(12-03-2023, 08:06 AM)JWJW Wrote: For example - You have to question training methods........ how come we lose the ball so much at our throw ins......but opposition teams rarely lose the ball at their throw ins ?

Is this down to injuries ?

(12-03-2023, 07:59 AM)Paplane Wrote: We just lack intensity in our away games Zico. As an away fan you can sing and support and us non attending fans can watch at home and support in our own way but the basic fact is that we're a million miles away from being at the required level to compete in games away from home. Yes, we got beat in a top 4 club's stadium, I agree we can expect little else in reality, but is it not fair to expect the players to be in a mindset where they might compete and hope and fight to get a point? We lost a goal after 2 minutes yesterday for gods sake. It was an abject performance and only looked better in the 2nd half when Spurs were in cruise control. I'm telling you this needs correcting fast because if our home form dips, which it could essily do, then we're easily the worst side in the division again, and it's been a few months since that's been the case.

(12-03-2023, 09:41 AM)Mist From The Trent Wrote: The thing that annoys me is that Bournemouth go away to Arsenal and create chances and look dangerous. Cooper is 100x the manager O'Neil is and I assume most would take our squad over Bournemouths.
I feel the start of the season has made Cooper over cautious. We attack with 3 players, the midfield never get up to support.
On the flip side, if we had Boly/Niakhate/Yates/Kouyate/Awoniyi, would we feel more secure to try and take the game to opponents more?
I think Cooper will keep us up, but it's going to be bloody close.

(12-03-2023, 09:45 AM)wassy04 Wrote:

(12-03-2023, 07:59 AM)Paplane Wrote: We just lack intensity in our away games Zico. As an away fan you can sing and support and us non attending fans can watch at home and support in our own way but the basic fact is that we're a million miles away from being at the required level to compete in games away from home. Yes, we got beat in a top 4 club's stadium, I agree we can expect little else in reality, but is it not fair to expect the players to be in a mindset where they might compete and hope and fight to get a point? We lost a goal after 2 minutes yesterday for gods sake. It was an abject performance and only looked better in the 2nd half when Spurs were in cruise control. I'm telling you this needs correcting fast because if our home form dips, which it could essily do, then we're easily the worst side in the division again, and it's been a few months since that's been the case.

We were a missed pen away from 3-2 in the actual game. I would consider that a decent fight in a game we were clearly outmatched.

(11-03-2023, 10:56 PM)zicorice Wrote: Took a deep breath before coming on here to read comments. Firstly kudos to Wassy and to some extent Pap for taking a realistic view of things. Hope Sniff doesn't ban me or anything but I have to say the next thing.

Yes we were awful today, probably a 2/10 mostly for our 2nd half efforts, but our supporters were fantastic again-at least those who got tickets were -plus Wassy and Pap (plus I'm sure a few others who kept there counsel).. Some of the absolute b0110x and ridiculous expectations of some "fans" in our 1st season up here, with a string of injuries and lack of alternatives is fuck1ng infuriating. Turning off at HT (glad 3k didn't just f@ck off at HT), criticism of certain players who did give us a spark 2nd half - yes crap pen, but Ayew was decent.  I've seen people crying out for Mangala to start in a more attacking midfield....How did that go? MGW for England? (I love him btw) his worst game in a red shirt so far- it happens. "Should have played this formation or that formation.." total shite. One person says we should have played 433..we f@cking were trying too.

I have got to the stage that I can read some comments and know who wrote it before looking who the author is. Standard abuse for Worrall (who the f@(k else should play there? Or do you advocate a new formation that works on some bullsh1t computer game with Felipe on his own?)  The Jonno critics have turned a 180, we are now fu(ked if he's injured instead of drop him to the bench. 

Someone last season identified that comments were alot more numerous when we lose - which, surprise surprise we are doing much more of this season, especially away.

