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+--- Thread: Would You Trust Recruitment With Summer 2020? (/showthread.php?tid=680)
RE: Would You Trust Recruitment With Summer 2020? - wassy04 - 24-02-2020
(24-02-2020, 09:36 PM)Alf Wrote:(24-02-2020, 06:41 PM)optimistic_red Wrote:(24-02-2020, 06:33 PM)Alf Wrote:(24-02-2020, 04:28 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote: Recruitment has Forest 5th in the table. And, at times, banging on the door to 2nd place.
That's an improvement on last year.
They did bring in Sow and Samba. They had a better window to bring in better players.
SA.
Some good balanced posts as always SA, esp the one previous.
The thing is, for me what's improved us so much since last year has been Lamouchi & the academy players, Cash & Worrall esp.
Sow, Samba & Ribero have definitely played there part. Recruitment have definitely done OK in the summer. Not great IMO, I think Sow is brill but too injury prone, Samba their biggest hit, & Ribero good but again a little fragile.
But Jan has literally see them make the same mistakes they were making before again at a key time. Unfit or unsuitable players bought in to no immediate positive impact what-so-ever.
My opinion of their signings would be as follows:
Sow - Hit
Ribero - Hit
Samba - Hit
Silva - OK
Ameobi - OK
Chema - OK
Mir - Miss
Bostock - Miss
Semedo - Miss
Muric - Miss
Diakhabi - Miss
Da Costa - Miss
Jenks - Miss
Adomah - Miss
Benalou - Miss
Bong - Miss
Pele - Miss
Bonatini - Miss
Milosovic - Miss
That's an incredibly poor strike ratio IMO. Not all transfers work out, but I think it's fair to expect a better hit rate than that.
Surely folk can understand why I look at that list and fear us selling the likes of Cash or Worral in the Summer, to only throw money on a whole host of misses again?
Way to harsh for me. I'd have 3 or 4 Miss max. Don't want to go through player by player as it's been done to death.
In the end of the day we fans have little or no influence on players in or out. The business side to football is boring, we are told so little information. We can keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best, but that's all. Our jobis to support the players who put on the Garibaldi and enjoy the ups and downs.
Really? Which 9-10 of these 13 were hits then?
Mir - Miss
Bostock - Miss
Semedo - Miss
Muric - Miss
Diakhabi - Miss
Da Costa - Miss
Jenks - Miss
Adomah - Miss
Benalou - Miss
Bong - Miss
Pele - Miss
Bonatini - Miss
Milosovic - Miss
I think he's suggesting that a lot of these were somewhere in between.
Milo, benaloune, adomah, semedo all contributed at times, all signed for free.
Jenks not been needed due to cash so no rating for me (although he was dreadful vs Charlton) Da Costa, way too early yet to comment, same for Bong.
Agree with the rest though including Diakhaby
RE: Would You Trust Recruitment With Summer 2020? - ThePromisedLand - 24-02-2020
Well I for one would list
Albert
Benny
Milosevic
As ok.
RE: Would You Trust Recruitment With Summer 2020? - Paplane - 24-02-2020
Benaloune was ok. As was Pele. Harsh on Da Costa him having only played 15 mins for us.
RE: Would You Trust Recruitment With Summer 2020? - Strawberry Avenger - 25-02-2020
(24-02-2020, 06:33 PM)Alf Wrote:(24-02-2020, 04:28 PM)Strawberry Avenger Wrote: Recruitment has Forest 5th in the table. And, at times, banging on the door to 2nd place.
That's an improvement on last year.
They did bring in Sow and Samba. They had a better window to bring in better players.
SA.
Some good balanced posts (one tries) as always SA, esp the one previous. (Well, ty, Alf. I do enjoy reading your posts.)
The thing is, for me what's improved us so much since last year has been Lamouchi & the academy players, Cash & Worrall esp. (I think the thing that has improved Forest so much since last year has been a stronger spine spear headed by the Talismanic Sow. For which? Recruitment was responsible. Recruitment were also responsible for 'The Coach?' I include Marinakos in that recruitment process. So recruitment are responsible for the upturns in Worrall, Cash and Mr. General Watson.)
