz sold Burke and Lascelles.

It's nothing new. People used it as a stick to beat our current owners with but where is the evidence to back it up?

[wassy04]

I don’t understand the obsession with the club finances. Money is important but all clubs spend it by the many millions every year.

Nottingham Forest is a medium sized club with medium sized finances. There is nothing outlandish about how much the club spends. NFFC wage bill is 12th or 13th in the league.

Since these owners took charge NFFC has stayed within FFP regulations. Remember what a total car crash the finances were under Fawaz when Davies was manager when the club wildly overspent and was sanctioned with a transfer embargo.

NFFC are very frugal and financially savvy compared to those days, and budget much better than most other clubs of our size - Derby, Sheff Wed, Bristol City etc.

We only stay within budget by selling high value youth players, how long can that be guaranteed for?

That is one reason but not the only reason. I personally think it's a bit of a myth.

Matty Cash is 23 how long do you stay a youth player for? Once Cash reached a certain standard there was absolutely no way on earth that we could keep him at Forest. Once PL clubs came knocking he was on his way and we could do absolutely nothing about it except to get the best pounds possible for him which we did.

Marinakis sold Appiah who has since done bugger all in Spain.

So is it really true that Marinakis sells our high value youth players?

Doughty sold Reid, Dawson, Jenas etc. 

Fawaz sold Burke and Lascelles.

It's nothing new. People used it as a stick to beat our current owners with but where is the evidence to back it up?

Also what pretty much every team without parachute payments does. Pretty much the only way to fill in the gap in an FFP world. Hopefully that changes if they ditch parachute payments.

[ThePromisedLand]

If we continue to buy 14 players ( several of doubtful quality & resale value ) in a window then we will be forced to sell our younger promising players.

Hence pressure re Worrall, Mighten et al.

It is our recruitment strategy ( eg lengthy contracts to the likes of Arter, Bong etc ) that is the problem.

And that is a stick that the owners are rightfully beaten with.

[zicorice]

I don’t understand the obsession with the club finances. Money is important but all clubs spend it by the many millions every year.

Nottingham Forest is a medium sized club with medium sized finances. There is nothing outlandish about how much the club spends. NFFC wage bill is 12th or 13th in the league.

Since these owners took charge NFFC has stayed within FFP regulations. Remember what a total car crash the finances were under Fawaz when Davies was manager when the club wildly overspent and was sanctioned with a transfer embargo.

NFFC are very frugal and financially savvy compared to those days, and budget much better than most other clubs of our size - Derby, Sheff Wed, Bristol City etc.

s
We only stay within budget by selling high value youth player, how long can that be guaranteed for?

That is one reason but not the only reason. I personally think it's a bit of a myth.

Matty Cash is 23 how long do you stay a youth player for? Once Cash reached a certain standard there was absolutely no way on earth that we could keep him at Forest. Once PL clubs came knocking he was on his way and we could do absolutely nothing about it except to get the best pounds possible for him which we did.

Marinakis sold Appiah who has since done bugger all in Spain.

So is it really true that Marinakis sells our high value youth players?

Doughty sold Reid, Dawson, Jenas etc. 

Fawaz sold Burke and Lascelles.

It's nothing new. People used it as a stick to beat our current owners with but where is the evidence to back it up?

Absolutely right and on the whole we have lost them at a good price. In some cases hindsight suggests we did rather well (Appiah, Brereton, Burke). Though some we probably undersold (under previous owners) Darlow, Lascelles, Morgan.  

The frustrating thing is the "dead certs" who you just know are going to be very good in the Prem and therefore worth big bucks once proven there can only garner a maximum of 10-15 million as Championship players.

Some of us went in record as saying Cashies value would double after one season. Ok I was wrong, probably doubled by a month into season and likely be worth almost treble after a season.

If we sell Worrall it will be similar, there is little doubt in my mind he can become an established CB at the right club. Now Burnley's 2 first choice cbs are fit, it may take a while, but it will happen.

Shame we aren't able to loan the dead certs to a prem club for a season and then get a prem price a year later-unrealistic I know.

Mighten will be worth alot in a year or so.

[wassy04]

If we continue to buy 14 players ( several of doubtful quality & resale value ) in a window then we will be forced to sell our younger promising players.

Hence pressure re Worrall, Mighten et al.

It is our recruitment strategy ( eg lengthy contracts to the likes of Arter, Bong etc ) that is the problem.

