(11-03-2021, 10:40 PM)ThePromisedLand Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 10:23 PM)Reds73 Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 08:29 PM)ozzyten10 Wrote: Bottom line- are we compliant with allowable losses for FFP? Can anyone answer?

Yes we are.

The large losses from 3 yrs ago have now dropped off.

These accounts also aren’t that actual amounts relevant for FFP either.

Academy costs, infrastructure etc doesn’t get included for FFP

We are fine in terms of FFP

Thank you.
The most important element of these results.

(12-03-2021, 12:22 AM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote: I did have the perverse thought to get through the current 'narrative' of what's happening in society at large, that football clubs could have let go of all their financially inclined posers that kick a ball around and instead?

On masse decided to play their Academies.   And in that scenario, just how well Forest would do?  And how much financially better off football would be if it could start again at 'grass roots.'

To agree to such a treaty...

As for Norwich.  At least they stick with a manager.  A plan.  They must be doing something right.

How many times have they been promoted in the last 20 years compared to Forest?

Our 'evil twin' of a club.  They, 'normal' conditions allowing, have around 30k attendance?

SA.

(12-03-2021, 07:52 AM)selborne garibaldi Wrote:

(12-03-2021, 01:00 AM)Knocker West Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 11:13 PM)selborne garibaldi Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 11:06 PM)Knocker West Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 11:01 PM)selborne garibaldi Wrote: Genius.

Not really, there's plenty of examples, I just remember that one as it was all over the financial sports news a few years ago because you actually had the banks releasing a presser to praise them & the self sustaining model that they were running at the time, & suggesting it's what other championship clubs should aspire to, & indeed as I mention earlier in the thread it is what our current owner aspires to as he & our chairman have both publicly stated.

Genius.

Norwich City lost £38M in the season 2018-2019, their first year without parachute payments.

Next?

That wasn't the years I was referring to, but if you keep searching you will find the right ones, & then when you have the answers you can come back here & discuss them with me rather than insisting your right with no evidence what so ever & demanding I go through ever more increasingly ridiculous scenario's for you.

My original point still stands & has been proven over & over again, that it is perfectly possible for a championship club to operate at a profit.

There is no law in the universe forbidding it & the basic rules of economics tell you it's entirely possible to run a company at a profit & there are examples of championship clubs running at a profit, including previously Norwich who were, as mentioned held up as an example by the banks.

This has to be my final response to you because you're just being silly now, you're clearly either looking for an argument or a way to save face & as such will clearly go on & on & on if I keep responding to you, for all your contrary nature & ridiculous demands you haven't even brought a counter argument to the table & explained why you believe it is totally impossible for a championship club to operate at a profit contrary to all evidence.

Instead of your silly demands, trying to nit pick on scenarios, rather than dealing with the core point, why not address that & offer any semblance of evidence a to why it's physically impossible for a championship club to operate at a profit & be sure to cite the actual rules & regulations that make that profit impossible, & not just your lack of imagination when it come to business.

Goodness knows what you are on about; I'm not insisting I'm right - I'm asking you to back up your claim that championship football clubs could make a profit, within the rules of FFP, and have sporting success "with a little imagination, and dreaming big". If you can't do that, then fine, but your argument is weak and your research is poor if you can't provide examples of how to do this. Hand-waving and crying that I'm being "silly", "ridiculous", "nit-pick", "impossible" won't cut it. Play the argument, not the man to borrow a phrase.

What is it that you think Forest should do now to generate £20M of profit each season, whilst building a squad capable of a top-6 finish?

It's not my rules that say that only earnings from football operations can be counted. The fact that you either don't understand that rule or want to ignore it, doesn't change the rule. 

p.s. Norwich had parachute payments for 8 years running. I've looked back at their accounts for over 10 years. You haven't even read the link I sent you.

(12-03-2021, 10:45 AM)wassy04 Wrote:

(12-03-2021, 07:52 AM)selborne garibaldi Wrote:

(12-03-2021, 01:00 AM)Knocker West Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 11:13 PM)selborne garibaldi Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 11:06 PM)Knocker West Wrote: Not really, there's plenty of examples, I just remember that one as it was all over the financial sports news a few years ago because you actually had the banks releasing a presser to praise them & the self sustaining model that they were running at the time, & suggesting it's what other championship clubs should aspire to, & indeed as I mention earlier in the thread it is what our current owner aspires to as he & our chairman have both publicly stated.