Sow, Samba & Ribero have definitely played there part. (Sow has more than played his part. Without him? Forest aren't top six. Without him? Forest didn't re-enter the top 6.) Recruitment have definitely done OK in the summer. (If you get Sow, Rib' and Samba, you've done great. Those are 3 stand out, classy players. Not many teams in teh Championship got that. Not many teams in the Championship sit 5th.) Not great IMO, I think Sow is (Great. He initial spell before injury helped Forest get top 6. His return from injury spear headed an uptick of form and a sound run that got Forest back in the top 6. A Talismanic gem of a find by recruitment. And my player of the season.) brill but too injury prone, (His game, by its very nature will destroy his body playing 3 games per week.) Samba their biggest hit (*their 2nd biggest hit. He doesn't have to do what Sow does or is as pivotal. But he is part of the strong spine behind Worrall. Sow is the 'The One.' With Grabban spearheading the spine of the team up front), & Ribero good but again a little fragile. (He's had one injury lay off? He's been class. A real LB find by Recruitment.)
But Jan has literally see them make the same mistakes (Bong is a Championship winning RB from the Premiership. Experienced. Dia. Didn't he cost Hudders 'premium coin?' Da Costa is wanted by "The Coach' himself? Ie. They went in for him before? What does the Coach know that we don't? And Young Walker provided the Killer Goal vs Leeds. So Recruitment and The Coach did well to recall him.) they were making before again at a key time. Unfit or unsuitable players bought in to no immediate positive impact what-so-ever.
My opinion of their signings would be as follows:
Sow - Hit (Player of the season. Talismanic. He's forged and re-forged a top 6 place for Forest. Forest will slowly swirl to 9th without him.)
Ribero - Hit (Class at LB.)
Samba - Hit (The best keeper in a long time. The 2nd best bit of business Forest did last Summer.)
Silva - OK (And getting better!)
Ameobi - OK. (HIT! He's been an enigmatic revelation this season. He was written off. But when he plays well, it's a a big part of Forest doing well. He's provided assists for Grabban as well as scoring some goals himself. Sure, he has the odd off game. Otherwise he'd be in the Premier with Newcastle...wait...)
Chema - OK (An absolute class act that couldn't head a ball vs Hull. But as a makeshift LB found a 'home.' But he was an unhappy player who was away from his family. What to do, eh? It was the right thing to switch an adopted LB for somebody who has battle hardened experience of winning the Championship.)
Walker. Ok. :) (Got THEE killer goal vs Leeds. If he does nothing else, he's ok in my book.)
Mir - Miss (Yes.)
Bostock - Miss (So much promise of reputation to be the 'Sow' or Watson understudy. It's all in the mind..?)
Semedo - Miss (Showed initial promise. But he hasn't played due to the almighty Sow. Then he had his 'mysterious' 'injury' after initial promise and he's been hot and cold, mainly the latter since.)
Muric - Miss (Calamity. Nonchalant. And it torpedoed his loan with Forest.)
Diakhabi - Miss (He's seemed promising so far. Erratic. But clearly a product of the window he's been signed in. He's undergoing, like Da Costa, his pre-season with Forest. How they play. That usually takes 8 weeks to get up to speed. But this is the nature of the January window. Players may not be fit, not playing or need to adapt. In January you don't have the pre-season. In the Summer you do.)
Da Costa - Miss (Not even Master Yoda can see that far into the future. He's 'only just arrived.' He's not fit. Let's give him to the end of the season before assessing?)
Jenks - Miss (He's not played because Cash has been 'transformed.' If you're not playing you're not going to be at your best. He's done ok in the matches he's played.)
Adomah - Miss (He had a decent start to the season. And he had a part to play in the last 15 minutes to hold up play or score a goal IF he wasn't starting.)
