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RE: Stevie Cooper - Salvatore Matrecano - 04-10-2022
(04-10-2022, 11:28 AM)PsychoStooge Wrote:(04-10-2022, 11:00 AM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote:(04-10-2022, 10:55 AM)Liars Bar Wrote: Greek ownership before Cooper (look away if you’re queasy)
Poor.
Forest ownership before the Greeks one breath away from being extinct (look away if you are queasy).
The Greeks saved the club from going bust, we wouldn't even have a club if Fawaz continued for another few months. I didn't see anyone else willing to buy the club at the time.
The Greeks then got us into the PL.
What is your problem with the Greeks exactly?
Lack of foresight and planning would be my main complaint, naivety in the early days can be forgiven but they should've learnt by now that you have to give things time, everything at this club is completely disposable to them, staff, players, managers... how many players signed and then booted out? Same with staff members too for example how many Heads of Communication have we had during the Greeks time here? It's a lot, it's 3 alone this season. The way they are running us right now isn't sustainable, you may argue it's the ruthless, winning nature of EM or whatever but if he carries on like this he (and therefore Forest) will win nothing and the club will gain a reputation as a toxic place to work both for staff behind the scenes and on the football side.
Marinakis saved us from extinction and got us into the PL those are facts.
Also he got through 5 managers and spent £100m on countless players and at one point we were looking at escaping the Championship in the other direction.
Last summer the penny dropped that chucking good money after bad wasnt the solution and he brought in a CEO to change the philosophy and a young manager keen to develop youth and build a team.
To throw that thinking in the bin after 8 games is plain bloody stupid.
RE: Stevie Cooper - wassy04 - 04-10-2022
(04-10-2022, 11:56 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote:(04-10-2022, 11:28 AM)PsychoStooge Wrote:(04-10-2022, 11:00 AM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote:(04-10-2022, 10:55 AM)Liars Bar Wrote: Greek ownership before Cooper (look away if you’re queasy)
Poor.
Forest ownership before the Greeks one breath away from being extinct (look away if you are queasy).
The Greeks saved the club from going bust, we wouldn't even have a club if Fawaz continued for another few months. I didn't see anyone else willing to buy the club at the time.
The Greeks then got us into the PL.
What is your problem with the Greeks exactly?
Lack of foresight and planning would be my main complaint, naivety in the early days can be forgiven but they should've learnt by now that you have to give things time, everything at this club is completely disposable to them, staff, players, managers... how many players signed and then booted out? Same with staff members too for example how many Heads of Communication have we had during the Greeks time here? It's a lot, it's 3 alone this season. The way they are running us right now isn't sustainable, you may argue it's the ruthless, winning nature of EM or whatever but if he carries on like this he (and therefore Forest) will win nothing and the club will gain a reputation as a toxic place to work both for staff behind the scenes and on the football side.
Marinakis saved us from extinction and got us into the PL those are facts.
Also he got through 5 managers and spent £100m on countless players and at one point we were looking at escaping the Championship in the other direction.
Last summer the penny dropped that chucking good money after bad wasnt the solution and he brought in a CEO to change the philosophy and a young manager keen to develop youth and build a team.
To throw that thinking in the bin after 8 games is plain bloody stupid.
Yes, you are completely right on both counts.
It's difficult because we all appreciate the willingness of EM to fund the club making massive losses over a long period of time that eventually led to a promotion. The sheer commitment to maxing out the budget obviously helped, although the funds could certainly have been spent more efficiently. It took a great manager, getting on a winning run, with a bunch of loan players (that will have cost decent money), plus a few well timed signings (Cook and Surridge) to help get us over the line.
I think we all hoped that the strategy would continue and tbf when you look at the summer business there was still an element of it. Lots of young players signed, that would potentially increase in value over time. We just had such a weak base to begin with.
For Cooper, it just must be so difficult trying to work with a squad where the majority are expecting to play. Add in the bigger signings appear to not look that great so far and it's an impossible hand.
RE: Stevie Cooper - Salvatore Matrecano - 04-10-2022
It is a very difficult but not impossible hand Wassy. Where I am struggling to defend Cooper myself (and I really really want to defend him) is that right now he is playing that hand pretty badly.