I am a supporter, not a happy clapper or fan and I get angry and annoyed at times, but this season Cooper and the boys have my unconditional support in the hope we finish 17th or above. In a difficult period or "moment" they need that more than ever.  I just hope Joe or Jesse and Co don't read any forums.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, I get that, but if we ate to stay up  every player in a red shirt needs as much support and positivity as possible. Not all this "Championship standard at best" stuff, when we get rinsed by a top 4 team.

That's my opinion and I don't need a fu(King tin hat for saying so. Get behind the boys, they and Cooper are trying to mow a lawn with a pair of scissors.

Positives
- we scored away
- Incredible away support

Negatives
- Lots of other stuff.

(12-03-2023, 12:07 AM)zicorice Wrote:

(11-03-2023, 11:47 PM)Salvatore Matrecano Wrote:

(11-03-2023, 10:56 PM)zicorice Wrote: Took a deep breath before coming on here to read comments. Firstly kudos to Wassy and to some extent Pap for taking a realistic view of things. Hope Sniff doesn't ban me or anything but I have to say the next thing.

Yes we were awful today, probably a 2/10 mostly for our 2nd half efforts, but our supporters were fantastic again-at least those who got tickets were -plus Wassy and Pap (plus I'm sure a few others who kept there counsel).. Some of the absolute b0110x and ridiculous expectations of some "fans" in our 1st season up here, with a string of injuries and lack of alternatives is fuck1ng infuriating. Turning off at HT (glad 3k didn't just f@ck off at HT), criticism of certain players who did give us a spark 2nd half - yes crap pen, but Ayew was decent.  I've seen people crying out for Mangala to start in a more attacking midfield....How did that go? MGW for England? (I love him btw) his worst game in a red shirt so far- it happens. "Should have played this formation or that formation.." total shite. One person says we should have played 433..we f@cking were trying too.

I have got to the stage that I can read some comments and know who wrote it before looking who the author is. Standard abuse for Worrall (who the f@(k else should play there? Or do you advocate a new formation that works on some bullsh1t computer game with Felipe on his own?)  The Jonno critics have turned a 180, we are now fu(ked if he's injured instead of drop him to the bench. 

Someone last season identified that comments were alot more numerous when we lose - which, surprise surprise we are doing much more of this season, especially away.

I am a supporter, not a happy clapper or fan and I get angry and annoyed at times, but this season Cooper and the boys have my unconditional support in the hope we finish 17th or above. In a difficult period or "moment" they need that more than ever.  I just hope Joe or Jesse and Co don't read any forums.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, I get that, but if we ate to stay up  every player in a red shirt needs as much support and positivity as possible. Not all this "Championship standard at best" stuff, when we get rinsed by a top 4 team.

That's my opinion and I don't need a fu(King tin hat for saying so. Get behind the boys, they and Cooper are trying to mow a lawn with a pair of scissors.

Positives
- we scored away
- Incredible away support

Negatives
- Lots of other stuff.

For a start Zico well done for supporting the team away, its been a thankless task this year and we could hear Forest fans though out the game. Yes the fans do need to stick together and I think we. Have do e in the stadium home and away.

However, this is a football discussion forum. What do you want us to discuss when we witness that sort of thing?
I try to say things as I see them. I find the selection of Ayew baffling but accept apart from the penalty he played his part well, he did so vs Everton last week too. He remains a limited player though.

Accept it’s annoying when some people have clearly made their mind up that player x is S**t before he kicks a ball. Worrall the biggest scapegoat but its hard to defend him when he makes a half hearted attempt for the first goal and gives away a pen for the 2nd. In mitigation he made a brilliant clearance just before the 3rd goal only his teammates missed the opportunity to complete the job. Then he scores a consolation so I think he did as well as anyone on the day.
Jesse? I want to give the guy a chance but tell me something good he did?

But yeah there are a lot more comments on here when we lose that much is true.

It's the tone of some comments. Football discussion is fine, words are powerful. Worrall should have done better with 2nd goal, is a bit different- at this point when we don't have other alternatives- to Championship player etc...

Heard it all with Yates - except he was league 1 at best the online experts kept saying. I think constructive debate is one thing but the unrealistic expectations followed by over the top melt downs following a defeat to a top 4 team away is daft.