Benalou - Miss (He was part of the colossal duo of Big Ben and Mighty Milo. They were what we've been missing for years. Two CHs that could defend crosses. A complete monster at CH. Valued at £6 million? What he cost Leicester?)
Bong - Miss (Written off so soon? He's not fit because he's not playing in the 1st team. He has Championship winning experience. He's as old or younger than Watson? ;)
Pele - Miss (He was decent. A player valued at £6 million? He alright for Reading when Forest played against them and capitulated a draw from the jaws of victory. I would have had him in reserve instead of Bostock...? A summer with 'The Coach' and I think we'd a had a bit of a player there.)
Bonatini - Miss
Milosovic - Miss (The best CH we had at the club. If you're face doesn't fit or you miss the team bus, I guess you're out. Madness to let him go. He COULD head a ball, defend crosses and clean out Jack Grealish. That's how you do it my san. Class in a 'raw' Scandinavian way. Swedish. Robust but can play 'a bit.')
That's an incredibly poor (4-5 genuine misses out of...20 players. That's very good. Almost excellent.) strike ratio IMO. Not all transfers work out (clear examples of that are Mir, Muric, Bostock, Bonatini. Semedo is a puzzler. Started great then? What happened? So that could be 5 'clear' misses.,) but I think it's fair to expect a better hit rate than that. (It's fair to aim higher. And they will in time. They didn't find Sow by accident. It seems The Coach wanted him as well. So, they 'DO' know the quality of player to aim for. Sow. Rib. Samba. These aren't accidents.)
Surely folk can understand why I look at that list and fear us selling the likes of Cash or Worral in the Summer, to only throw money on a whole host of misses again? (We all want Worrall to lead us into the Premiership and play for Forest there. But because of the reality of the gulf between the Premier and Championship? 'it is what it is.' And if they have to sell one or both for £15 million each? Or £30 million for the pair, it's not reasonable to expect them to turn that money down or rational to prevent them from playing in the Premiership on 40k a week. As I'm sure most of us would like that kind of pay rise.)
The decision to sign a clearly unfit Bong who's 32 in just over a month on a 2.5 year deal is baffling. (It's not clear. LBs of his experience aren't abundant in the January window. He's got Championship winning experience. He's far better than what Forest had. Which was an unhappy player who couldn't go forward and Forest got him on a free whilst gaining a substantial fee for an unhappy player in return. Pure economic sense and footballing sense.) By the time he's fit enough to play a full game he'll be ready to retire lol. (Watson is 'old.' So is Dawson. He's about to retire?)
So, I count 15 players they've done 'Ok' with with. From this window there are 3-4 players that it's too early to write them off for the very obvious reason that it is not the Summer and they haven't had a pre-season for fitness or how Forest play. If they impress at all it will be here and there. And Dia' showed bits and pieces of his promise in the last match. But until he gets that 1st goal... Way too early to write them off.
Nobody wants to let go of ready made players. £15 million Bruce quoted Forest for a striker who is about 30 years old? That's the gap between the Premier and Forest.
Sure, we know what you're saying. But if you read that 'Danish' article was posted...you increase your recruitment strike rate over time. Once the football hierarchy is established. Once you find the Coach that fits. That doesn't all magically fall into place all at once. It takes time to find better and get better.
Forest were a club that didn't have a footballing infrastructure worthy of the name when the new owner took over. After the initial culture clash there have been clear strides of a balanced, cosmopolitan approach for the Championship.
Grabban. Sow. Rib. Samba. Supplemented with Worrall, Cash and Yates. Lolley and Watson. Fig. That's a good hit rate.
Forest sit 5th. We're there because of the Owner and that 'poor' recruitment.
Forest sit knee deep in the mire of previous owners and poor running and paying the price for the lack of vision. They're still getting out from under A high wages but mediocre result on the pitch turnover. What you're witnesses is that translation.
Dare we presume that the footballing hierarchy don't wish for more than 5th? Does Marinakis look like guy who is happy with 5th? (Are Forest fans? It's progress? But we should have been top 2 and promoted years ago.) Or that they don't want better players?