RE: Stevie Cooper - Sniffer Dog (Admin) - 04-10-2022
(04-10-2022, 11:56 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote:(04-10-2022, 11:28 AM)PsychoStooge Wrote:(04-10-2022, 11:00 AM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote:(04-10-2022, 10:55 AM)Liars Bar Wrote: Greek ownership before Cooper (look away if you’re queasy)
Poor.
Forest ownership before the Greeks one breath away from being extinct (look away if you are queasy).
The Greeks saved the club from going bust, we wouldn't even have a club if Fawaz continued for another few months. I didn't see anyone else willing to buy the club at the time.
The Greeks then got us into the PL.
What is your problem with the Greeks exactly?
Lack of foresight and planning would be my main complaint, naivety in the early days can be forgiven but they should've learnt by now that you have to give things time, everything at this club is completely disposable to them, staff, players, managers... how many players signed and then booted out? Same with staff members too for example how many Heads of Communication have we had during the Greeks time here? It's a lot, it's 3 alone this season. The way they are running us right now isn't sustainable, you may argue it's the ruthless, winning nature of EM or whatever but if he carries on like this he (and therefore Forest) will win nothing and the club will gain a reputation as a toxic place to work both for staff behind the scenes and on the football side.
Marinakis saved us from extinction and got us into the PL those are facts.
Also he got through 5 managers and spent £100m on countless players and at one point we were looking at escaping the Championship in the other direction.
Last summer the penny dropped that chucking good money after bad wasnt the solution and he brought in a CEO to change the philosophy and a young manager keen to develop youth and build a team.
To throw that thinking in the bin after 8 games is plain bloody stupid.
So you would stick with Cooper, get relegated and then he leaves because he's out of contract. What then?
RE: Stevie Cooper - wassy04 - 04-10-2022
(04-10-2022, 12:06 PM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: It is a very difficult but not impossible hand Wassy. Where I am struggling to defend Cooper myself (and I really really want to defend him) is that right now he is playing that hand pretty badly.
I think he's made some mistakes but I think another manager will/would also make mistakes, just not necessarily the same ones.
Maybe impossible is the wrong work, very bad then.
RE: Stevie Cooper - Salvatore Matrecano - 04-10-2022
I would stick with Cooper were he to sign a contract on the understanding he is allowed another crack at promotion next year yes.
The contract thing remains a mystery. You will have your opinions, my guess is that something needs to give on both sides for it to happen. It may be irrelevant now anyway.
It does make you wonder had he signed a contract in the summer the whole atmosphere at the club and in turn results would have been better.
RE: Stevie Cooper - wassy04 - 04-10-2022
(04-10-2022, 12:23 PM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote:(04-10-2022, 11:56 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote:(04-10-2022, 11:28 AM)PsychoStooge Wrote:(04-10-2022, 11:00 AM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote:(04-10-2022, 10:55 AM)Liars Bar Wrote: Greek ownership before Cooper (look away if you’re queasy)
Poor.
Forest ownership before the Greeks one breath away from being extinct (look away if you are queasy).
The Greeks saved the club from going bust, we wouldn't even have a club if Fawaz continued for another few months. I didn't see anyone else willing to buy the club at the time.
The Greeks then got us into the PL.
What is your problem with the Greeks exactly?
Lack of foresight and planning would be my main complaint, naivety in the early days can be forgiven but they should've learnt by now that you have to give things time, everything at this club is completely disposable to them, staff, players, managers... how many players signed and then booted out? Same with staff members too for example how many Heads of Communication have we had during the Greeks time here? It's a lot, it's 3 alone this season. The way they are running us right now isn't sustainable, you may argue it's the ruthless, winning nature of EM or whatever but if he carries on like this he (and therefore Forest) will win nothing and the club will gain a reputation as a toxic place to work both for staff behind the scenes and on the football side.
Marinakis saved us from extinction and got us into the PL those are facts.
Also he got through 5 managers and spent £100m on countless players and at one point we were looking at escaping the Championship in the other direction.
Last summer the penny dropped that chucking good money after bad wasnt the solution and he brought in a CEO to change the philosophy and a young manager keen to develop youth and build a team.