Genius.

Norwich City lost £38M in the season 2018-2019, their first year without parachute payments.

Next?

That wasn't the years I was referring to, but if you keep searching you will find the right ones, & then when you have the answers you can come back here & discuss them with me rather than insisting your right with no evidence what so ever & demanding I go through ever more increasingly ridiculous scenario's for you.

My original point still stands & has been proven over & over again, that it is perfectly possible for a championship club to operate at a profit.

There is no law in the universe forbidding it & the basic rules of economics tell you it's entirely possible to run a company at a profit & there are examples of championship clubs running at a profit, including previously Norwich who were, as mentioned held up as an example by the banks.

This has to be my final response to you because you're just being silly now, you're clearly either looking for an argument or a way to save face & as such will clearly go on & on & on if I keep responding to you, for all your contrary nature & ridiculous demands you haven't even brought a counter argument to the table & explained why you believe it is totally impossible for a championship club to operate at a profit contrary to all evidence.

Instead of your silly demands, trying to nit pick on scenarios, rather than dealing with the core point, why not address that & offer any semblance of evidence a to why it's physically impossible for a championship club to operate at a profit & be sure to cite the actual rules & regulations that make that profit impossible, & not just your lack of imagination when it come to business.

Goodness knows what you are on about; I'm not insisting I'm right - I'm asking you to back up your claim that championship football clubs could make a profit, within the rules of FFP, and have sporting success "with a little imagination, and dreaming big". If you can't do that, then fine, but your argument is weak and your research is poor if you can't provide examples of how to do this. Hand-waving and crying that I'm being "silly", "ridiculous", "nit-pick", "impossible" won't cut it. Play the argument, not the man to borrow a phrase.

What is it that you think Forest should do now to generate £20M of profit each season, whilst building a squad capable of a top-6 finish?

It's not my rules that say that only earnings from football operations can be counted. The fact that you either don't understand that rule or want to ignore it, doesn't change the rule. 

p.s. Norwich had parachute payments for 8 years running. I've looked back at their accounts for over 10 years. You haven't even read the link I sent you.

Completely agree with you Selbourne, Norwich is a terrible example. In fact they are exactly what's wrong with the system, essentially able to succeed solely by living off parachute payments. 

Until parachute payments disappear they will continue to prop up the wage market therefore force other clubs to either accept they can't compete or overspend. Pretty simple economics really. Clubs are looking our for themselves so will do what's best for them and in most cases this is spending where they can afford it.

This situation will only ever be rectified by a consensus from all clubs to restrict wages and for parachute payments to be eradicated. Otherwise the incentive to run at break even just isn't there.

(12-03-2021, 11:34 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: Running at break even in the short term probably isnt sustainable. However nor is buying a whole new squad on high wages every summer whilst continuing to pay your existing players who you have consigned to the bomb squad then paying off your manager and coaching staff because that insane gamble has backfired again. Thats why we have a £38M wage bill.

(12-03-2021, 11:56 AM)wassy04 Wrote: You make one bad signing and you're stuck with them for years.

(12-03-2021, 11:34 AM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote: Running at break even in the short term probably isnt sustainable. However nor is buying a whole new squad on high wages every summer whilst continuing to pay your existing players who you have consigned to the bomb squad then paying off your manager and coaching staff because that insane gamble has backfired again. Thats why we have a £38M wage bill.

(12-03-2021, 10:45 AM)wassy04 Wrote:

(12-03-2021, 07:52 AM)selborne garibaldi Wrote:

(12-03-2021, 01:00 AM)Knocker West Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 11:13 PM)selborne garibaldi Wrote:

(11-03-2021, 11:06 PM)Knocker West Wrote: Not really, there's plenty of examples, I just remember that one as it was all over the financial sports news a few years ago because you actually had the banks releasing a presser to praise them & the self sustaining model that they were running at the time, & suggesting it's what other championship clubs should aspire to, & indeed as I mention earlier in the thread it is what our current owner aspires to as he & our chairman have both publicly stated.