And that is a stick that the owners are rightfully beaten with.

Ok but most of those were frees or loans so will not have a huge impact financially.

Diallo - will be low wages
Ioannou - 1m - medium wages
Blackett - free - came from US so likely low wages
Soh - 5m (?), assume mainly in performance related add-ons - young, low wages
Mckenna - 4m (?) - Scotland but highly rated so probably medium wages.
Christie - loan, doubt we're paying all his wages.
Colback - free and medium wages at worst by all accounts
Cafu - loan - low wages
Arter - Shudders, any transfer fee? Very expensive miss and by far our worst piece of business.
Fred - free (?) - low wages
Knockaert - loan - doubt we're paying full wages
Taylor - free - medium wages
Guerroro - free (or loan?) - low wages
Freeman - Loan - medium wages, expect we're paying most.

I realise a lot of the above is speculation aside I'm guessing wages but the 14 signings thing irritates me. Of those 14, 4 are loans and 5 were frees. As far as I can tell we only paid fees for Mckenna, Soh, Arter (?) and Ioannou. A lot of 14 will be on low to medium wages, likely on short term contracts.

Obviously the Arter signing has gone terribly and probably cost a fortune but that aside I don't think we've dramatically overspent on predominantly frees and loans. Obviously don't know how much of the loan wages we're playing and that makes a big difference but even if its more that I'm guessing, we're not stuck with those players.

Release the 4 loans at the end of the year, along with Guerroro, Diallo and Blackett who will have short deals and we really won't have taken much on whilst making an excellent fee for Cash. I'm not saying it was great business and clearly most of the above haven't worked out. Just not the bankruptcy style business they're being accused of. There are clearly many issues at the club but I think this one is a myth, portrayed by a headline figure of 14 players. 

Can I also add we managed to shift 8 players, of which Pants, Watson, Bridcutt (probably sadly), Benny and Adomah will all have been on medium to high wages so we increased some room in wage budget too.

[Salvatore Matrecano]

There was an article recently (not sure where) that suggested the fee for Arter was £5 million. I really hope that is wrong.

[ThePromisedLand]

Hmm not sure about some of your estimates there Wassy?

As an example I suspect the wages alone of Knockaert & Christie combined are c£60k a week - paid by us.

The £14m we got for Cash ( add ons account for rest - almost certainly to be paid at a later date ) will have been more than swallowed up by transfer fees paid ( suspect your estimate at £10m probably on the high side ), wages & the pandemic.

We may have had a 12 month ‘holiday’ from FFP but Mr Marinakis is still shelling out.

And we now find ourselves yet again with a bloated squad.

My point is simple:

At some stage we have to get off this merry go round and get some realism into our approach. I am the last guy to say I don’t want better players at NG2 - but there must be a better, more sustainable way of running this football club.

[ThePromisedLand]

There was an article recently (not sure where) that suggested the fee for Arter was £5 million. I really hope that is wrong.

Ouch!!!  :@

[Reds73]

There was an article recently (not sure where) that suggested the fee for Arter was £5 million. I really hope that is wrong.

The fee was undisclosed.

He had a year left oh his deal, so I believe the fee was the remaining amount on his deal.

So we probably paid between 1m - 1.5m

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

There was an article recently (not sure where) that suggested the fee for Arter was £5 million. I really hope that is wrong.

:D No bloody way!

[Salvatore Matrecano]

Wages of the above from this website, football league. com
Most look about right although some I think are clearly wrong, Im sure Bachirou isnt on £18K and Im absolutely certain Colback is on more than £10K.

Diallo - 6k/ wk (if he actually exists)
Ioannou - 4k
Blackett - free - 8.5k
Soh - 5m (?), 5.5k
Mckenna - 4m (?) - £15k
Christie - loan, £20k
Colback - free £10k
Cafu - loan - £2.6K wow bargain!
Arter - Shudders, any transfer fee? £20k
Fred - free (?) - £18 K surely not
Knockaert - loan - £37.5k (doubt we are paying all of it)
Taylor - free - 20k
Guerroro - free (or loan?) - 12.5k
Freeman - Loan - 30k (again hopefully not paying all of it)

At least most of these are contributing in some way, we are currently pissing away over £80k a week for Clough, Hefele, Bong, Dawson and Jenkinson to sit on their arses.

[Sniffer Dog (Admin)]

I would take some of those figures with a pinch of salt.