Forest sit 5th as a result of their 'growing pains.'
I shall we watching recruitment's progress (and that is what it is...far from the final destination point?) with great interest.
'Truth' depends greatly upon our point of view.
SA.
RE: Would You Trust Recruitment With Summer 2020? - Strawberry Avenger - 25-02-2020
Further more. Sow. Samba. Grabban and Car' show their prudence as well as their ambition. It is the former direction we are going. Not the latter.
Perhaps the ambitious strategy long term is to get to more players like Sow and Samba before they become costly Grabbans and Cars.
It's transition. We're 2-3 years into a 5 year plan. We're far behind but catching up quick to the likes of Leeds and WBA and Fulham and even Brentford. (They don't have an Academy?)
On current trajectory, recruitment will have Forest top 2 next season IF we don't get promoted this.
SA.
RE: Would You Trust Recruitment With Summer 2020? - Sabricadabra - 25-02-2020
How can Diakhaby, Da Costa and Bong be misses when they’ve played less than half a dozen games between them?
It’s ridiculous how quickly some of our fans write players off.
RE: Would You Trust Recruitment With Summer 2020? - Alf - 25-02-2020
(25-02-2020, 08:13 AM)Sabricadabra Wrote: How can Diakhaby, Da Costa and Bong be misses when they’ve played less than half a dozen games between them?
It’s ridiculous how quickly some of our fans write players off.
Because, like the rest of the misses, they've not achieved what they were bought here to do - namely make us a stronger squad immediately at a key time.
Building for the future with academy players? Yes, it's cheap & there's profit in it. Building for the future with 29 year olds at 2m, and 32 year oldds on 2.5 year deals? No. they need to hit the ground running.
It's all right saying "don't write these players off too early", but folk were saying that about Mir & Muric too. Now is the chance to get promoted, not next season, not in 2-3 years, not even in a few months.
If recruitment are signing players for the future when we've the chance to force our way into the autos, they're naive to what is needed and their strategy is all wrong.
To breakdown my evaluation of the players:
Silva - OK - 1 league goal all season from AM - wouldn't get in any other top 6 side first 11
Ameobi - OK - Has done brilliant for his quality. But he doesn't have enough quality, and usually can't see out 90 min either. Again, wouldn't get in any other top 6 first 11.
Chema - OK - Looked solid enough, nothing spectacular.
Mir - Miss - Totally useless. Folk also need to remember we loaned OUT Walker for him. Criminal decision by the recruitment team. If Mir was so good, why didn't we keep him?
Bostock - Miss - Totally useless. Off the pace, far leggier than Watson, a few decent forward passes is all he offers, the rest crap.
Semedo - Miss - We needed a genuine 2nd option to Sow, Semedo's not even as good as Yates. He's a liability defensively and nowhere near up to top 6 standard,
Muric - Miss - As green as they come. Laughable we even considered entrusting a promotion push to a kid like this. Awful signing, and if Samba gets injured he's the one stepping in.
Diakhabi - Miss - Has pace, will win corners, that's it. Can't cross, can't shoot, lacks arrogance/confidence. We needed a wide man like Robinson to come here and hit the ground running. This kid is at the stage where he might put in a decent performance in the last 2-3 games when there's nothing to play for.
Da Costa - Miss - Couldn't get in the team when fit, now injured. Pointless us signing a striker who can't back Grabban up at this very moment in time. Esp when he's 29 and has 1 goal in 14.
Jenks - Miss - Looks awful even after 6 months being "given time" as so many ask for
Adomah - Miss - Brill in a cup game against a load of kids, that's it. Again, if he was so good, why didn't we keep him?
Benalou - Miss - Don't like him playing at all tbh. A red card waiting to happen.
Bong - Miss - Awful. Blowing after 30min, looks like he needs a full pre-season and then some games to be ready to play. Will prob be fully match fit by the time he's 33
Pele - Miss - So good he's helping Reading fly up to 16th. Yet again, if he was so good, why didn't we keep him?