Genius.

Norwich City lost £38M in the season 2018-2019, their first year without parachute payments.

https://www.canaries.co.uk/News/2019/nov...-accounts/

Next?

That wasn't the years I was referring to, but if you keep searching you will find the right ones, & then when you have the answers you can come back here & discuss them with me rather than insisting your right with no evidence what so ever & demanding I go through ever more increasingly ridiculous scenario's for you.

My original point still stands & has been proven over & over again, that it is perfectly possible for a championship club to operate at a profit.

There is no law in the universe forbidding it & the basic rules of economics tell you it's entirely possible to run a company at a profit & there are examples of championship clubs running at a profit, including previously Norwich who were, as mentioned held up as an example by the banks.

This has to be my final response to you because you're just being silly now, you're clearly either looking for an argument or a way to save face & as such will clearly go on & on & on if I keep responding to you, for all your contrary nature & ridiculous demands you haven't even brought a counter argument to the table & explained why you believe it is totally impossible for a championship club to operate at a profit contrary to all evidence.

Instead of your silly demands, trying to nit pick on scenarios, rather than dealing with the core point, why not address that & offer any semblance of evidence a to why it's physically impossible for a championship club to operate at a profit & be sure to cite the actual rules & regulations that make that profit impossible, & not just your lack of imagination when it come to business.

Goodness knows what you are on about; I'm not insisting I'm right - I'm asking you to back up your claim that championship football clubs could make a profit, within the rules of FFP, and have sporting success "with a little imagination, and dreaming big". If you can't do that, then fine, but your argument is weak and your research is poor if you can't provide examples of how to do this. Hand-waving and crying that I'm being "silly", "ridiculous", "nit-pick", "impossible" won't cut it. Play the argument, not the man to borrow a phrase.

What is it that you think Forest should do now to generate £20M of profit each season, whilst building a squad capable of a top-6 finish?

It's not my rules that say that only earnings from football operations can be counted. The fact that you either don't understand that rule or want to ignore it, doesn't change the rule. 

p.s. Norwich had parachute payments for 8 years running. I've looked back at their accounts for over 10 years. You haven't even read the link I sent you.

Completely agree with you Selbourne, Norwich is a terrible example. In fact they are exactly what's wrong with the system, essentially able to succeed solely by living off parachute payments. 

Until parachute payments disappear they will continue to prop up the wage market therefore force other clubs to either accept they can't compete or overspend. Pretty simple economics really. Clubs are looking our for themselves so will do what's best for them and in most cases this is spending where they can afford it.

This situation will only ever be rectified by a consensus from all clubs to restrict wages and for parachute payments to be eradicated. Otherwise the incentive to run at break even just isn't there.

(11-03-2021, 10:58 PM)Sausage Roll Wrote: Football Index have suspended their trading platform.

(12-03-2021, 12:12 PM)Knocker West Wrote:

(12-03-2021, 11:56 AM)wassy04 Wrote: You make one bad signing and you're stuck with them for years.

The solution is you don't make bad deals.

There seem to be this view that there's no reason to even think about running a football club in a sensible & sustainable manner, which is exactly the thinking we got under Fawaz, yet some seem eager to return to that thinking.

The solution to bad deals is not to say debt & losses is inevitable, the solution is to cut out the bad deals.

Some would have our club bankrupt & in the Wells Road One Stop under 5's girls league if they were in charge of this club.

I can not honestly believe there is a rolling discussion here arguing against trying to be profitable or sustainable & arguing that what we've evidenced elsewhere is somehow impossible & undesirable for Nottingham Forest.

I mean literally there are posts in this thread that say that a profitable club, who ended up being promoted that season is a bad example, & we shouldn't strive for that, like in which universe is that a good answer?

Profit & promotion? Bugger that lad, we're perfectly capable of screwing up recruitment, turning a loss & staying down here!

I look forward to the EM out banners, because everyones going against his stated intention, so I'm waiting for the "Not enough Debt! Get Out!" banners at the City ground.

I sometimes feel like I'm in the twilight zone...

(12-03-2021, 12:21 PM)wassy04 Wrote: It's completely unrealistic to expect to not make bad signings.

Quote:Norwich only made profit due to parachute payments