To throw that thinking in the bin after 8 games is plain bloody stupid.
So you would stick with Cooper, get relegated and then he leaves because he's out of contract. What then?
The contract thing is an issue, or specifically whatever caused it. It would change the decision depending on what that was. I do hope we get to find out after he's gone, although I suspect it won't be nice to hear whatever was the issue.
You are right if Cooper isn't committed to the club in the championship, it does change the whole thing quite a bit.
I still believe we have more chance of staying up with Cooper than a random new manager (if he hasn't burned his bridges already) but it does take out the long term benefits if he isn't committed to the club.
RE: Stevie Cooper - Sniffer Dog (Admin) - 04-10-2022
(04-10-2022, 12:30 PM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: I would stick with Cooper were he to sign a contract on the understanding he is allowed another crack at promotion next year yes.
The contract thing remains a mystery. You will have your opinions, my guess is that something needs to give on both sides for it to happen. It may be irrelevant now anyway.
It does make you wonder had he signed a contract in the summer the whole atmosphere at the club and in turn results would have been better.
Indeed SM it does make you wonder.
Everyone has made mistakes and everyone needs to take some part of the blame like I said this morning it's a collective thing and not down to any individual. EM, Milto, Dane, Syrianos, Cooper are all in it together and therefore must all take some responsibility for the present situation that we find ourselves in.
I keep hearing and reading about signing too many player's and some are pointing at the Greeks for that but I remember very clearly Cooper right up to the very last day of the transfer window was demanding more player's in his interviews.
RE: Stevie Cooper - wassy04 - 04-10-2022
(04-10-2022, 12:36 PM)Sniffer Dog (Admin) Wrote:(04-10-2022, 12:30 PM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: I would stick with Cooper were he to sign a contract on the understanding he is allowed another crack at promotion next year yes.
The contract thing remains a mystery. You will have your opinions, my guess is that something needs to give on both sides for it to happen. It may be irrelevant now anyway.
It does make you wonder had he signed a contract in the summer the whole atmosphere at the club and in turn results would have been better.
Indeed SM it does make you wonder.
Everyone has made mistakes and everyone needs to take some part of the blame like I said this morning it's a collective thing and not down to any individual. EM, Milto, Dane, Syrianos, Cooper are all in it together and therefore must all take some responsibility for the present situation that we find ourselves in.
I keep hearing and reading about signing too many player's and some are pointing at the Greeks for that but I remember very clearly Cooper right up to the very last day of the transfer window was demanding more player's in his interviews.
I saw that as him towing the company line and showing his loyalty to the ownership by backing their strategy. Maybe that's wildly misterpreted!
I just assume he's not a big part of the signing process. Which I wouldn't really expect, I think the top clubs models that generally only involve the manager in terms of profile of signings are the best.
RE: Stevie Cooper - wassy04 - 04-10-2022
(04-10-2022, 12:30 PM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: I would stick with Cooper were he to sign a contract on the understanding he is allowed another crack at promotion next year yes.
The contract thing remains a mystery. You will have your opinions, my guess is that something needs to give on both sides for it to happen. It may be irrelevant now anyway.
It does make you wonder had he signed a contract in the summer the whole atmosphere at the club and in turn results would have been better.
I was just thinking the same and it made me sad. Perhaps naively and possibly selfishly Cooper made a stand against something and its now given an extra stick to beat him with and work against him after an inevitable bad run.
In hindsight, unless the issue was one that he decided was terminal, he will reflect he should've signed up to give the club a boost and provide more long term stability to the squad. Mightve meant that the new guys represented his authority more too if they knew he was more committed.
RE: Stevie Cooper - Paplane - 04-10-2022
I don't accept the view that his contract situation is affecting the player's performances. It's maybe affecting fans perception of him/the club but I don't see that the players are not performing because Cooper isn't somehow committed to them/the club. All of the players will have experienced managers coming and going. It's a constant in their life.
We saw last year a group of players not performing for their manager (Hughton). In hindsight it's obvious they wanted him gone. How else can you explain the instantaneous improvement in performances last season? That's a situation which is not happening now for us imo.
RE: Stevie Cooper - Widdow - 04-10-2022
I’ve heard cooper has been saying his goodbyes to players and staff