Bonatini - Miss - Ye gads. Poor Wolves.
Milosovic - Miss - "Face doesn't fit"? Bad attitude, couldn't work under several managers, recruitment should have been aware of this before they signed him.
Folk VASTLY underestimate how much Lamouchi is getting from these players with this system. A system which doesn't work at home because that's when we need quality players to break down teams. Quality we don't have because of who we've recruited (or failed to recruit)
I'd buy into the "we're growing a club" ethos more if every year we didn't sell off players like we have Osborn & Appiah this year. But to me it appears as if all we're actually doing is selling off talent, to bring in loads of sub-standard players who get moved on the following season.
Let's see how many of these "awesome signings" are still here in a year or two, once they've been given the time folk crave. My money's on very few. Recruitment themselves admit they're failings by moving players out they bought in the window before lol.
All we're doing is cycling crap players at the expense of our own quality sales. I wasn't too bothered before because we'd not clubs sniffing round the likes of Cash & Worrall, but selling them in the Summer frightens me when I look at what's deemed good enough to replace them.
If you want a look into our future, look at Jenks and he's the man deemed good enough to challenge Cash for a first team place. Now we'll likely be getting another one like that if Cash goes in the Summer.
Mir in to replace Walker
Jenks in to be first choice RB when Darikwa got injured, and who we'd be relying on if Lamouchi hadn't worked miracles with Cash
Semedo in to cover Sow, but he's not even better than Yates
Bong in to replace Chema as backup to Yuri
Muric in to replace Pantillimon
etc. etc.
It's scary where things could go if they're given another window & we sell key players.
RE: Would You Trust Recruitment With Summer 2020? - Sniffer Dog (Admin) - 25-02-2020
I am scratching my head how with all these so called shit players we are having our best season for years and sitting pretty in a play off place?
Can anyone enlighten me :huh:
RE: Would You Trust Recruitment With Summer 2020? - GaribaldiRED - 25-02-2020
This thread has become beyond ridiculous now. Some of the arguments are not rooted in reality at all. Is it time to just let it die? It certainly doesn't invite to any good discussions.
RE: Would You Trust Recruitment With Summer 2020? - Alf - 25-02-2020
(25-02-2020, 09:47 AM)Sniffer Dog Wrote: I am scratching my head how with all these so called S**t players we are having our best season for years and sitting pretty in a play off place?
Can anyone enlighten me :huh:
Said it several times already:
Brilliant management
Brilliant academy products
Good signings from AK in Watson, Lolley, Grabban, Figs, & Dawson etc..
Was recruitment under Marthur amazing? No. Yet we made the playoffs under Hart.
You only have to look at what happened after the Paul Hart season to see what awaits us if we continue with our current methods IMO.
RE: Would You Trust Recruitment With Summer 2020? - Sniffer Dog (Admin) - 25-02-2020
(25-02-2020, 10:00 AM)Alf Wrote:(25-02-2020, 09:47 AM)Sniffer Dog Wrote: I am scratching my head how with all these so called S**t players we are having our best season for years and sitting pretty in a play off place?
Can anyone enlighten me :huh:
Said it several times already:
Brilliant management
Brilliant academy products
Good signings from AK in Watson, Lolley, Grabban, Figs, & Dawson etc..
Was recruitment under Marthur amazing? No. Yet we made the playoffs under Hart.
You only have to look at what happened after the Paul Hart season to see what awaits us if we continue with our current methods IMO.
Yeah yeah Alf, right oh, if you say so.
I agree with GaribaldiRed. It's getting repetitive and boring and is heading for a lock up.
RE: Would You Trust Recruitment With Summer 2020? - Frochy1977 - 25-02-2020
(25-02-2020, 09:58 AM)GaribaldiRED Wrote: This thread has become beyond ridiculous now. Some of the arguments are not rooted in reality at all. Is it time to just let it die? It certainly doesn't invite to any good discussions.
I've just scrolled through. If you have read one post you have read them all. It's not up to this forums usual very high standard.