I like this forum and hope that "balance" is found again. We are as expected in a Dog fight. I try to be balanced, positive and negative. But anything I say in a public forum, I say as if the people I am talking about would be reading...(Jonno or Yatesy will you marry my daughter btw?).

(12-03-2023, 09:50 AM)Paplane Wrote:

(12-03-2023, 09:45 AM)wassy04 Wrote:

(12-03-2023, 07:59 AM)Paplane Wrote: We just lack intensity in our away games Zico. As an away fan you can sing and support and us non attending fans can watch at home and support in our own way but the basic fact is that we're a million miles away from being at the required level to compete in games away from home. Yes, we got beat in a top 4 club's stadium, I agree we can expect little else in reality, but is it not fair to expect the players to be in a mindset where they might compete and hope and fight to get a point? We lost a goal after 2 minutes yesterday for gods sake. It was an abject performance and only looked better in the 2nd half when Spurs were in cruise control. I'm telling you this needs correcting fast because if our home form dips, which it could essily do, then we're easily the worst side in the division again, and it's been a few months since that's been the case.

We were a missed pen away from 3-2 in the actual game. I would consider that a decent fight in a game we were clearly outmatched.

Come on Wassy, you know we were a million miles away yesterday. Lets not dress it up any other way.

(12-03-2023, 09:49 AM)wassy04 Wrote:

(12-03-2023, 09:41 AM)Mist From The Trent Wrote: The thing that annoys me is that Bournemouth go away to Arsenal and create chances and look dangerous. Cooper is 100x the manager O'Neil is and I assume most would take our squad over Bournemouths.
I feel the start of the season has made Cooper over cautious. We attack with 3 players, the midfield never get up to support.
On the flip side, if we had Boly/Niakhate/Yates/Kouyate/Awoniyi, would we feel more secure to try and take the game to opponents more?
I think Cooper will keep us up, but it's going to be bloody close.

Why do you presume we have a better team than Bournemouth? They spent some big money in January, got Solanke back from injury (who is definitely better than any striker we have) Anthony and Ouattara look quality. Lerma we were keen on, Billing is highly rated. Maybe we're stronger at full back (I don't know their full backs).

Either way at worst we're a very similar level to them. Bournemouth were held back by Parker last year too and have since improved the team. It's just a tough league this year, no whipping boys is making it hard to stay up.

(12-03-2023, 10:45 AM)DR Forest Wrote: Critical discussion is warranted; abuse without due consideration isn’t.

Let’s take worral. I love joe; he’s one of our own and I was looking forward to him doubling the £12m price tag he had last season. But it’s not happened. Whilst it’s unfair to chastise him for giving away the penalty in itself, it’s not unfair to see/accept/discuss the weakness/reason for giving it away (ie being his lack of pace of foot and mind). It’s no coincidence the club have been linked with several CB’s, all 6’3” plus and quick. He’s not been in the side when we’ve had others available and it’s the reality that atm he’s not in the starting 11 if Niakhate and McKenna are back soon. If we stay up then I think joe, Scott and cook will be gone for the same reason.

Likewise, I don’t think Brennan is the new messiah just yet; he did get the ball up top yesterday but lost it several times trying to beat his man. However, he’s our only outlet and we are seriously compromised if he gets injured. I hope we don’t regret not getting in another quick forward in January. If I was cooper I’d be massaging Dennis’s ego as he’s the only thing we have remotely similar.

And finally cooper.
Like brennan, he’s new to this level. He’s entitled to have time to learn the league.
But notwithstanding that general position, it has to be appreciated just how many injuries we’ve had to important players in important positions.

We are the worst team in this league. It’s not unexpected but it’s a fact. We bought some decent players and we are where we are due to cooper not in spite of him. Injuries to some/many of those players has massively impacted what he can do tactically and the options he has. Criticism is largely unjustified atm because of this. We need those players back and then see how we get on after the international break. That will be the true litmus test of this squad and cooper.